1. #1161
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rennadrel View Post
    Makes me laugh that the original versions of the films would be deemed too long by today's cinema goers since they are over 2.5 hours. God forbid the extended versions actually were what released in theaters initially.
    it was what fucked up the most in the warcraft movie, it was butchered to fit one hour/cinema standard

  2. #1162
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    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    Interesting that I read this and thought you were talking about yourself and others like you. My only surprise was that you didn't fit the word "agenda" in there somewhere.
    Well considering I'm not some narrow-minded idiot who thinks that every single thing about my meaningless existence needs to be represented all the time irregardless of what the original creators intents were, I'd say you are pretty wrong in that respect. Then again, I'm also not the bigot trying to rewrite another man's work which was based off European folklore and mythology with stuff that never existed in it in the first place.

    But hey, I don't mind pointing out all the things that are clearly wrong just with how they are trying to portray Galadrial if you think I have an actual issue with all the other things that are factually inaccurate to the lore. Let's start with how they should have cast an older woman to play her instead of someone in their early 20's. Or the fact that she isn't a warrior, even though she is a leader. She doesn't need to fight to prove that she holds power, and it was one of the reasons why I loved Cate Blanchette's performance. Not to mention how bad the costumes and armor look. Then we have the actor who is supposedly playing Elrond, again, too young. When you consider that an elf's lifespan in Middle Earth is about 10,000 years, even during the time period that this show is set in, Galadrial and Elrond are both over 6000 years old, which would put them in middle age, not babyface younglings.
    Last edited by Rennadrel; 2022-02-24 at 05:46 PM.

  3. #1163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    it was what fucked up the most in the warcraft movie, it was butchered to fit one hour/cinema standard
    The warcraft movie made the mistake of fitting the entirety of the first war of Warcraft into one movie, which was always going to be a fail. That shit needs a 10 episode series more a 1 hour 30 minute movie :P
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  4. #1164
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orby View Post
    The warcraft movie made the mistake of fitting the entirety of the first war of Warcraft into one movie, which was always going to be a fail. That shit needs a 10 episode series more a 1 hour 30 minute movie :P
    the movie amde a lot of mistakes, but it was possible if they didn't add shit like garona and lothar romance and of course, cutting almost a hour of movie

  5. #1165
    Blizzard missed the forest for the trees when they ordered that the Warcraft movie start with the First War. A movie with a budget of hundreds of millions behind it needs to cater to casual audiences, or else they're you're not going to make a profit. Blizzard got too caught up with their years of backstory lore and thought that they needed to start with WC1, when the First War has little appeal to casual audiences. From a casual's perspective, a WC1 movie would just be a retread of the "humans vs invading Orcish armies" story that LotR did (except with 3D CGI and a plot that wasn't written by Tolkien), and would thus be compared unfavorably. The First War isn't even what is unique about Warcraft. WC3 is what was unique about Warcraft. The story of an Orc reforming his society, or a human prince descending into evil and becoming a necromantic overlord would have been far more unique. Plus, the movie would aesthetically be more interesting to audiences.

  6. #1166
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    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    Blizzard missed the forest for the trees when they ordered that the Warcraft movie start with the First War. A movie with a budget of hundreds of millions behind it needs to cater to casual audiences, or else they're you're not going to make a profit. Blizzard got too caught up with their years of backstory lore and thought that they needed to start with WC1, when the First War has little appeal to casual audiences. From a casual's perspective, a WC1 movie would just be a retread of the "humans vs invading Orcish armies" story that LotR did (except with 3D CGI and a plot that wasn't written by Tolkien), and would thus be compared unfavorably. The First War isn't even what is unique about Warcraft. WC3 is what was unique about Warcraft. The story of an Orc reforming his society, or a human prince descending into evil and becoming a necromantic overlord would have been far more unique. Plus, the movie would aesthetically be more interesting to audiences.
    the theme and the first war was fine if they didn't butchered most lore bits, add new shit, and cut a lot of was done to fit one hour movie.

    It baffles me how the movie tried to be a warlords of draenor movie, with the forstwolves being the only good orcs and durotan doing everything, when he is a nobody, and Orgrin was supposed to be the guy who defeat blackhand and assume the horde in a better light.

    Undoubtedly the first war would be better as a series, but it could have worked if theytried a little hard

  7. #1167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    the movie amde a lot of mistakes, but it was possible if they didn't add shit like garona and lothar romance and of course, cutting almost a hour of movie
    If they wanted to do the first war that could have perfectly fit into a movie they should have cut the fat and base it off of the Last Guardian novel by Jeff Grubb, which is more self contained retelling of the first war, while offering a horror look at the orcs coming. Of course you would then cut out all the orc sympathy side of thing, but to be honest the first movie should have portrayed the orcs as these scary monsters from another world and leave the good orc side until the next movie.

    The movies biggest mistake was trying to squeeze too much into one movie.
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  8. #1168
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    lets try this again, as a basic rule as long as the character’s story isn’t tied to there race.

    I couldn't care less about character Descriptions unless they tie into the story of the character.
    When it comes to stuff like Tolkien, a character's story tends to be very tied to their race.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dellis0991 View Post
    As a black man I wish they could've added a story based on the people Far Harad and shed some light on the their rebellion against Sauron, hell they could've given a name to the Haradrim that lead the rebellion and the 2 Blue wizards. Whoever wrote script and cast the roles ignored a gold mine of possible stories that could've been a hit. But I'll be fair and reserve my judgement until after I see a few episodes.
    I had the exact same thoughts. If they wanted diversity so much, well, it already existed in the books. It might be a plausible idea for the heroes to run into some Haradrim or Easterling rebels fleeing from their brethren who still serve evil. But they had to start blackfacing Dwarves and Elves instead.

  9. #1169
    Quote Originally Posted by Dunachar View Post
    When it comes to stuff like Tolkien, a character's story tends to be very tied to their race.



    I had the exact same thoughts. If they wanted diversity so much, well, it already existed in the books. It might be a plausible idea for the heroes to run into some Haradrim or Easterling rebels fleeing from their brethren who still serve evil. But they had to start blackfacing Dwarves and Elves instead.
    You literally contradicted your first sentence with your next paragraph. If the Haradrim/Easterlings were of two minds on whether or not to serve Sauron - then their story isn't tied to their race.

    The Elves weren't a monolith, neither were the Dwarves, obviously neither were any human kingdom.

  10. #1170
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunachar View Post
    When it comes to stuff like Tolkien, a character's story tends to be very tied to their race.
    Actual races=/= fantasy races.

    in this context can you name any instances where a dwarf or elf's story is tied to them being white?
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  11. #1171
    It's more species than race, really.

    Species would be something like elf, dwarf, human, etc.

    Whereas race would be more akin to something like elves being divided into Noldor, Teleri, Vanyar, etc. which is more akin to something like real-world skin colors and phenotypes (though of course those tend to be a lot more fuzzy around the borders than "races" in fantasy works).

  12. #1172
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    Actual races=/= fantasy races.

    in this context can you name any instances where a dwarf or elf's story is tied to them being white?
    Isn't fantasy races specifically species? Like a human to an orc, or orc to an elf, that's species isn't it? a human to a different human, orc to a different orc, and elf to a different elf, thats race. Doesn't race revolve around something the same as you but divided into culture and skin colour. We don't call bears a different race to us because they are not human!

    Not sure where this racial thing came from when regarding what is technically species in fantasy. If aliens landed on earth are they a race? or a species? Its the same thing in fantasy... They really ned to change that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    It's more species than race, really.

    Species would be something like elf, dwarf, human, etc.

    Whereas race would be more akin to something like elves being divided into Noldor, Teleri, Vanyar, etc. which is more akin to something like real-world skin colors and phenotypes (though of course those tend to be a lot more fuzzy around the borders than "races" in fantasy works).
    beat me to it :P
    Last edited by Orby; 2022-04-09 at 12:13 PM.
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  13. #1173
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orby View Post
    Isn't fantasy races specifically species? Like a human to an orc, or orc to an elf, that's species isn't it? a human to a different human, orc to a different orc, and elf to a different elf, thats race. Doesn't race revolve around something the same as you but divided into culture and skin colour. We don't call bears a different race to us because they are not human!

    Not sure where this racial thing came from when regarding what is technically species in fantasy. If aliens landed on earth are they a race? or a species? Its the same thing in fantasy... They really ned to change that.



    beat me to it :P
    Ya it is all different species though in the context of fantasy the two words are used interchangeably.

    As far as the chains of rely go o believe it started with some one asking what if shaft was remade but white and my answer was as long as there race (real race not species) isn’t tires to there story I wouldn’t care and as far as LoTR goes dwarfs and elfs don’t have any story’s tied to race that would be impacted by a black or any other non whitemane actor playing them.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  14. #1174
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    I wouldn’t care and as far as LoTR goes dwarfs and elfs don’t have any story’s tied to race that would be impacted by a black or any other non whitemane actor playing them.

    Becuse that will involve a massive immigration and later emigration (alternative genocide) Tolkin did not wrote about. Sure you can change it, but then you can do a new ip like Elfquest, that have dark/brown skinned elfs.

    How will you react if a story about native americans (pre-columbus) have black peopel in it? Especially if the story was a attempt to re-create the history myths that was lost during the colonization of america?
    Last edited by Fantomen; 2022-04-09 at 10:07 PM.

  15. #1175
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantomen View Post
    Becuse that will involve a massive immigration and later emigration (alternative genocide) Tolkin did not wrote about. Sure you can change it, but then you can do a new ip like Elfquest, that have dark/brown skinned elfs.

    How will you react if a story about native americans (pre-columbus) have black peopel in it? Especially if the story was a attempt to re-create the history myths that was lost during the colonization of america?
    It wouldn't require either of those things either as a stand alone product or a actual cannon tie in to the LoTR movies as the movies don't show dawrf or elf civilization at large outside of like one elf army.

    also Tolkin didn't wire any of this that's the whole point of the show they don't have the rights to most of the stuff tolken wrote so there making something with what little they do have.

    and ya I have no problem if a show about pre colonial native myths had black people in it unless there going for super strict historical accuracy based on real myths/legends passed down, something Lotr's very much isn't.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  16. #1176
    I love how people celebrate Hollywood bastardizing stories to fit current political agenda instead of pushing them to create new stories, sad state of affairs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xarim View Post
    It's a strange and illogical world where not wanting your 10 year old daughter looking at female-identifying pre-op penises at the YMCA could feasibly be considered transphobic.

  17. #1177
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bledgor View Post
    I love how people celebrate Hollywood bastardizing stories to fit current political agenda instead of pushing them to create new stories, sad state of affairs.
    Ignoring that this is a new story just set in a existing universe, If black people simply existing in roles that have nothing to do with race is bastardizing stories to you that kind of says alot.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  18. #1178
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    Ignoring that this is a new story just set in a existing universe, If black people simply existing in roles that have nothing to do with race is bastardizing stories to you that kind of says alot.
    New story set in a universe with rules, there is a reason they had a COMPLETELY different script while Christopher Tolkein was alive and completely revamped it upon his death. I also never said anything about black people, seems racism is the only thing on your mind, says a lot about you.

    Though the fact you think giving black people token roles in a setting they weren't originally in shows you are completely okay with it, pretty racist to me. Also if Hollywood really gave a shit about diversity and representation, they should have less blacks and more Hispanics, and Asians, black people tend to be over represented in movies.
    Last edited by bledgor; 2022-04-10 at 04:16 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xarim View Post
    It's a strange and illogical world where not wanting your 10 year old daughter looking at female-identifying pre-op penises at the YMCA could feasibly be considered transphobic.

  19. #1179
    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    Do we really need more of this whinging from fragile people when it's already been done to death in so many other threads and this one? Just don't fucking watch it when it finally comes out, months from now.
    Lol, being upset with people shitting on another mans legacy isn't fragile, demanding changes in a story because of your beliefs is fragile. If you don't like the conversation feel free to not read/post/engage on the thread. YOU CHOOSE to be here, don't bitch about it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xarim View Post
    It's a strange and illogical world where not wanting your 10 year old daughter looking at female-identifying pre-op penises at the YMCA could feasibly be considered transphobic.

  20. #1180
    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    You choose to bitch and moan on a dead man's behalf.
    Your right, I am here on behalf of a war hero and the most renowned fantasy author ever, while people destroy the world he built, because its fucking disgusting how up their own asses people are that they think they know best, and they need to change everything. Its fucking hubris and arrogance on an unmatched scale.

    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    Also, while I'm here, you may not have explicitly stated anything to do with race originally, but you quite clearly were talking about that specific "political agenda." Especially when you got so defensive in your next post and had to try project the racism onto others lol
    Not projecting, they are projecting. I have more issues with warrior Glardrial and the lack of Celebron which I have said in this thread. I do point out the other shit they have needlessly injected into the show, because might as well point out bullshit, especially when Hollywood wants to pretend they care when really its tokenism at its worst.

    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    But yeah, we're done. There is a reason I don't venture into this part of the forum much, because it's populated by fragile children like you crying over anything that might have changed in some bit of media instead of just enjoying it, or heaven forbid, just not engaging with it if it upsets you so much. Nothing at all to do with me disliking a conversation, there is no conversation. It's just impotent whining over nothing that's been done a million times before.

    "YOU CHOOSE to be here, don't bitch about" indeed.
    I could bother to respond to this, but honestly you aren't worth the brain cells. Bye bye.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xarim View Post
    It's a strange and illogical world where not wanting your 10 year old daughter looking at female-identifying pre-op penises at the YMCA could feasibly be considered transphobic.

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