Lord of the Rings TV Series Purchased by Amazon

[micwini]

No, I have not said that. Are you able to understand how a scale is balanced?

Random phrases will not save you. You have factually indirectly stated that racism against whites is OK.
Let me repeat: You said inclusivity policies are not bad. The link you posted contained an inclusivity policy that is racist against white people.
Therefore, you have said that racism against white people is not bad.

It is a simple mathematical equation using your own arguments and sources.

Also: No reason you should flee from the discussion with Rogoth, just because your arguments don't hold up.

[Askyl]

Well, for such a rubbish show, why does this one have 521 pages of replies?

I can't stand the man Galadariel, that looks like a female, but feels like it's a bro - it's so weird.. can't stand the character, the man-she.

And that's not a criticism of the actor, but the character.

Season 1 she felt a bit cringy, but shaped up very well in Season 2 to be honest. But it felt like she passed her teenage angst onto Elrond early Season 2 instead of them just dropping it.

Galadriels nickname from her mother is literally Man Maiden, so that kind of suits the character well.

[Mace]

I don't have to know you to know what the words you use state. It doesn't matter what boxes you personally tick because bigots come in all shapes and sizes. The notion that because you tick a box of diversity you can't be a bigot is silly. The fact you right away accuse others of thinking you are neckbeard and your accusers belong to a cult indicates you are hating.

Rings of Power is not rubbish or out of control because it has black actors. That is a simple fact. It would be the same if the cast was all white. You, and others, making it about diversity only shows bigotry.

I think you make assumptions about people who don't agree 100% with you, you've just done it with me here, and I don't appreciate it.

Rings of power is rubbish because it's a terrible show, not because of black actors, it's flat, uninspiring and the main character is very unlikeable to me. It has nothing to do that she is female, or that an elf is black - we can argue the lore consistency around things like that and still praise the show if it was good.

I thought the black dwarfess in season 1 was one of the best characters of the entire first season, and the black elf male did alright, thank you for asking, and that's got nothing to do with whether I agree that an elf or dwarf should be black, nor does it have anything to do with the quality of the show.

Maybe you can't distinguish lore critic from plot /show critic, but hey, I haven't commented about my views on any of them. The fact you have to state that you think it's not rubbish or out of control because of black actors, automaically is making an assumption about what I think, like you did in your first response, why do you think I'm responding to you like that?

You don't know me, and you are making all sorts of assumptions about me, because I haven't joined lock step in praise of everything you hold precious, therefore you have attributed all kinds of things to me that you do not know, or know little to nothing about.

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Season 1 she felt a bit cringy, but shaped up very well in Season 2 to be honest. But it felt like she passed her teenage angst onto Elrond early Season 2 instead of them just dropping it.

Galadriels nickname from her mother is literally Man Maiden, so that kind of suits the character well.

I see, so you think Season 2 is better than season 1 and she improves? I wasn't able to watch past the first few mins of season 2 without losing interest, if it turns around, I might give it a go.

Did Tolkien define Galadriel's nick name? or was that something from the Rings of power writers? Giving her a nickname for the type of character they created?

[Triceron]

Random phrases will not save you. You have factually indirectly stated that racism against whites is OK.
Let me repeat: You said inclusivity policies are not bad. The link you posted contained an inclusivity policy that is racist against white people.
Therefore, you have said that racism against white people is not bad.

It is a simple mathematical equation using your own arguments and sources.

Also: No reason you should flee from the discussion with Rogoth, just because your arguments don't hold up.

This x1000.

Bigotry works the other way around too when we point out that skin color doesn't matter to the story, so there isn't any issue with an all-white cast either if it makes sense for the setting. No one made an issue out of the Northman for having an all-white cast. The story wouldn't have changed if they opened up diversity, but it wouldn't have fit the creative direction that the setting of the movie intended to have either.

[rhorle]

Random phrases will not save you. You have factually indirectly stated that racism against whites is OK.

I have not factually stated that. You have multiple times. I am not fleeing from any discussion. Do I need to be refeshing the screen constantly for replies just because you got triggered? Racism is not okay. You can't bring equity and inclusion without boosting marginalized groups. It is not racism to balance the metaphorical scale.

https://www.equasense.co.uk/wp-conte...nclusion-2.png

[micwini]

This x1000.

Bigotry works the other way around too when we point out that skin color doesn't matter to the story, so there isn't any issue with an all-white cast either if it makes sense for the setting. No one made an issue out of the Northman for having an all-white cast. The story wouldn't have changed if they opened up diversity, but it wouldn't have fit the creative direction that the setting of the movie intended to have either.

Full agree on this. As a european, it just comes across as racist when I see this weird diverse cast in a setting that doesnt make sense.
I don't know but I grew up with learning that having 'token' characters is racist in itself, because you'd select people based on skin color/gender/etc. Whatever happened to that?

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I have not factually stated that. You have multiple times. I am not fleeing from any discussion. Do I need to be refeshing the screen constantly for replies just because you got triggered? Racism is not okay. You can't bring equity and inclusion without boosting marginalized groups. It is not racism to balance the metaphorical scale.

https://www.equasense.co.uk/wp-conte...nclusion-2.png

Racism means treating people differently because of their race. Therefore, the inclusivity you posted is racist. You said inclusivity policies are not bad. Therefore, you have factually stated that racism against whites is OK. Boosting marginalized groups because of their race = racism.

You state that I have stated 'multiple times' racism against whites is OK. I haven't.
You state that I am triggered. This seems to be projection on your side.

Unfortunately, you are once again contradicting yourself and are also stating that I've said things that I have never said.

[rhorle]

I think you make assumptions about people who don't agree 100% with you, you've just done it with me here, and I don't appreciate it.

I didn't make any assumption. I went off of the argument you made. You made several assumptions and are projecting hard. If it isn't rubbish because of black actors then why do the presence of black actors keep coming up in discussions about the show? Why does their presence keep being equated to a quota? How do you know they were not the best from the casting calls?

You are the only that equated the presence of black actors as making the show rubbish or out of control. Of course what you say states something about you, lol.

[Mace]

because rhorle/adamas/dhrizzle et al will keep defending this show as the best thing on tv and the best thing since sliced bread, so as soon as anybody comes along and rightly criticises this show for any reason whatsoever they bolt out frothing at the mouth with the usual ist/ism/phobe name calling and the stereotypical berating people who have a negative opinion until they either submit to their way of seeing things or until those people leave and never return, because nothing screams 'inclusive' like excluding people who have a dissenting perspective on something that is provably horrific to the source material they have access to.

Thanks, and that makes sense, given how it swooped down on me casting all sort of assumptions about me that had nothing to do with what I said.

Have they managed to convince anyone the show is good with their tirade?

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I didn't make any assumption. I went off of the argument you made. You made several assumptions and are projecting hard. If it isn't rubbish because of black actors then why do the presence of black actors keep coming up in discussions about the show? Why does their presence keep being equated to a quota? How do you know they were not the best from the casting calls?

You are the only that equated the presence of black actors as making the show rubbish or out of control. Of course what you say states something about you, lol.

I said nothing about black actors, so why did you bring them up in response to me if not making an assumption that I have problems with black actors. You don't know me, what aspersions did I cast about black actors? I think the show is rubbish, you disagree, and therefore I hate black actors or have a problem with them? That is some mental gymnastics.

[Kumorii]

Have they managed to convince anyone the show is good with their tirade?

Mostly themselves. But most of the "defenders" always seem to come into the angle of the ones who dislike it are bigots. It's a form of masturbation. Or you know, virtue signaling.

-----

You can't bring equity and inclusion without boosting marginalized groups. It is not racism to balance the metaphorical scale.

Why does their presence keep being equated to a quota?

And, this made me laugh.

[Mace]

Full agree on this. As a european, it just comes across as racist when I see this weird diverse cast in a setting that doesnt make sense.
I don't know but I grew up with learning that having 'token' characters is racist in itself, because you'd select people based on skin color/gender/etc. Whatever happened to that?

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Racism means treating people differently because of their race. Therefore, the inclusivity you posted is racist. You said inclusivity policies are not bad. Therefore, you have factually stated that racism against whites is OK. Boosting marginalized groups because of their race = racism.

You state that I have stated 'multiple times' racism against whites is OK. I haven't.
You state that I am triggered. This seems to be projection on your side.

Unfortunately, you are once again contradicting yourself and are also stating that I've said things that I have never said.

Ah, this guy projects a lot, that makes a lot of sense, he did it with me while accusing me of doing it - and I was like wtf - is he thinking straight.

He is giving me culty vibes.

[Dhrizzle]

as I have said many times, in fact so many times i have lost count, I couldn't care less about what colour someone is

You say that but with the continuous ranting about diversity hires and even the ridiculous "what if Tom Holland played Martin Luther King" comment it really rings hollow.

and you haven't addressed why you hate deformed orcs so much, all you have done is provide a personal anecdote that you think the 'tumour-faced' orcs don't fit in the world of Middle Earth in past versions of media, yet you can't or won't elaborate on why you think that I merely suggested you have a disgust of seeing deformed people on screen, and so far your response has done nothing to deny that suggestion, instead you try to make a pisspoor attempt at a personal attack on me thinking it makes you look good, and you try to assume some faux moral high ground that simply doesn't exist, standard tactics from your cult lessons I assume?

I never said I hated the deformed Orcs in the PJ trilogy, sure I'd have preferred something a bit closer to Tolkien's descriptions but I appreciate the film was made for a modern audience raised around the idea that Orcs are hulking monstrosities so that's the aesthetic they went for. Also I should probably point out that the Orcs in the movies were a mix of CGI, make-up and prosthetics, they didn't actually hire people with extreme facial deformities.

I also said that Aragorn, Boromir and Faramir should have been beardless but you didn't start screeching about me being disgusted by bearded people, just made some cryptic comments about people from the Balkans.

[rhorle]

You state that I have stated 'multiple times' racism against whites is OK. I haven't.

In order to accuse me of it you have had to state that claim multiple times.I have not stated racism against whites is okay. That is again something you keep claiming I've said but you can't factually provided a quote of me saying that. Only your interpretation that fits the narrative you are trying to push.

Also, it makes sense for a diverse cast in a setting based on Medieval Europe. https://old.reddit.com/r/AskHistoria...europe_a_myth/ and Northman should have had more diversity if it was being historically accurate: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistoria...criticized_in/

[Dhrizzle]

I see, so you think Season 2 is better than season 1 and she improves? I wasn't able to watch past the first few mins of season 2 without losing interest, if it turns around, I might give it a go.

Did Tolkien define Galadriel's nick name? or was that something from the Rings of power writers? Giving her a nickname for the type of character they created?

It's from Tolkien, Elves typically have a father-name, a mother-name and a given name. I can't remember her father-name off-hand but her mother-name is Nerwen which translates as Man-maiden. "Galadriel" means "crowned with a radiant garland," given to her by Celeborn (or Teleporno depending on which version of the story you're following) referring to the way she wore her hair for physical activities.

[rhorle]

I said nothing about black actors, so why did you bring them up in response to me if not making an assumption that I have problems with black actors. You don't know me, what aspersions did I cast about black actors? I think the show is rubbish, you disagree, and therefore I hate black actors or have a problem with them? That is some mental gymnastics.

No, but in your mind, I'm a hater, and you probably imagine me as a neck beard, heavy set, incel white male, that hates all things diverse the moment I criticise anything the cult holds sacred, even when it's clearly rubbish or out of control - nope, I must be a hater - must be one of those far right people I guess, cos I don't agree to everything put out there.

You are the one that connected it being out of control and rubbish to the presence of black actors. Let's not pretend that your comment about undermining stories from specific time periods had zero to do with the setting for Lord of the Rings and it being based on England.

Not to mention it's worse if you then start insisting all your programming and stories you write follow this mandate, which means you can never have stories that are unique to a specific ethnicity, orientation or even gender only those that have everything, which will greatly undermine certain stories in very specific time periods, locations or activities.

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Ah, this guy projects a lot, that makes a lot of sense, he did it with me while accusing me of doing it - and I was like wtf - is he thinking straight. He is giving me culty vibes.

So complaining about projecting while projecting a cult on to me. Something you did at the start of the conversation as well. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they are in a cult.

[Triceron]

Full agree on this. As a european, it just comes across as racist when I see this weird diverse cast in a setting that doesnt make sense.
I don't know but I grew up with learning that having 'token' characters is racist in itself, because you'd select people based on skin color/gender/etc. Whatever happened to that?

I'm Chinese Canadian, and I've grown up on many types of movies from all types of western productions to HK movies from the 80's. To me, skin color does matter, because it denotes culture. And having diversity where it makes sense is important, because it implies an acceptance and embracing of culture. When it's just thrown into a setting where it doesn't fit, with no explanation and no distinction for culture or history behind it, then it's nothing more than just race-swapping a role. And I do find race swapping to be more problematic than actually integrating cultural acceptance into a story and setting.

[Mace]

You are the one that connected it being out of control and rubbish to the presence of black actors. Let's not pretend that your comment about undermining stories from specific time periods had zero to do with the setting for Lord of the Rings and it being based on England.

If your brain is making a connection to hating black actors from that, then you need to re-examine your brain or more precisely your logic.

So complaining about projecting while projecting a cult on to me. Something you did at the start of the conversation as well. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they are in a cult.

You've come in, guns blazing with assumptions. Tossing the word cult back doesn't excuse you. You do not realise that you cannot be reasoned with, you are always right, anyone who disagrees with you even one thing of yours is not only wrong but hates everything you agree with or hold dear. One cannot be with you unless one holds identical infallible agreement and beliefs as you.

Look at how you respond to anyone who says something you don't agree with. I said I thought the show was awful and largely because of the man Galadriel. I said nothing about black actors, and elves or casting decisions or their worthiness or not, you brought that up, I tried to walk you back on that - trying to tell you wait a sec.. wtf.. what did what i say have to do with any of that stuff i didn't mention, then tried to explain to you it had nothing to do with it, and still you go on.

You prove you can't be reasoned with in a manner that comes across like a cult member defending his cultish reasoning in the face of logic he just refuses to see because he cannot be wrong. That is very culty. I mean I even have to explain it to you...

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It's from Tolkien, Elves typically have a father-name, a mother-name and a given name. I can't remember her father-name off-hand but her mother-name is Nerwen which translates as Man-maiden. "Galadriel" means "crowned with a radiant garland," given to her by Celeborn (or Teleporno depending on which version of the story you're following) referring to the way she wore her hair for physical activities.

Do they elaborate on what that means? I want to know if that is an intention of Tolkien or if that is just the show runners interpretation of what man-maiden means, or the excuse for making her so mannish when the way she is portrayed when Tolkien writes her does not fit the way she was portrayed in Season 1 at all, not even close.

I am all too familiar how phrases can be used by people to mean whatever they want when the author could have meant something very different from what they put it too, yet if it is the intention of the author, then it's worth noting and exploring what that means.

However, I still don't like how they portray her in season 1 at all. A man-she or male maiden, like a man in a woman's body - it's like hollywood has lost the ability in these mega billion franchises to actually show women as strong and powerful without coming across as masculine. And maybe that is the fault of the type of writers they hire. There are people , women, that only view strong and powerful in the way men are, therefore they feel that a woman can only be strong and powerful when she is behaving like a male. So their characters come off as extremely mannish. Like male characters just using female bodies or actors. In stark contrast to previous decades and shows from europe or Korea and Japan where you can get extremely competent and strong female characters that not once come off as male or make you feel they are male or mannish, yet are incredibly well written, and feel strong and powerful appropriately. And it's amazing how they do this entirely on the credit of the female character, and never need the male characters to be horrible or terrible in comparison which is definitely a consistent trend in the blockbuster franchises put out by Hollywood studios in recent years.

[rhorle]

If your brain is making a connection to hating black actors from that, then you need to re-examine your brain or more precisely your logic.

Nah, stop projecting. The topic of the discussion was black actors existing in Rings of Power because of a mandated quota. You ranted about qoutas. You projected me calling you an incel neckbeard. You made the connection of it being rubbish to the topic of qoutas.

I am not always right. The irony is that you are saying you are right about the topic and/or me and that you can't be wrong. You are the only one that is showing that they can't be reasoned with. I don't require anyone to hold indetical beliefs as I do. That is again you projecting and being irrational because you can't cope with someone not agreeing with you.

Galadriel is not a man. That is bigotry and you continuing to use misgender her is not an innocent mistake.

[micwini]

In order to accuse me of it you have had to state that claim multiple times.I have not stated racism against whites is okay. That is again something you keep claiming I've said but you can't factually provided a quote of me saying that. Only your interpretation that fits the narrative you are trying to push.

Also, it makes sense for a diverse cast in a setting based on Medieval Europe. https://old.reddit.com/r/AskHistoria...europe_a_myth/ and Northman should have had more diversity if it was being historically accurate: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistoria...criticized_in/

You say in this post that you have not stated that racism against whites is okay.
Let me repeat: You said inclusivity policies are not bad. The link you posted contained an inclusivity policy that is racist against white people.
Therefore, you have said that racism against white people is not bad.

If you say racism against white people is not bad, that means you have said that racism against white people is OK.

Again, a mathematical equation using your own arguments, sources and posts.

Also: Reddit is not a good source for actual research. All sources provided by the most upvoted replier are also heavily biased towards certain political agenda's and all of them are post-woke era. Therefore, both "sources" you linked are hereby declared factually invalid.

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I'm Chinese Canadian, and I've grown up on many types of movies from all types of western productions to HK movies from the 80's. To me, skin color does matter, because it denotes culture. And having diversity where it makes sense is important, because it implies an acceptance and embracing of culture. When it's just thrown into a setting where it doesn't fit, with no explanation and no distinction for culture or history behind it, then it's nothing more than just race-swapping a role. And I do find race swapping to be more problematic than actually integrating cultural acceptance into a story and setting.

Exactly. It should fit the setting. But unfortunately, when I point that out I get hit with all the words that end with 'ism'.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

To me, skin color does matter, because it denotes culture.

Not a personal attack or calling you racist or the such, but I have to wonder how you parse this?

Like some one with a black skin tone can have a completely different culture based on what African or Caribbean or if there African American, same with white people being Irish Scottish American, and of course other skin tones. Then of course there are mix raced people who can throw off even the idea of “they just don’t have the same culture” as they can vary greatly on how they look but share the exact same culture.

[rogoth]

You say that but with the continuous ranting about diversity hires and even the ridiculous "what if Tom Holland played Martin Luther King" comment it really rings hollow.



I never said I hated the deformed Orcs in the PJ trilogy, sure I'd have preferred something a bit closer to Tolkien's descriptions but I appreciate the film was made for a modern audience raised around the idea that Orcs are hulking monstrosities so that's the aesthetic they went for. Also I should probably point out that the Orcs in the movies were a mix of CGI, make-up and prosthetics, they didn't actually hire people with extreme facial deformities.

I also said that Aragorn, Boromir and Faramir should have been beardless but you didn't start screeching about me being disgusted by bearded people, just made some cryptic comments about people from the Balkans.

just to be clear here, because it's blatantly apparent that you will spout any old trash to try and defend your point:

before a single minute of footage was seen for this show, and the characters were revealed, it was highlighted that the racist hiring mandate of Amazon was likely the main reason behind many of the badly written fan fiction characters of this show, and a pure example of tokenism in action.

as to your asinine jab, I said why can't Tom Holland play the next black panther, seeing as you and the person I was responding to seem to think that any actor can play any role regardless of whether the source material dictates that the character be presented a certain way or not, so I used a very sensible example which just proves you and the rest are racist against white people because of your flippant response as seen here and elsewhere, if you're gonna try to quote something I said, at least have the fucking decency to quote it properly with context, and not just do what you normally do and cherry pick and fabricate to suit your narrative.

you said 'Aragorn, Boromir and Faramir should have been beardless', why? what does having a beard change in respect to the story being told?

you went on a tangent talking about these character's appearance, so I have stated that if you want to be a pedantic little fuck about such details, then they should all look like they are from the Balkans/southern Mediterranean because that would make them as close to a 1:1 representation of the people who live in a climate such as that represented by Gondor and the surrounding areas as well as that of Numenor because again you and the rest of the cult are making such pathetic and pedantic arguments over the smallest little detail being wrong as a 'gotcha' when someone comes in with criticism of the show it's basically 'so you're ok with *insert your pedantic little pet peeve here* but not ok with *insert actual legitimate criticism here*, how is that not being a hypocrite', that's EXACTLY what you're doing to me here, it's what you have done to other in other posts.

using your vast wealth of knowledge on the topic, explain in painful detail how you would make the orcs look on screen, take your time I have all day, I want to know PRECISELY what every film-maker in the history of tv and cinema could do moving forward from someone such as yourself who is clearly well versed on the topic of taking something from page to screen, I'm sure you could teach generations to come with your understanding /s.

I'm not so petty as to want such a pedantic thing changed because it's not 1:1 with the source material as how orcs are portrayed in the PJ trilogy or other subsequent media since because it doesn't match with word for word descriptions in the books.