Lord of the Rings TV Series Purchased by Amazon

[Thaneo]

There really isn't any chance of this being good is there?
I don't get why they just don't make their own IPs... critical role was a success and there is a massive vacuum in the market for new fantasy series.

[Nyel]

lol...

Tolkien's stuff is basically the definition of "generic fantasy" precisely because it laid the groundwork for a lot of what came after.

Ah okay. That's why the original source is generic and everything that tries to copy that is original. The show looks cheap and generic, the reception is overwhelmingly negative - I don't even know why we discuss this, it's a fact.

[Ara Myrr]

I don't get why they just don't make their own IPs... critical role was a success and there is a massive vacuum in the market for new fantasy series.

Too much work, far greater risk.

[Thaneo]

Too much work, far greater risk.

I would argue there is lower risk... as for work I am not a creative ive been published once in my life in a university short story contest and I would go through great pains to never have my pen name leaked. I can't see a billion dollar production that appears to be doomed as less risky then a cheaper new ip.

[Sluvs]

I specifically addressed Baranor when speaking further on the subject. Of course it isn't lore friendly and it isn't pretending to be. It is clearly non-canon, but even a game doesn't try to put what is clearly token diversity in an illogical setting.

Even a non-canon game found a logical way to explain why a Haradrim is the Captain of Gondor's guard at Minas Ithil. I loved playing as Baranor. Amazon's show, which I assume might be attempting to present itself as a canon representation of the universe, can and must do better. If it's clearly designated as non-canon, then it's a whatever on my end.

I mean, the only real canon things in LOTR universe are the books. The movies are not canonical as is this series, so I don't get your point.

IMHO, lore breaks are way more disrespectful to the source material than any casting decision. And its not even close.

[Aurgjelme]

https://boundingintocomics.com/2022/...XmOEKqgoswtsPw

J.R.R. Tolkien, the creator of The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings, torched a film treatment for an adaptation of The Lord of the Rings back in June 1958.

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It's not original in the sense that "he invented elfs", but mythology is all over the place, and he pretty much established the tropes of what is considered fantasy nowadays. Before Tolkien, an elf and a dwarf could be kind of the same thing, "a somewhat magical humanoid creature", same for trolls, goblins, ogres and orcs, who were all just fairytale monsters that looked however the person telling the story wanted them to. He took those names and gave them distinct shapes and cultures.

Nowadays, if someone tries to break that mold and use that same fantasy terminology and change its meaning, "it doesn't feel right". And at the same time, if you just do the same thing, "it's generic".

People in the Nordics had a quite good understanding even in viking times of what a troll was, and it deviates very little from what tolkien imagined.





Tolkien himself did the sin of copying something without reinventing it. Like the dwarves names was one thing, as well as many themes.
But in the end I agree with you that it is not at all comparable what Amazon is doing now.

It is actually ironic that a corporation like Amazon, which exploits laborers, damages the planet and collects wealth into a few hands is allowed to represent Tolkien, who would be opposed to this modern version of Isengard.

[Syegfryed]

so, what is this "appendix B" that the series is getting stuff from?

[Lorgar Aurelian]

What could they have put in the trailer to make it immediately identifiable as Lord of the Rings? Other than logo of course.

Ring close ups or um Hairy hobbit feet?

As a laymen on Lotr nothing really stands out….

[AcidicSyn]

"Evil cannot create anything new, they can only corrupt and ruin what good forces have invented or made" is not a real quote from tolkien's writings, it is in fact twisted and edited by some random crybabies on the internet. And you using it is funny, because according to the quote, you would be the evil force that twisted and corrupts shit to fit their world view.

I think the people quoting that might be talking about this line from Return of the King?

Frodo to Sam: "No, they eat and drink, Sam. The Shadow that bred them can only mock, it cannot make: not real new things of its own. I don't think it gave life to the orcs, it only ruined them and twisted them; and if they are to live at all, they have to live like other living creatures."

Mind, I got this off google, at work atm and my copy of rotk is at home, so can't verify it myself, though I do recall the "scene" its from, when they're about to attempt crossing the plains in mordor and Sam is wondering if they'll find any food or water out there if anyone does have their book handy.

Double mind, I'm not one of those offended by this show, as many have said- I have the books (and the audiobooks which I very much enjoy)

EDIT: Ah, seem you're well aware of the above already, hadn't caught up in the thread yet. My mistake.

[Ihavewaffles]

https://boundingintocomics.com/2022/...XmOEKqgoswtsPw

J.R.R. Tolkien, the creator of The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings, torched a film treatment for an adaptation of The Lord of the Rings back in June 1958.

- - - Updated - - -



People in the Nordics had a quite good understanding even in viking times of what a troll was, and it deviates very little from what tolkien imagined.

https://images-bonnier.imgix.net/fil...&fit=crop&crop

https://gundersencollection.no/wp-co...t-TIL-NETT.jpg

Tolkien himself did the sin of copying something without reinventing it. Like the dwarves names was one thing, as well as many themes.
But in the end I agree with you that it is not at all comparable what Amazon is doing now.

It is actually ironic that a corporation like Amazon, which exploits laborers, damages the planet and collects wealth into a few hands is allowed to represent Tolkien, who would be opposed to this modern version of Isengard.

I have to disagree on the trolls, Tolkien's trolls are very different to scandinavian ones, also in lots of fantasy trolls are said to have featureless flat faces, which is very different to scandinavian, I mean just look at john bauer's works.. in general fantasy trolls are very different to scandinavian folklore trolls..

[Magnagarde]

I mean, the only real canon things in LOTR universe are the books. The movies are not canonical as is this series, so I don't get your point.

IMHO, lore breaks are way more disrespectful to the source material than any casting decision. And its not even close.

Hmm, I wrote that with the possibility that Amazon was going to buy the IP on my mind. I read it's going up for sale sometime soon and that Amazon is speculated to be the number one potential buyer, which is why I think it is possible that they expand the "canon universe" on their own because it'd be their property.

[Triceron]

https://boundingintocomics.com/2022/...XmOEKqgoswtsPw

J.R.R. Tolkien, the creator of The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings, torched a film treatment for an adaptation of The Lord of the Rings back in June 1958.

- - - Updated - - -



People in the Nordics had a quite good understanding even in viking times of what a troll was, and it deviates very little from what tolkien imagined.





Tolkien himself did the sin of copying something without reinventing it. Like the dwarves names was one thing, as well as many themes.
But in the end I agree with you that it is not at all comparable what Amazon is doing now.

It is actually ironic that a corporation like Amazon, which exploits laborers, damages the planet and collects wealth into a few hands is allowed to represent Tolkien, who would be opposed to this modern version of Isengard.

To be fair, I doubt he'd approve of the Hobbit Trilogy just the same. New Line capitalized on making 3 movies out of something that had no reason being 3 movies.

We don't even know if he would necessarily have approved the LOTR trilogy for that matter.

[Xath]

Because, no matter how much they scream their projection onto others, they insist on being outraged over anything they can. They are unable to just walk away. I give Shadowferal shit for not actually finishing Wheel of Time and still complaining about things he's not really seen, but at least he had the principles to do so. People like Xath, on the other hand, need to bitch and moan as much as they can. They need to have something they can do so with. For a lot of people, it sadly defines them.

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Reminds me of DC and them pushing movies out to try and do what Marvel have done, before eventually giving up because they just didn't understand how they were messing things up.

Wheel of Time is one of my favorite book series of all time I've read and listened to it well over a dozen times. You on the other hand literally just exist to be contrary. You said nothing of substance in the WoT thread while others as much as I may have disagreed with them at least articulated their pov. LoTR is also up there for me almost like there is a huge overlap in fanbase.

[Triceron]

Hmm, I wrote that with the possibility that Amazon was going to buy the IP on my mind. I read it's going up for sale sometime soon and that Amazon is speculated to be the number one potential buyer, which is why I think it is possible that they expand the "canon universe" on their own because it'd be their property.

You're talking about the IP rights for movies and games. The Tolkien Estate is not giving up the LOTR IP. It still would need to be liscenced through them, as well as all non-book material would still be deemed non-canon. Just as all movie and game material already is.

You're talking about a liscencing deal which would allow Amazon to freely build a 'Cinematic Universe' between games and movies and make money off all existing games and movies being sold. It has nothing to do with making anything canonical to the books. We are solely talking about a potential Cinematic Universe. It will never enter the canon of the books, just being clear.

[Ara Myrr]

To be fair, I doubt he'd approve of the Hobbit Trilogy just the same. New Line capitalized on making 3 movies out of something that had no reason being 3 movies.

We don't even know if he would necessarily have approved the LOTR trilogy for that matter.

If his son's opinion was any indication, probably not... though i'd argue Christopher might have been even more zealous in protecting his father's work than Tolkien himself was.

[Coniferous]

They have 2 more seasons confirmed. Don't think they really mich care about whatever 'blew up on their face', since it doesn't seem to matter as much as people think it does.

True, but I’m extremely curious to see if they scale back on the nonsense in season 2. They have to know that the series was very poorly received by its biggest fans.

[Magnagarde]

You're talking about the IP rights for movies and games. The Tolkien Estate is not giving up the LOTR IP. It still would need to be liscenced through them, as well as all non-book material would still be deemed non-canon. Just as all movie and game material already is.

You're talking about a liscencing deal which would allow Amazon to freely build a 'Cinematic Universe' between games and movies and make money off all existing games and movies being sold. It has nothing to do with making anything canonical to the books. We are solely talking about a potential Cinematic Universe. It will never enter the canon of the books, just being clear.

Oh, I thought they were selling the IP.

[Orby]

As someone who loves Tolkien Lore and always tunes into channels like Nerd of the Rings and Broken Sword for my lore its really annoying to see youtube recommendations constantly recently keep showing the angry, whingy white boy channels as if to say you may also like this... I am like 'no, no I wont' and you cannot get rid of them I have blocked this one channel whose name rhymes with birdtonic at least 5 times now

This happened with the Star Wars trilogy, before the new trilogy came out I was happy with my Star Wars lore channels then youtube just started sending me angry grifters every day as if to say 'yea, this is the same thing you like'

And before anyone says 'oh so you think everyone who complains about the show is just a grifter man child' no I am not, I am saying if you gotta make one video everyday telling us that on youtube then yes you are.

[Triceron]

As someone who loves Tolkien Lore and always tunes into channels like Nerd of the Rings and Broken Sword for my lore its really annoying to see youtube recommendations constantly recently keep showing the angry, whingy white boy channels as if to say you may also like this... I am like 'no, no I wont' and you cannot get rid of them I have blocked this one channel whose name rhymes with birdtonic at least 5 times now

This happened with the Star Wars trilogy, before the new trilogy came out I was happy with my Star Wars lore channels then youtube just started sending me angry grifters every day as if to say 'yea, this is the same thing you like'

Have these overgrown man children not grown up yet?

And before anyone says 'oh so you think everyone who complains about the show is just a grifter man child' no I am not, I am saying if you gotta make one video everyday telling us that on youtube then yes you are.

I feel this way about WoW news. I haven't played in over 10 years, but I still like to catch up on the news around the game. I used to listen to the Instance, but they did a big shift in focus away from Blizzard games since around the time of the big recent lawsuits.

It's hard to find any WoW related news today without someone bringing in an angle. Sometimes I just wanna know what's happening, without it being filtered through some lens.

I wouldn't even know where to start with LOTR news.

[Ihavewaffles]

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood...rings-of-power
What, Exactly, Is the Source Material Here?

So what did Amazon buy? “We have the rights solely to The Fellowship of the Ring, The Two Towers, The Return of the King, the appendices, and The Hobbit,” Payne says. “And that is it. We do not have the rights to The Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales, The History of Middle-earth, or any of those other books.” That takes a huge chunk of lore off the table and has left Tolkien fans wondering how this duo plans to tell a Second Age story without access to those materials. “There’s a version of everything we need for the Second Age in the books we have the rights to,” McKay says. “As long as we’re painting within those lines and not egregiously contradicting something we don’t have the rights to, there’s a lot of leeway and room to
dramatize and tell some of the best stories that [Tolkien] ever came up with.”

“We took all these little clues and thought of them as stars in the sky that we then connected to write the novel that Tolkien never wrote about the Second Age,” Payne says. The duo cites songs like “The Fall of Gil-galad” (you can hear actor Bill Nighy sing it here from a 1981 BBC Radio adaptation) or “The Song of Eärendil” or Fellowship chapters like “The Council of Elrond” and “The Shadow of the Past” or the “Concerning Hobbits” section of the prologue as sources for significant lore dumps. Beyond the premiere, there aren’t, however, any significant time jumps or, thus far, episode-long journeys to the past. The rights to the First Age material from The Silmarillion are still owned by the Tolkien estate.

“We worked in conjunction with world-renowned Tolkien scholars and the Tolkien estate to make sure that the ways we connected the dots were Tolkienian and gelled with the experts’ and the estate’s understanding of the material,” Payne says.