Lord of the Rings TV Series Purchased by Amazon

[Gumble]

It'd be the height of irony if this turns out to be poorly written fan-fiction.

How would that be ironic?

Going by the vast majority of adapted stories in the past 5+ years, how many of them have been anything but poorly written fan-fiction? They almost all end up this way with only a small group of online trolls shilling for them, who generally don't even watch the shows in question.



Honestly, its more ironic if after ALL OF THE NEGATIVE PRESS for this show, it turned out to be utterly faithful to Tolkien and was liked by lots of people.

[Dhrizzle]

It's already been established that the showrunners don't really care about the integrity of the world Tolkien created so things like this are to be expected.

Is that your opinion on Peter Jackson's LotR trilogy too? Genuinely curious as a lot of people who seem to care about the purity of Tolkien's vision are more than happy to handwave changes Jackson made while railing against Amazon.

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How would that be ironic?

Going by the vast majority of adapted stories in the past 5+ years, how many of them have been anything but poorly written fan-fiction? They almost all end up this way with only a small group of online trolls shilling for them, who generally don't even watch the shows in question.



Honestly, its more ironic if after ALL OF THE NEGATIVE PRESS for this show, it turned out to be utterly faithful to Tolkien and was liked by lots of people.

The Boys, Good Omens and The Expanse were all pretty good. American Gods started strong at least.

[Infinity Cubed]

Going by the vast majority of adapted stories in the past 5+ years, how many of them have been anything but poorly written fan-fiction?

Quite a few, actually.

But most of those were passion projects by people who wanted to adapt them. The problem here is a shitty company secured rights to a property because they're just desperate to create a new Game of Thrones. That's how you end up with drek like what this is almost assuredly going to be. It only adds to the garbage when they then go on to hire people for their names rather than their interest in the actual property; see anything Michael Bay or J.J. Abrams put their disgusting hands on, such as The Transformers and Star Wars/Trek.

It extends past adaptations, too. For example, it's why a show like The Mandalorian rocks while the entire sequel Star Wars trilogy was utter tripe.

[DarkAmbient]

Is that your opinion on Peter Jackson's LotR trilogy too? Genuinely curious as a lot of people who seem to care about the purity of Tolkien's vision are more than happy to handwave changes Jackson made while railing against Amazon.

Peter Jackson and Amazon did/are doing different things. One had to condense an encyclopaedic body of existing work into movie format. The other is creating something new-ish based on Tolkien's work and doesn't have to make the same kind of choices as Jackson did. He had no choice but to make significant omissions and other alterations so that the movies would work. Amazon don't really need to do that. I didn't like or agree with some of the things he did but the LotR films were still great (didn't really like the Hobbit ones all that much tbh, only saw them once), and, crucially, it was clear that he had a genuine love and respect for Tolkien's work.

[Dhrizzle]

Peter Jackson and Amazon did/are doing different things. One had to condense an encyclopaedic body of existing work into movie format. The other is creating something new-ish based on Tolkien's work and doesn't have to make the same kind of choices as Jackson did. He had no choice but to make significant omissions and other alterations so that the movies would work. Amazon don't really need to do that. I didn't like or agree with some of the things he did but the LotR films were still great (didn't really like the Hobbit ones all that much tbh, only saw them once), and, crucially, it was clear that he had a genuine love and respect for Tolkien's work.

That's what I expected - Peter Jackson gives plate armour to Gondor = genuine love and respect for Tolkien's work.
Amazon gives plate armour to elves = don't really care about the integrity of the world.

[Biomega]

Is that your opinion on Peter Jackson's LotR trilogy too? Genuinely curious as a lot of people who seem to care about the purity of Tolkien's vision are more than happy to handwave changes Jackson made while railing against Amazon.

I mean, plenty of people also criticized/criticize Jackson's vision. ESPECIALLY where it diverged from the original materials (the whole Faramir storyline etc.). I guess it's less visible because it was two decades ago, and also because the internet has come a long way since. There'd be no shortage of people screaming bloody murder if it was happening in the present day. I'm sure there'd be entire subreddits dedicated to the fact that Frodo looks too young alone

That being said, the aesthetic of the LotR movies looked if not more accurate then at least more organic. It fit its world better, whether or not that world was an accurate representation of JRR's works. Granted - it could just be the artificiality of touched-up promotional shots that's the culprit here. We haven't seen the actual show yet. Stills can only convey so much, and often distort.

[Dhrizzle]

I mean, plenty of people also criticized/criticize Jackson's vision. ESPECIALLY where it diverged from the original materials (the whole Faramir storyline etc.). I guess it's less visible because it was two decades ago, and also because the internet has come a long way since. There'd be no shortage of people screaming bloody murder if it was happening in the present day. I'm sure there'd be entire subreddits dedicated to the fact that Frodo looks too young alone

That being said, the aesthetic of the LotR movies looked if not more accurate then at least more organic. It fit its world better, whether or not that world was an accurate representation of JRR's works. Granted - it could just be the artificiality of touched-up promotional shots that's the culprit here. We haven't seen the actual show yet. Stills can only convey so much, and often distort.

I understand there are Tolkien purists out there who are deeply critical of Jackson's films (Christopher Tolkien was downright scathing,) and also that it's possible to enjoy them and think they did a good job converting the general story to the big screen.What annoy me is the double standards, and pretending that RoP is more disrespectful with its choices.

[DarkAmbient]

That's what I expected - Peter Jackson gives plate armour to Gondor = genuine love and respect for Tolkien's work.
Amazon gives plate armour to elves = don't really care about the integrity of the world.

You're being a little bit disingenuous there. I said it had "already been established that the showrunners don't really care about the integrity of the world Tolkien created", not that the armour was the sole reason for saying that.

[Dhrizzle]

You're being a little bit disingenuous there. I said it had "already been established that the showrunners don't really care about the integrity of the world Tolkien created", not that the armour was the sole reason for saying that.

Except that hasn't been established at all, there's been nothing that shows the creators of the Amazon series don't have the same love and respect for Tolkien's work.

[Biomega]

I understand there are Tolkien purists out there who are deeply critical of Jackson's films (Christopher Tolkien was downright scathing,) and also that it's possible to enjoy them and think they did a good job converting the general story to the big screen.What annoy me is the double standards, and pretending that RoP is more disrespectful with its choices.

It's hard to gauge properly because we haven't actually, you know, seen the show. The promotional materials we HAVE seen are almost unequivocally worse than the LotR films, but that could have any number of reasons (them being highly touched-up promotional shots being chief among them). I don't think it's super hypocritical to say that from what he have actually seen, it looks worse and less accurate than the film trilogy; whether or not that'll hold for the actual series as well we cannot say yet.

[BeepBoo]

Not every story needs to be told the way it was in the books, you just shit on something because they didnt follow the book version to the letter, nothing wrong with an adaptation of the series telling the story a different way, doesnt change the fact that many tv series are still good regardless of what the hardcore fanbase seem to think.

Nah, respect the source to the T if you're telling something with a source. Otherwise, I'm happy to let franchises use all the lore and world building to tell completely new and novel series in the same universe. But anything else? Fuck no.

The worst person to judge anything is the hardcore fan as they are completely biased.

Nope.

[s_bushido]

It's already been established that the showrunners don't really care about the integrity of the world Tolkien created so things like this are to be expected.

If that's already "been established," I wonder if you could even cite any passages from Tolkien's work that describe what sort of armor they're supposed to be wearing.

[Shadowferal]

The most important thing we know about elvish armor is really only important because it’s so different from what we see in the Peter Jackson movies: the elves are never mentioned as having plate armor. In fact, it doesn’t seem likely that any of Middle Earth’s warriors wore plate armor (though this is debated a bit by fans that know way more about armor than I do.) Instead, the armor that Tolkien always mentions is armor made of chain mail. Occasionally some other “plate-ish” pieces are mentioned, such as vambraces (which cover the forearms) and helmets (which were definitely common, as Tolkien mentions helmets on many occasions.) But, in general, I think that the most “accurate” depiction of elvish armor would be based more on chain mail with little to no plate armor. Shields would also be used pretty commonly (and we know for sure that Gil-galad had a shield, so it stands to reason that other elves of the Second Age would as well.)
That being said, it’s said time and again that the elves were the best at making weapons and armor, and were leagues ahead of anything men could make. So, since any “real world” references are obviously man-made, it stands to reason that elvish armor would be… well, better. So a direct reproduction of “real world” armor wouldn’t be accurate, since it’s implied that the elves could do way better that that. Which gives you a fair bit of artistic license, I guess.

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https://askmiddlearth.tumblr.com/pos...2/elvish-armor

[Dhrizzle]

The most important thing we know about elvish armor is really only important because it’s so different from what we see in the Peter Jackson movies: the elves are never mentioned as having plate armor. In fact, it doesn’t seem likely that any of Middle Earth’s warriors wore plate armor (though this is debated a bit by fans that know way more about armor than I do.) Instead, the armor that Tolkien always mentions is armor made of chain mail. Occasionally some other “plate-ish” pieces are mentioned, such as vambraces (which cover the forearms) and helmets (which were definitely common, as Tolkien mentions helmets on many occasions.) But, in general, I think that the most “accurate” depiction of elvish armor would be based more on chain mail with little to no plate armor. Shields would also be used pretty commonly (and we know for sure that Gil-galad had a shield, so it stands to reason that other elves of the Second Age would as well.)
That being said, it’s said time and again that the elves were the best at making weapons and armor, and were leagues ahead of anything men could make. So, since any “real world” references are obviously man-made, it stands to reason that elvish armor would be… well, better. So a direct reproduction of “real world” armor wouldn’t be accurate, since it’s implied that the elves could do way better that that. Which gives you a fair bit of artistic license, I guess.

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https://askmiddlearth.tumblr.com/pos...2/elvish-armor

So the artistic license taken in giving elves plate armour is the same the LotR trilogy took giving Gondorians plate armour.

[s_bushido]

So the artistic license taken in giving elves plate armour is the same the LotR trilogy took giving Gondorians plate armour.

I mean hell, of all the problems with the ridiculous Hobbit movies, I don't think the Mirkwood elves running around in their bright shiny plate armor was one I ever saw people making a big deal over.

[Lady Atia]

I hope you don't think the stuff in the Jackson movies are the first/only concepts of what elves would wear.

Besides the fact that elves in the lotr movies did wear plate armour too.

[DarkAmbient]

Except that hasn't been established at all, there's been nothing that shows the creators of the Amazon series don't have the same love and respect for Tolkien's work.

Strongly disagree, based on the promo material released thus far.

[Lady Atia]

Strongly disagree, based on the promo material released thus far.

Strongly disagree with you disagreeing, based on the promo material released thus far. Or are you just mad that we have black elves and dwarfes now?^^

[Dhrizzle]

Strongly disagree, based on the promo material released thus far.

Do you have examples or just a vague and baseless feeling?

[MCMLXXXII]

Do you have examples or just a vague and baseless feeling?

All that promo material. 20 pictures and a teaser