1. #1001
    Quote Originally Posted by s_bushido View Post
    How does it occur to someone to talk about a lack of "quality control" when the product hasn't even been released to judge its quality?

    And how does "this company wants to make money off of their investment" count as a criticism when that's basically a law of nature? The show could be absolute shit. But you're not going to know that based on nothing more than less than a minute of footage and some interviews/press releases.
    Cuz they've already done it with Wheel of Time, and nothing seen so far with LOTR inspires any confidence that they're doing anything to adhere to the authenticity of the source material. What we've seen and know so far is that they are literally doing their own thing.

    This entire series isn't actually based on any particular story from the books. They can tell their story any way they want as long as they don't change the history. As pointed out, they don't have the rights to the Silmarillion, so whatever Second Age story they're telling here is drawing references solely from the appendices.

    It's like adapting a Shakespeare play to film but all you can use are Coles Notes.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2022-02-17 at 09:55 AM.

  2. #1002
    Quote Originally Posted by bledgor View Post
    Using WoT as a rule of thumb about production value from Amazon it tells you a lot about the final product sadly.
    I know nothing of WoT tbh... but heard bad things of it.
    Just wanted to give some insight since I have it. I'm not exactly saying people should believe it's gonna be awesome in the end...guess I have no real point tbh.
    I just like information like this myself so, maybe someone else do as well.
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  3. #1003
    Quote Originally Posted by Nask View Post
    Oh, TV tropes? That explains, since there is actually a real quote in the books, but you went for a TV tropes? Have you even read the books? Are you LOTR movie baby?
    Yeah I haven't read the books, that's how I knew that quote wasn't from the books. I have been exposed.
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  4. #1004
    Quote Originally Posted by s_bushido View Post
    The irony of LotR being the "generic" elf/dwarf/orc fantasy setting that everything after is based on is not lost on me...
    How can it be generic when everything that came after is based on it? It's the original source of basically all that. And the movie trilogy, heck even the Hobbit movies, exuded exactly that. Nothing in the trailer does this. And that's the main problem, next to all of the other problematic details.
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  5. #1005
    Mechagnome Aurgjelme's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    How can it be generic when everything that came after is based on it? It's the original source of basically all that. And the movie trilogy, heck even the Hobbit movies, exuded exactly that. Nothing in the trailer does this. And that's the main problem, next to all of the other problematic details.
    A lot of the hobbit and LOTR is Tolkien just using old Norse sources, so not quite the original.
    In fact all the companion dwarves names in the hobbit is a copy pasta from the poetic edda.

  6. #1006
    What could they have put in the trailer to make it immediately identifiable as Lord of the Rings? Other than logo of course.

  7. #1007
    Quote Originally Posted by Aurgjelme View Post
    A lot of the hobbit and LOTR is Tolkien just using old Norse sources, so not quite the original.
    In fact all the companion dwarves names in the hobbit is a copy pasta from the poetic edda.
    It's not original in the sense that "he invented elfs", but mythology is all over the place, and he pretty much established the tropes of what is considered fantasy nowadays. Before Tolkien, an elf and a dwarf could be kind of the same thing, "a somewhat magical humanoid creature", same for trolls, goblins, ogres and orcs, who were all just fairytale monsters that looked however the person telling the story wanted them to. He took those names and gave them distinct shapes and cultures.

    Nowadays, if someone tries to break that mold and use that same fantasy terminology and change its meaning, "it doesn't feel right". And at the same time, if you just do the same thing, "it's generic".

  8. #1008
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    How can it be generic when everything that came after is based on it? It's the original source of basically all that. And the movie trilogy, heck even the Hobbit movies, exuded exactly that. Nothing in the trailer does this. And that's the main problem, next to all of the other problematic details.
    lol...

    Tolkien's stuff is basically the definition of "generic fantasy" precisely because it laid the groundwork for a lot of what came after.

  9. #1009
    There really isn't any chance of this being good is there?
    I don't get why they just don't make their own IPs... critical role was a success and there is a massive vacuum in the market for new fantasy series.

  10. #1010
    Quote Originally Posted by s_bushido View Post
    lol...

    Tolkien's stuff is basically the definition of "generic fantasy" precisely because it laid the groundwork for a lot of what came after.
    Ah okay. That's why the original source is generic and everything that tries to copy that is original. The show looks cheap and generic, the reception is overwhelmingly negative - I don't even know why we discuss this, it's a fact.
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  11. #1011
    Quote Originally Posted by Thaneo View Post
    I don't get why they just don't make their own IPs... critical role was a success and there is a massive vacuum in the market for new fantasy series.
    Too much work, far greater risk.

  12. #1012
    Quote Originally Posted by Ara Myrr View Post
    Too much work, far greater risk.
    I would argue there is lower risk... as for work I am not a creative ive been published once in my life in a university short story contest and I would go through great pains to never have my pen name leaked. I can't see a billion dollar production that appears to be doomed as less risky then a cheaper new ip.

  13. #1013
    Herald of the Titans Sluvs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magnagarde View Post
    I specifically addressed Baranor when speaking further on the subject. Of course it isn't lore friendly and it isn't pretending to be. It is clearly non-canon, but even a game doesn't try to put what is clearly token diversity in an illogical setting.

    Even a non-canon game found a logical way to explain why a Haradrim is the Captain of Gondor's guard at Minas Ithil. I loved playing as Baranor. Amazon's show, which I assume might be attempting to present itself as a canon representation of the universe, can and must do better. If it's clearly designated as non-canon, then it's a whatever on my end.
    I mean, the only real canon things in LOTR universe are the books. The movies are not canonical as is this series, so I don't get your point.

    IMHO, lore breaks are way more disrespectful to the source material than any casting decision. And its not even close.
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  14. #1014
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    https://boundingintocomics.com/2022/...XmOEKqgoswtsPw

    J.R.R. Tolkien, the creator of The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings, torched a film treatment for an adaptation of The Lord of the Rings back in June 1958.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Soulwind View Post
    It's not original in the sense that "he invented elfs", but mythology is all over the place, and he pretty much established the tropes of what is considered fantasy nowadays. Before Tolkien, an elf and a dwarf could be kind of the same thing, "a somewhat magical humanoid creature", same for trolls, goblins, ogres and orcs, who were all just fairytale monsters that looked however the person telling the story wanted them to. He took those names and gave them distinct shapes and cultures.

    Nowadays, if someone tries to break that mold and use that same fantasy terminology and change its meaning, "it doesn't feel right". And at the same time, if you just do the same thing, "it's generic".
    People in the Nordics had a quite good understanding even in viking times of what a troll was, and it deviates very little from what tolkien imagined.





    Tolkien himself did the sin of copying something without reinventing it. Like the dwarves names was one thing, as well as many themes.
    But in the end I agree with you that it is not at all comparable what Amazon is doing now.

    It is actually ironic that a corporation like Amazon, which exploits laborers, damages the planet and collects wealth into a few hands is allowed to represent Tolkien, who would be opposed to this modern version of Isengard.

  15. #1015
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    so, what is this "appendix B" that the series is getting stuff from?

  16. #1016
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkAmbient View Post
    What could they have put in the trailer to make it immediately identifiable as Lord of the Rings? Other than logo of course.
    Ring close ups or um Hairy hobbit feet?

    As a laymen on Lotr nothing really stands out….
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  17. #1017
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nask View Post
    "Evil cannot create anything new, they can only corrupt and ruin what good forces have invented or made" is not a real quote from tolkien's writings, it is in fact twisted and edited by some random crybabies on the internet. And you using it is funny, because according to the quote, you would be the evil force that twisted and corrupts shit to fit their world view.
    I think the people quoting that might be talking about this line from Return of the King?

    Frodo to Sam: "No, they eat and drink, Sam. The Shadow that bred them can only mock, it cannot make: not real new things of its own. I don't think it gave life to the orcs, it only ruined them and twisted them; and if they are to live at all, they have to live like other living creatures."

    Mind, I got this off google, at work atm and my copy of rotk is at home, so can't verify it myself, though I do recall the "scene" its from, when they're about to attempt crossing the plains in mordor and Sam is wondering if they'll find any food or water out there if anyone does have their book handy.

    Double mind, I'm not one of those offended by this show, as many have said- I have the books (and the audiobooks which I very much enjoy)

    EDIT: Ah, seem you're well aware of the above already, hadn't caught up in the thread yet. My mistake.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kathandira View Post
    You are kinda joe Roganing this topic. Hardly have any actual knowledge other than what people have told you, and jumping into a discussion with people who have direct experience with it. Don't be Joe Rogan.

  18. #1018
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aurgjelme View Post
    https://boundingintocomics.com/2022/...XmOEKqgoswtsPw

    J.R.R. Tolkien, the creator of The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings, torched a film treatment for an adaptation of The Lord of the Rings back in June 1958.

    - - - Updated - - -



    People in the Nordics had a quite good understanding even in viking times of what a troll was, and it deviates very little from what tolkien imagined.

    https://images-bonnier.imgix.net/fil...&fit=crop&crop

    https://gundersencollection.no/wp-co...t-TIL-NETT.jpg

    Tolkien himself did the sin of copying something without reinventing it. Like the dwarves names was one thing, as well as many themes.
    But in the end I agree with you that it is not at all comparable what Amazon is doing now.

    It is actually ironic that a corporation like Amazon, which exploits laborers, damages the planet and collects wealth into a few hands is allowed to represent Tolkien, who would be opposed to this modern version of Isengard.
    I have to disagree on the trolls, Tolkien's trolls are very different to scandinavian ones, also in lots of fantasy trolls are said to have featureless flat faces, which is very different to scandinavian, I mean just look at john bauer's works.. in general fantasy trolls are very different to scandinavian folklore trolls..


  19. #1019
    Quote Originally Posted by Sluvs View Post
    I mean, the only real canon things in LOTR universe are the books. The movies are not canonical as is this series, so I don't get your point.

    IMHO, lore breaks are way more disrespectful to the source material than any casting decision. And its not even close.
    Hmm, I wrote that with the possibility that Amazon was going to buy the IP on my mind. I read it's going up for sale sometime soon and that Amazon is speculated to be the number one potential buyer, which is why I think it is possible that they expand the "canon universe" on their own because it'd be their property.

  20. #1020
    Quote Originally Posted by Aurgjelme View Post
    https://boundingintocomics.com/2022/...XmOEKqgoswtsPw

    J.R.R. Tolkien, the creator of The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings, torched a film treatment for an adaptation of The Lord of the Rings back in June 1958.

    - - - Updated - - -



    People in the Nordics had a quite good understanding even in viking times of what a troll was, and it deviates very little from what tolkien imagined.





    Tolkien himself did the sin of copying something without reinventing it. Like the dwarves names was one thing, as well as many themes.
    But in the end I agree with you that it is not at all comparable what Amazon is doing now.

    It is actually ironic that a corporation like Amazon, which exploits laborers, damages the planet and collects wealth into a few hands is allowed to represent Tolkien, who would be opposed to this modern version of Isengard.
    To be fair, I doubt he'd approve of the Hobbit Trilogy just the same. New Line capitalized on making 3 movies out of something that had no reason being 3 movies.

    We don't even know if he would necessarily have approved the LOTR trilogy for that matter.

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