1. #1341
    Quote Originally Posted by bledgor View Post
    You disproved none of my points. But whatever you want as long as you get what you want fuck the written word I guess. Even going so far to be cute with Celeborn. No wonder I had you ignored, back to that, ain't got time for that level of ignorance.
    I'm not saying "fuck the written word," I'm explaining that there are lots of conflicting written words and no obligation for the show to follow the parts you have decided you prefer.

  2. #1342
    It would honestly be fascinating to have a series set in Harad could focus on how the Southrons ended up allying with Sauron.

  3. #1343
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    These era elves are supposed to be looking young, yes.

    In the beginning, men and elves were immortal. Men sinned (by worshipping Morgoth and blaspheming against Eru) and were thus were cursed and became frail and had short lifespans. Elves didn't. However, Morgoth imbued the whole world with a little bit of his being. A person who eats an apple consumes a tiny bit of Morgoth's evil. These trace amounts of corruption are so small that they weren't apparent early on. However, by the time of LotR (set at the end of the Third Age), the effects of thousands of years of accumulated corruption starts becoming noticeable on the elves. This show takes place during the Second Age so the accumulated corruption shouldn't be noticeable yet.
    Almoust everything you just said is wrong to a point of nausea
    Modern gaming apologist: I once tasted diarrhea so shit is fine.

    "People who alter or destroy works of art and our cultural heritage for profit or as an excercise of power, are barbarians" - George Lucas 1988

  4. #1344
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilian View Post
    Almoust everything you just said is wrong to a point of nausea
    And yet you failed to debunk what he said, so the only fool here is you.

  5. #1345
    Merely a Setback Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rennadrel View Post
    And yet you failed to debunk what he said, so the only fool here is you.
    another poster seems to have done that already.

    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post53799677
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  6. #1346
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    Man as some one who’s not at all invested in LoTR coming back to this thread is always a wild wide it’s the same people complaining about how it goes against Tolkien‘s work with nothing to back it up only to get continually smacked down by more informed people and then to run away and repeat it in a few months.
    thats how I feel about Star wars. havent even seen the original 3 movies but love watching the fan rage, way more entertaining than the series itself.

  7. #1347
    Quote Originally Posted by Orby View Post
    John Hurt still the best Aragorn... fite me :P



    Who was drawn as a Native American I may add lol
    Nothing says "Native American" like being voiced by a White Englishman.
    On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.

    - H. L. Mencken

  8. #1348
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Midnight Bomber View Post
    Nothing says "Native American" like being voiced by a White Englishman.
    as is the way
    I love Warcraft, I dislike WoW

    Unsubbed since January 2021, now a Warcraft fan from a distance

  9. #1349
    Can't wait to see strong Orc women showing Elves and Humans who's boss.
    https://www.ign.com/articles/rings-of-power-female-orcs
    The absolute state of Warcraft lore in 2021:
    Kyrians: We need to keep chucking people into the Maw because it's our job.
    Also Kyrians: Why is the Maw growing stronger despite all our efforts?

  10. #1350
    hmf...I wonder if they'll remember that orcs don't like light.

  11. #1351
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerovar View Post
    Can't wait to see strong Orc women showing Elves and Humans who's boss.
    https://www.ign.com/articles/rings-of-power-female-orcs
    I wanted to reply with something cheeky to your joke, yet the reality is you're probably exactly right.

    I bet they're absolutely going to make sympathetic orcs and use them to allude to current real world politics, like they are oppressed persons or something.

  12. #1352
    Quote Originally Posted by Al Gorefiend View Post
    I wanted to reply with something cheeky to your joke, yet the reality is you're probably exactly right.

    I bet they're absolutely going to make sympathetic orcs and use them to allude to current real world politics, like they are oppressed persons or something.
    Yeah when they talk about great scenes with women orcs somehow I doubt they are going to make them pure evil unfortunately even though they should be after being twisted.

  13. #1353
    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    Yeah when they talk about great scenes with women orcs somehow I doubt they are going to make them pure evil unfortunately even though they should be after being twisted.
    --------------------------
    It is not true actually of the Orcs [that they are a "creation of evil"] – who are fundamentally a race of 'rational incarnate'
    creatures, though horribly corrupted, if no more so than many Men to be met today.
    They would be Morgoth's greatest Sins, abuses of his highest privilege, and would
    be creatures begotten of Sin, and naturally bad. (I nearly wrote 'irredeemably bad'; but that would be
    going too far. Because by accepting or tolerating their making – necessary to their actual existence
    – even Orcs would become part of the World, which is God's and ultimately good.) But whether
    they could have 'souls' or 'spirits' seems a different question; and since in my myth at any rate I do
    not conceive of the making of souls or spirits, things of an equal order if not an equal power to the
    Valar, as a possible 'delegation', I have represented at least the Orcs as pre-existing real beings on
    whom the Dark Lord has exerted the fullness of his power in remodelling and corrupting them, not
    making them. That God would 'tolerate' that, seems no worse theology than the toleration of the
    calculated dehumanizing of Men by tyrants that goes on today.
    Seems like Tolkien put a lot more thought into this stuff than """fans""" of his work care to. Imagine that.

  14. #1354
    Quote Originally Posted by s_bushido View Post
    --------------------------




    Seems like Tolkien put a lot more thought into this stuff than """fans""" of his work care to. Imagine that.
    This quote is saying they are evil so..
    Just not created to be evil as God does not create evil, they were twisted to be by Morgoth. The "pre-existing real beings" being Elves.

    I'm not sure Tolkien thought ahead enough to think someday his IP would be hijacked by producers looking to bankroll on people's nostalgia.

    Even doubly ironic, it's not Tolkien's actual vision this show will be capitalizing off of and drawing source material from - its Peter Jackson's. Because they aren't actually going to be writing screenplay for the Silmarillion, thats a book only the few diehard fans show interest in. They are spinning off of the LotR trilogy that made big hollywood money, looking to slice a piece for themselves.

    But anyone who is a fan of LotR enough to have read the books is already aware Peter Jackson only loosely stuck to the source material, and the hobbit trilogy again attempted to capitalize on the success of the original trilogy to mixed reception.

    I guess it's up to the individual to decide just how much deviation from someone's original story is enough to justify calling it fanfic. Hobbit was a made for Hollywood bastardizing of a slim book, this Amazon show I would consider entirely fanfic. I'm not saying it will be bad, but I am predicting it won't be good.

  15. #1355
    Quote Originally Posted by Al Gorefiend View Post
    thats how I feel about Star wars. havent even seen the original 3 movies but love watching the fan rage, way more entertaining than the series itself.
    Yeah, i dont know anyone who loved and grew upp with Tolkien that isnt excited about this show. All the hate and drama is hilarious.

    Some even think they are "protecting and defending" Tokiens honor. Like, daym..

  16. #1356
    Merely a Setback Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al Gorefiend View Post
    This quote is saying they are evil so..
    Just not created to be evil as God does not create evil, they were twisted to be by Morgoth. The "pre-existing real beings" being Elves.
    Looking at it this part of the quote it seems to imply that while they are evil they don't have to be and they have the capacity to become part of the rest of the world and be good even if it doesn't come naturally to them.

    I nearly wrote 'irredeemably bad'; but that would be
    going too far. Because by accepting or tolerating their making – necessary to their actual existence
    – even Orcs would become part of the World, which is God's and ultimately good.
    But of course my reading could be totally off lacking greater context.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  17. #1357
    Quote Originally Posted by Askyl View Post
    Yeah, i dont know anyone who loved and grew upp with Tolkien that isnt excited about this show. All the hate and drama is hilarious.

    Some even think they are "protecting and defending" Tokiens honor. Like, daym..
    Really because every single Tolkein fan I know of think its a nostalgia cash grab from one of the worst mega corporations to exist.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xarim View Post
    It's a strange and illogical world where not wanting your 10 year old daughter looking at female-identifying pre-op penises at the YMCA could feasibly be considered transphobic.

  18. #1358
    Or, and hear me out, there's LOTR fans out there, like me, who don't judge media before it actually comes out, recognizing that PR and promotional material is often bad and unfinished, or overexposed, or just outright misleading.

    Like the amount of vitriol that gets spewed on these projects before they ever come out makes me wonder how y'all get through a normal day in the real world. And the idea that "megacorporations have corrupted media" as if Peter Jackson's LOTR trilogy wasn't made by a megacorporation called New Line Cinema, or every film since Spielberg et al created blockbuster cinema in the late 70s wasn't the product of some massive production company, is comical.

  19. #1359
    Quote Originally Posted by Al Gorefiend View Post
    This quote is saying they are evil so..
    And he literally says in that same letter that even Sauron wasn't irredeemable:

    Sauron was of course not 'evil' in origin. He was a 'spirit' corrupted by the Prime Dark Lord (the
    Prime sub-creative Rebel) Morgoth. He was given an opportunity of repentance, when Morgoth was
    overcome, but could not face the humiliation of recantation, and suing for pardon; and so his
    temporary turn to good and 'benevolence' ended in a greater relapse, until he became the main
    representative of Evil of later ages.
    So... Please, tell me more about how it's impossible for orcs in Tolkien's universe to be portrayed in some sympathetic light.

    And spare me the delusional rants about "fanfics." Unless the screenplay is being written by the original author, even the most faithful adaptations are just glorified fanfic.
    Last edited by s_bushido; 2022-06-23 at 04:50 AM.

  20. #1360
    Quote Originally Posted by Al Gorefiend View Post
    I'm not sure Tolkien thought ahead enough to think someday his IP would be hijacked by producers looking to bankroll on people's nostalgia.
    It's bizarre that people nowadays are so wrapped up in the idea of their childhood stories being some sort of sacred text that should not be tampered with. For thousands of years people have been retelling and re-imagining classic stories, from the mythologies of the ancient world, to the sagas of the middle ages, to the classic works of people like Shakespeare, Austen, Poe, Dickens, and so many others in between and since.

    Tolkien built a mythology of his own, but took plenty of inspiration from those that came before him. I'm sure if he knew how his works have endured, evolved, and inspired other storytellers he'd be elated. The best stories and characters stand the test of time not because they are perfect ONLY in their original form, but rather because they present themes, teach lessons, and create worlds that can be adapted. Things like "elves are always white skinned" and "orcs are always evil" are hardly the defining pillars of Tolkien's work.

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