Lord of the Rings TV Series Purchased by Amazon

[Syegfryed]

It isn't hiding anything about the show

It is, every time a critic about the show is presented goober will cry "b-b-b-but in the movies!!" in a vain tentative to dismiss the critic

When Aragorn showed up to pelennor fields in the movies he only had two or three ships. In the books he had more then that along with a bunch of others. Peter Jackson cut it down and didn't show the entire pirate fleet. They were presumably present because how would three ships of pirates make a difference at pelennor fields?

What the fuck are you talking about, in the movie he use the army of the dead to take the ships and fight the battle

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Great performance for the most expensive tv show ever.

Do you honestly believe that?

Yeah, it is a fact proven by the people.

You've even created a council, and forum signature

I mean, its the truth, people defend bad shows all the time, this included

[SilverLion]

This is you being quite dismissive of two things with quite a lot more value then "Muh feelings".

1) The show cost 1 BILLION Dollars. Guess whose money that is? Yes, the money of the people with a Prime sub. They are absolutely justified to demand better quality for the money they spend or cancel their subs if Amazon just keeps throwing money out of the window. It's like you are saying people should shut up when politicians are throwing their taxes out the window.

2) Tolkiens works are THE fantasy works. They are not some book written by some random author with a fanbase of a couple of thousand. These books are the origin of almost all fantasy tropes we know today. Take for example the entirety of the Warcraft universe or a huuuuuge thing like the D&D lore, they are both built on Tolkiens basis. All of this started with the Professor.
Tolkien has thus influenced a very big part of our western culture and for that he and his work absolutely deserve respect.
This show and the showrunners do not have any respect and that is something they absolutely need to be called out for.

I'm sorry, no. None of this is equivalent to taxes. You've once again, proved my point. This is leisure. You have the option of just taking your leisure elsewhere. You do not have the option to not pay taxes.

On your second point, I just don't really care. I don't put people on a pedestal for anything they do, no matter how influential. I don't "respect" a franchise just because of its reach. It's not a person. Hell I respect Tolkien more as a scholar than an author, because quite frankly he was a better one, and that's saying a lot because he was pretty good as an author too. But I don't respect "his works" as some ethereal entity that is deserving on its own because of pedigree. If you do, that's fine, but expecting everyone else to is ridiculous. And even if you do, that still doesn't justify being nasty. So the point remains.

No one is acting like a lunatic, you are using a fallacy to dismiss other people criticism appealing to ridicule

In the other post you tried to have the moral high ground by calling yourself "an grown up adult", this is also show the condescending attitude towards people by dismissing their opinion as childish.

Which is funny to comment about "dismiss my feelings" when the whole point of people defending this garbage is because they have this mindset that if they like something, IT CANT BE BAD: how could I like something that isn't good? no, other people are wrong! something based entirely on feelings

This entire post is kind of lunacy, so I guess checkmate yourself for own-goaling. If you act like a child, you get treated like a child. Maybe engage in discourse that isn't just rage baiting and I might take what you say seriously.

[Raisei]

I'm sorry, no. None of this is equivalent to taxes. You've once again, proved my point. This is leisure. You have the option of just taking your leisure elsewhere. You do not have the option to not pay taxes.

So people should always be okay with the product they receive for their money, no matter if it is garbage? Heard of a thing called "refund" or "customer complaint"?

On your second point, I just don't really care.

In this case you have no horse in this race and I have no clue why you are even chiming in on this. I personally consider this as part of common knowledge and a well-rounded education. Especially in front of all the shit we are being given by Hollywood in the last decade or so. I demand people to do better because I consider culture and even pop culture as a very important thing. You do not. I suppose we will not agree.

[Syegfryed]

This entire post is kind of lunacy, so I guess checkmate yourself for own-goaling. If you act like a child, you get treated like a child. Maybe engage in discourse that isn't just rage baiting and I might take what you say seriously.

Yet again another fallacious argument who didn't address anything and once again try to claim the moral high ground.

Criticising the show is not childish, you just don't have what it take to 1.Accept the critics, 2.Refute then, sou you rely on fallacies to dismiss it by attacking the people. And that is again, very funny from someone who claim to be an grow adult, as you should be aware, grow adults don't need to say they are grow adults.

So, someone stating to be adult and calling other people kids.... not very mature and might look like an youngster roleplaying as an adult, or you just are that full of yourself which is honestly worse

[rhorle]

It is, every time a critic about the show is presented goober will cry "b-b-b-but in the movies!!" in a vain tentative to dismiss the critic

You mean like you do when something postive is posted? You always call Amazon, and other places, liars unless the numbers/stuff is negative. Then they are telling the truth.

What the fuck are you talking about, in the movie he use the army of the dead to take the ships and fight the battle

Peter Jackson represented the Corsair fleet from the books as two or three ships. He left out the Gondor troops from the south. He left out the full fleet. He cut it down to just essentials. So why isn't he bad for not showing the full amount from the books? Or not showing a full fleet supporting Sauron?

[bledgor]

You've directly proven my point. And you're attacking a point I didn't make. Every time someone says "maybe don't act like a lunatic about something that isn't really a big deal", the response is "DON'T DISMISS MY FEELINGS".

You say you can be an adult but I don't buy that. We tell small children that "accidents happen". "Sometimes stuff doesn't go how we wont." We say "feel your feelings, be upset, cry. But don't go slapping toys out of other people's hands because you're upset." This is where we are. Slapping toys out of other people's hands because some folks didn't get what they wanted. It's dishonest. You claimed that people are being called bigots for their admittedly bigoted criticism? You quite literally just argued for the ability to say whatever you want, however you want to, under the guise of criticism and that criticism, regardless of how valid or not valid, needs to be respected.

So no, it's not gate keeping to call out people being nasty or excessive. It's called setting limits and holding people who cross them to account.

Lastly, you said "that should make anyone angry" that so much potential was squandered. You're proving my point yet again. No, it doesn't make me angry. Why? Because as much as I love the Legendarium, none of this affects my daily life. There are things in my life that deserve actual rage and ferocity and a mid TV show being mid isn't one of them. I don't care if they lied about the source material. I don't care about holding TV exec money men to account because you're not going to stop them from lying in the future. You won't increase the standards of your TV shows in the future. It serves no purpose beyond just venting frustration. On top of that, it's absolutely untrue that if this show fails, that nobody else will try again later. No way. They'll try again eventually, maybe 10 years, maybe be more, may be less, but this stuff never leaves the zeitgeist.

No matter which way you slice this, defending over reactions as reasonable isn't a flex. And calling out overreactions isn't gate keeping. If children can learn to be upset about their little lives and not inflicting their own frustration on others, adults can too. Never once did I claim you're not allowed to be upset. I did say that acting like you were personally slighted, which you absolutely do in your post, shouldn't be taken seriously. You weren't harmed. Nothing changes. A mid show was mid. The earth still turns. Disappointing? Sure, but it's time to be grown ups, let it go and walk away.

Bro you make so much shit up, its sad. I have posted dozens of criticisms that have nothing to do with race, sex or creed, but just content of the story/dialogue. So when people have criticism we aren't allowed to post now? Thats being a child? Think you might need to look inwards. I also never said people can make any criticisms, just that people do have valid criticisms they should be able to espouse without people like you saying nuh uh.

You are turbo gate keeping, have some people been nasty, sure, but the majority have pointed out very valid criticisms, how about we set a limit to the bullshit people can change in an adaptation before its no longer able to be labeled an adaptation? How many characters have to be butchered, storylines altered, dialogue destroyed before it crosses the line of adaptation to fan fic?

Okay, it can make you not angry, you don't get to gatekeep it making others angry. For some people stories resonant with them, help them, inspires them. So when it gets butchered they have lost something. Calling out people for making a shit product IS in fact how you get changes, or we just going to ignore what happened with the Sonic movie? You think things magically get better if you are silent? You can point out flaws, and hope that people in the future notice this feedback, notice that having cringe dialogue, characters that are just plain unlikeable as your main character is a recipe for failure.

On top of that I never said anything about never trying stories like this in the future, I said it would be less likely, and have a lower budget as a result, which they will. Companies wont piss away money forever at a growing pace if it doesn't bring returns.

Again gatekeeping, you say over reaction, I say proper reaction. I think you coming in here, saying people are overreacting and then saying you don't really care is the most cop out bullshit defense there is. You are saying you don't care but then continuing to engage people that do care and saying they are rage babies. That is dismissive, and frankly proof you do in fact care at least a bit. You know how you get change, by communicating. You know how things stay the same? People hide how they feel.

I feel personally slighted by people like you, who come in here and judge people from your high horse, saying stop crying, but then you cry about them. I'm not saying I'm harmed, I am saying they fucked up. I called bullshit, because it is bullshit. Guess what, the entire human race could die, and the world still turns. Disappointing? Sure, but it's time to realize that whataboutisms are not a defensive, that being a grown up isn't some narrow definition that you get to define, and if this conversation actually doesn't matter to you, YOU are free to walk away, and let people passionate about it talk.

[Syegfryed]

You mean like you do when something postive is posted?

No, because the show doesn't have that many positive points to talk about either

You always call Amazon, and other places, liars unless the numbers/stuff is negative. Then they are telling the truth.

Amazon is lying about their numbers yes

Peter Jackson represented the Corsair fleet from the books as two or three ships. He left out the Gondor troops from the south. He left out the full fleet. He cut it down to just essentials. So why isn't he bad for not showing the full amount from the books? Or not showing a full fleet supporting Sauron?

Anyone who watched the movie knows the ships doesn't matter, because in the movie there is no gondor troops, he didn't free people to use then in the battle, he use the army of the dead to kill everyone and to help in the battle, therefore no more ships are needed

In the show there are only three ships THE ENTIRE TIME, your asinine comparison make no sense and its laughable that you are trying to compare the two.

[rhorle]

Amazon is lying about their numbers yes

And yet when they say something that is negative you think they are telling the truth. Weird how that works. You see anything positive as a lie and anything negative as the truth.

[Syegfryed]

And yet when they say something that is negative you think they are telling the truth. Weird how that works. You see anything positive as a lie and anything negative as the truth.

i never believe in anything amazon say related to their numbers viewers at face value, never, unless it is proven or related to other sources, you are making that up

And thats pretty funny since amazon never said anything negative about the show, unless you wanna come up with the view retaining numbers, which i still think its much lower

[rogoth]

Cheers! I'm just a grown adult who doesn't suffer from baby rage whenever a piece of media doesn't suit me. My entire identity isn't absorbed by a dead guy, or who I was 25 years ago.

There's a time and a place to holding something dear to your heart and having it be meaningful, but we've long lost the plot on that. We're so deep in the "I hate this, it's a personal attack on everything I stand for" brain rot when it's as simple as "Oh, no thanks, I'll stick with X"

I love Resident Evil. I can't imagine getting this upset over the god awful films. They're terrible. But I just don't watch them. (And God, the Monster Hunter film was worse than all of RoP combined).

I would agree with your comment if it wasn't for the access media and everyone who has been paid to push out the propaganda posts all over Facebook/Instagram/Twitter etc that this show is the best thing since sliced bread, and just to provide with a small modicum of context since you clearly came to this thread late, the sheer vitriol I have for the white knight brigadiers and the alphabet mafia who populate this thread defending this show as some kind of modern-day epic when it's very clearly demonstratable that it is anything but that, it's clearly a bottom of the barrel money laundering scheme masquerading as badly written fan fiction of the tallest order, and I would LOVE nothing more than to tune this mess out and ignore it. sadly those aforementioned individuals will not let it go quietly, they keep pushing the narrative that it's fabulous cinema and needs to be rewarded with all the accolades and everything possible to prove just how good it is, so of course I'm going to push back against such delusion when it's something that shaped my childhood and young adult life and is very dear to me as a place to escape the monotonous and dreary day to day of modern life, but now those progressive mentally ill individuals want to worm their way into everybody's business under the guise of 'inclusion' and burn the entire place down and piss on the ashes, as has been seen with myriad examples in the gaming space, the backlash has begun and long may it continue so that everything that is like this pile of trash gets called out for what it is, and hopefully the studios get the message and start making proper entertainment again instead of pushing some kind of mentally deluded agenda onto people.

[rhorle]

i never believe in anything amazon say related to their numbers viewers at face value, never, unless it is proven or related to other sources, you are making that up

How can they manipulate sales in books? its not like they are saying shit about pages read rofl. they are using the increase on sales in the book to pretend it was due to the show success, when the correlation is the opposite.

In the past you accepted their word about book sales increasing. You didn't accept that it was because of Rings of Power however. Like I said when it is something that supports your views they are not lying about or manipulating the info. If it is something that could be a positive for the show then Amazon is always lying or manipulating the data.

[VMSmith]

Haven't watched it so I can't say much, but this "Grand Elf" thingie sounds about as wanted as Disney giving us the origin of the name "Han Solo" ... i.e. just leave it alone, this is dumb.

It's the danger of doing prequels, writers feel compelled to explain things that never needed explaining and make them worse in the process.

[Biomega]

Haven't watched it so I can't say much, but this "Grand Elf" thingie sounds about as wanted as Disney giving us the origin of the name "Han Solo" ... i.e. just leave it alone, this is dumb.

It's the danger of doing prequels, writers feel compelled to explain things that never needed explaining and make them worse in the process.

It's also quite frankly insulting when using a work by an expert philologist who had actual etymologies for those names. Like there's this ONE thing that Tolkien was meticulous about, and they go "lul sounds like Grand Elf, right?" like a bunch of imbeciles.

[Syegfryed]

Apparently amazon is trying to bribe Brazilian users to watch the show, giving a discount cupom to buy in their site, if you watch at least one episode of rings of power

Hilarious tbh, this is a tentative to inflate the minutes watched, but nah, not going to watch it

In the past you accepted their word about book sales increasing. You didn't accept that it was because of Rings of Power however. Like I said when it is something that supports your views they are not lying about or manipulating the info. If it is something that could be a positive for the show then Amazon is always lying or manipulating the data.

I literally said about VIWERS numbers, and you are bringing up book sale, try to use your noodle and figure it yourself why your comparison is dumb

[rhorle]

It's also quite frankly insulting when using a work by an expert philologist who had actual etymologies for those names. Like there's this ONE thing that Tolkien was meticulous about, and they go "lul sounds like Grand Elf, right?" like a bunch of imbeciles.

Tolkien hid jokes in his names though. Banazir means simple minded and is the name of Samwise in Hobbitish. His Sindarin name is Perhael which means half-wise. Sam is wise, half-wise, and simple minded at all at once. There is also the part where he gives Frodo the name "of the nine fingers". The dwarven name for Gandalf could be Staff-man which seems like an inside joke. Since Norse dark elves are pretty much dwarves and Gandalf is inspired by the norse word for Staff-elf. Shelob is She-spider.

The show might be less eloquent and more open about the jokes but it is most certainly in the spirit of Tolkien.

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Apparently amazon is trying to bribe Brazilian users to watch the show, giving a discount cupom to buy in their site, if you watch at least one episode of rings of power

Are you going off of the rumor from 2022? The source for the Season 1 rumor of a coupon promotion came from Boundingintocomics which is a known hate-monger.

Saying that Amazon can't lie for books but will lie for shows is evidence that you pick and choose when they lie based on what narrative you need to support.

[Adamas102]

'Aulë governed the substances of the Ambar and he delighted in all works and crafts all of which he was master, from small works of skin to the forging of all lands and mountains and basins of the sea. He made the rocks, the gems and all minerals.'

I bolded the important part because you have shown you lack the necessary reading skills to understand what is written properly, so to help with that I made sure to highlight the important part, why is it important? this small excerpt is taken directly from the Silmarillion, with regards to his crafting of the dwarves, they were all made with his view of himself as the blueprint for what dwarves should look like, with regards to his appearance it's of a muscular man, with flowing white hair and a well knotted long flowing beard, the dwarves as a homage to their creator exalt their beards as a sign of reverence to aule, meaning that dwarves value their beards EXTREMELY highly.

Oh, this is great. Don't worry, no mental gymnastics necessary (you already took care of those). Just a simple, thorough trouncing of your laughably misinformed position.

To start with THAT IS NOT A QUOTE FROM THE SILMARILLION. You copy/pasted that from the Tolkien Gateway wiki entry on Aule. Since you lack the necessary reading skills you didn't notice that that line isn't a direct quote and instead has a footnote to it referencing back to the Of the Valar section of the Valaquenta chapter in the Silmarillion (which I have open here in front of me). Do you actually have your own copy? Because if you did, you could have simply looked at that section yourself and seen that the "works of skin" part is actually a typo on the website. The ACTUAL referenced line is as follows:

"He is a smith and a master of all crafts, and he delights in works of skill, however small, as much as in the mighty building of old."

Hell, the term "Ambar" isn't even used in the Silmarillion to refer to Earth. The only mention I can find of its use like that is the "Atlas of Middle-earth" by Karen Fonstad.

Secondly, despite you doubling down on it, there is absolutely no reference to any preferred fana for Aule. Zero. Zilch. No mention of a muscular body, or even a beard. In the Ainulindale it's noted that the Valar could don appearances based on what they'd seen of the Children in the Vision of Iluvatar. It of course notes that they do not need these forms, and can take them on, change them, or cast them off like clothing. Aule certainly didn't need to take form in order to create, and there's certainly no mention of him molding dwarfs using a preferred shape that he had taken onto himself.

There is a written depiction of Aule that is as follows: "Aulë's seven-foot-tall fana is stout and strong. His long braided hair, shaggy black beard, and red-brown skin give him the image of a huge Dwarf." Perhaps that's where you got the whole "well knotted flowing beard" thing, BUT that description comes from the Middle-earth Role Playing game and is NOT based on anything Tolkien wrote. I think you like to call that sort of stuff "fan fiction".

Thirdly, if you go out and buy a copy of the Silmarillion, you can go to the Chapter titled 'Of Aule and Yavanna' to get a more in depth recounting of the creation of the dwarves. It's never said that Aule shaped them in the form that he himself took since at this time he needed no humanoid form to take. The passages note that he wanted these creatures to be "strong and unyielding" since they would be entering a world under the "power of Melkor". The implication is that he shaped the dwarves with their stout physicality and hardiness so that they might be better suited to surviving in Middle-earth, something that Aule himself did not need to worry about. Meaning that dwarves were shaped for practicality, not as a mirror to their creator. He did take form AFTER he created them in order to teach them language, but even those passages in the Silmarillion don't mention anything of his appearance.

So, you got an explanation for why you're passing off wiki quotes as having come from the Silmarillion, inventing descriptions of characters that at best are loosely based on a game rather than the source material, and fabricating connections that don't exist in any of Tolkien's writing?

it's very funny seeing you try to justify that any actor can play any role, but only if they are a person of colour taking the role of a traditionally white character, the reverse is never ok according to you

Literally explained how I would be OK with one of the two examples you gave being played by a white actor. Are you fucking illiterate? I could certainly come up with a few more that might fit the bill here or there. However, since you're obviously a tad bit divorced from reality, it would be good for you to understand that a good portion of black characters are indelibly connected to that facet of them. I'd recommend you pick up a history book (even a secondary school book will do) to find out how people of color had been mistreated and marginalized for the better part of the last century, which includes a lack of representation in western media. White characters (and even many historical figures that have had dramatizations made of them) had the luxury of never having to worry about the color of their own skin which in turn makes that a less important part of those characters. The fact that you seem to think that everything is or should now be completely even is a testament to your lack of understanding of some very basic history.

and precisely how long did you spend in the UK before moving to the US? it doesn't really matter but it would be interesting to know just how out of date your information is because like a certain well-known YouTube individual who was born and raised in the UK but moved to the US and makes videos on the subtle differences between the two, he has not been back to the UK in so long that most of the nonsense he waffles on about is out of date, the reason I brought up the severe lack of culture and history that the US exhibits and tries desperately to co-opt anything they can get their hands on and give it the old American twist, is because you have clearly bought into that mindset and do not understand anything from a foundational level.

You're right, it doesn't really matter because clearly you're not willing to take that into account for actors like Lenny Henry or Sophia Nomvete who were born, raised, and reside in England. I know Ismael Cordova is Puerto Rican, but let's not pretend like you'd be any more in favor of a dark skinned actor who was born, raised, and still lives in England playing the part of an elf. This has nothing to do with where anyone was born or grew up. This has nothing to do with the US. You're literally saying that a good chunk of British people aren't British enough to take part in dramatizations of British stories. It's absurd that you take such an issue with stuff that is made expressly for entertainment.

last but not least, lest break this down again shall we, EVERY SINGLE FUCKING RACE IN MIDDLE EARTH IS BOUND BY THE LAWS OF NATURE AS WERE KNOWN ABOUT AT THE TIME THE STORIES WERE WRITTEN

We can drop the rest of your inane "I have black friends, too" rant and just quash this part immediately.

NO. THEY. DO. NOT. None of what Tolkien wrote is meant to be viewed through a scientific lens, neither a modern one nor one based on the prevailing understanding of science in his time. Tolkien couldn't even decide on whether the earth in his setting would be flat or round (he eventually settled on round even though much of the legendarium still relied on a flat earth design). Humanoid races that are immortal but still close enough to human to be able to produce offspring are NOT bound by the laws of nature. Species that were created fully formed and stashed, sleeping, under mountains for hundreds of years are NOT bound by the laws of nature. Humans that can live for centuries because they were born from a particular lineage are NOT bound by the laws of nature. Tolkien KNEW that none of these things were supported by the science of his time, and yet that mattered not because outside of the linguistic exercises he performed the intent was not to create a truly realistically grounded world but rather something in the vein of the myths and fairy tales of times long past. Stories told be people who had no concept of cosmology or genetics.

[Triceron]

So people should always be okay with the product they receive for their money, no matter if it is garbage? Heard of a thing called "refund" or "customer complaint"?

It's going to be a weird discussion because Rings of Power itself doesn't make money. Prime Video is one of many incentives to get people interested in subbing to Amazon, for the express purpose of buying shit online. The money is made through selling shit and shipping things, not through the show itself. In a way, all of Prime Video's shows are glorified commercials. They're all promotional materials. No one is expected to sub to Amazon Prime just for Prime Video, it is merely an incentive to keep the sub around.

There's no refund on Rings of Power any more than you could ask for a refund for a bad commercial for a product you happen to buy. Amazon's business model works very differently than its competitors like Netflix or Disney Plus, which directly make money off their subscriptions. There is no 'Prime Video' subscription, it is an Amazon Prime subscription. The marketting and development of the shows runs proportional to how well they think it maintains subs and gets people to continue to buy stuff off Amazon. In reality, the show can suck as long as it gets eyeballs. That's the whole purpose of forking up the money to buy such a big IP like Lord of the Rings. It was never about making a good show, it was always about making promotional material that hits a wide audience. And I think in those terms, Amazon's met their mark, and why they have little incentive to make the show any better than it already is as long as they can keep the numbers up.

And while there is always room for the show to improve, I don't think there's any room to change their target demographic from 'People who happen to like those LOTR movies' to 'People who read the Silmarillion'

[rogoth]

Oh, this is great. Don't worry, no mental gymnastics necessary (you already took care of those). Just a simple, thorough trouncing of your laughably misinformed position.

To start with THAT IS NOT A QUOTE FROM THE SILMARILLION. You copy/pasted that from the Tolkien Gateway wiki entry on Aule. Since you lack the necessary reading skills you didn't notice that that line isn't a direct quote and instead has a footnote to it referencing back to the Of the Valar section of the Valaquenta chapter in the Silmarillion (which I have open here in front of me). Do you actually have your own copy? Because if you did, you could have simply looked at that section yourself and seen that the "works of skin" part is actually a typo on the website. The ACTUAL referenced line is as follows:

"He is a smith and a master of all crafts, and he delights in works of skill, however small, as much as in the mighty building of old."

Hell, the term "Ambar" isn't even used in the Silmarillion to refer to Earth. The only mention I can find of its use like that is the "Atlas of Middle-earth" by Karen Fonstad.

Secondly, despite you doubling down on it, there is absolutely no reference to any preferred fana for Aule. Zero. Zilch. No mention of a muscular body, or even a beard. In the Ainulindale it's noted that the Valar could don appearances based on what they'd seen of the Children in the Vision of Iluvatar. It of course notes that they do not need these forms, and can take them on, change them, or cast them off like clothing. Aule certainly didn't need to take form in order to create, and there's certainly no mention of him molding dwarfs using a preferred shape that he had taken onto himself.

There is a written depiction of Aule that is as follows: "Aulë's seven-foot-tall fana is stout and strong. His long braided hair, shaggy black beard, and red-brown skin give him the image of a huge Dwarf." Perhaps that's where you got the whole "well knotted flowing beard" thing, BUT that description comes from the Middle-earth Role Playing game and is NOT based on anything Tolkien wrote. I think you like to call that sort of stuff "fan fiction".

Thirdly, if you go out and buy a copy of the Silmarillion, you can go to the Chapter titled 'Of Aule and Yavanna' to get a more in depth recounting of the creation of the dwarves. It's never said that Aule shaped them in the form that he himself took since at this time he needed no humanoid form to take. The passages note that he wanted these creatures to be "strong and unyielding" since they would be entering a world under the "power of Melkor". The implication is that he shaped the dwarves with their stout physicality and hardiness so that they might be better suited to surviving in Middle-earth, something that Aule himself did not need to worry about. Meaning that dwarves were shaped for practicality, not as a mirror to their creator. He did take form AFTER he created them in order to teach them language, but even those passages in the Silmarillion don't mention anything of his appearance.

So, you got an explanation for why you're passing off wiki quotes as having come from the Silmarillion, inventing descriptions of characters that at best are loosely based on a game rather than the source material, and fabricating connections that don't exist in any of Tolkien's writing?



Literally explained how I would be OK with one of the two examples you gave being played by a white actor. Are you fucking illiterate? I could certainly come up with a few more that might fit the bill here or there. However, since you're obviously a tad bit divorced from reality, it would be good for you to understand that a good portion of black characters are indelibly connected to that facet of them. I'd recommend you pick up a history book (even a secondary school book will do) to find out how people of color had been mistreated and marginalized for the better part of the last century, which includes a lack of representation in western media. White characters (and even many historical figures that have had dramatizations made of them) had the luxury of never having to worry about the color of their own skin which in turn makes that a less important part of those characters. The fact that you seem to think that everything is or should now be completely even is a testament to your lack of understanding of some very basic history.



You're right, it doesn't really matter because clearly you're not willing to take that into account for actors like Lenny Henry or Sophia Nomvete who were born, raised, and reside in England. I know Ismael Cordova is Puerto Rican, but let's not pretend like you'd be any more in favor of a dark skinned actor who was born, raised, and still lives in England playing the part of an elf. This has nothing to do with where anyone was born or grew up. This has nothing to do with the US. You're literally saying that a good chunk of British people aren't British enough to take part in dramatizations of British stories. It's absurd that you take such an issue with stuff that is made expressly for entertainment.



We can drop the rest of your inane "I have black friends, too" rant and just quash this part immediately.

NO. THEY. DO. NOT. None of what Tolkien wrote is meant to be viewed through a scientific lens, neither a modern one nor one based on the prevailing understanding of science in his time. Tolkien couldn't even decide on whether the earth in his setting would be flat or round (he eventually settled on round even though much of the legendarium still relied on a flat earth design). Humanoid races that are immortal but still close enough to human to be able to produce offspring are NOT bound by the laws of nature. Species that were created fully formed and stashed, sleeping, under mountains for hundreds of years are NOT bound by the laws of nature. Humans that can live for centuries because they were born from a particular lineage are NOT bound by the laws of nature. Tolkien KNEW that none of these things were supported by the science of his time, and yet that mattered not because outside of the linguistic exercises he performed the intent was not to create a truly realistically grounded world but rather something in the vein of the myths and fairy tales of times long past. Stories told be people who had no concept of cosmology or genetics.

I genuinely love reading your little diatribes, I purposefully made my comment with the knowledge you would come out all guns blazing trying to tear me down, and it worked, I stated quite clearly I already explained my position in previous posts, and that was the end of that, you just can't drop things because you absolutely must have your opinion validated by the imaginary audience this trash is made for, you're so lost in the sauce you can't even tell by the tone of what's written that it's not something remotely serious, yet here you are, mandating that everybody ignore common sense and logical thought and adhere to your delusional version of reality.

i also love your little jab about history, I'm sadly well-informed on history, about the barbarism that populated central and southern Africa which was the leading cause of the transatlantic slave trade, or the absolutely disgusting Barbary slave trade which was predominantly the enslavement of white people to be shipped from the Mediterranean to north Africa and the neighbouring Ottoman states, or were you referring to the mass genocides that have gone on for thousands of years by peoples all around the world? could you have been talking about the more recent military coup in Sudan or the ethnic cleansing in Kosovo? Or were you trying to hint at some of the atrocities performed by the East India Company on behalf of the British Empire? I'm afraid you're going to need to be a little specific over precisely what it is you're trying to use as a shield for your asinine argument here because talking in generalities doesn't work.

you flagrantly dismiss anything that could show your point to be as flimsy as the sand it is built upon, you deflect and twist what's written to control your narrative, and anything you dislike, you just use the same tired and worn-out tirade of ist/ism/phobe name calling that the alphabet mafia uses when people disagree with their mandates, and it's painfully obvious to see that you are so badly indoctrinated into that cesspit of delusion that you're unable to disassociate and you're unable to compartmentalize a topic of conversation, it's pathetic, and at this point, I have grown bored of you and this constant berating because of your inability to understand despite having things spelled out for you in simple terms.

- - - Updated - - -

It's going to be a weird discussion because Rings of Power itself doesn't make money. Prime Video is one of many incentives to get people interested in subbing to Amazon, for the express purpose of buying shit online. The money is made through selling shit and shipping things, not through the show itself. In a way, all of Prime Video's shows are glorified commercials. They're all promotional materials. No one is expected to sub to Amazon Prime just for Prime Video, it is merely an incentive to keep the sub around.

There's no refund on Rings of Power any more than you could ask for a refund for a bad commercial for a product you happen to buy. Amazon's business model works very differently than its competitors like Netflix or Disney Plus, which directly make money off their subscriptions. There is no 'Prime Video' subscription, it is an Amazon Prime subscription. The marketting and development of the shows runs proportional to how well they think it maintains subs and gets people to continue to buy stuff off Amazon. In reality, the show can suck as long as it gets eyeballs. That's the whole purpose of forking up the money to buy such a big IP like Lord of the Rings. It was never about making a good show, it was always about making promotional material that hits a wide audience. And I think in those terms, Amazon's met their mark, and why they have little incentive to make the show any better than it already is as long as they can keep the numbers up.

And while there is always room for the show to improve, I don't think there's any room to change their target demographic from 'People who happen to like those LOTR movies' to 'People who read the Silmarillion'

I'm pretty sure all 15 people in the world who bought a prime subscription could ask for a refund for it lol.

[Fabinas]

And yet when they say something that is negative you think they are telling the truth. Weird how that works. You see anything positive as a lie and anything negative as the truth.

An apology of failure is never meant to be taken as a lie (unless it's a prank).
Boasting, sometimes, if not most, are lies or altered truth at best.

[Triceron]

I'm pretty sure all 15 people in the world who bought a prime subscription could ask for a refund for it lol.

15 people in the world who bought a prime subscription? Wut?