Amazon waited for Christopher Tolkien to die before they began shitting on Tolkien's legacy. The day Christopher Tolkien died, they fired the actors, recast the show, and completely changed it. They gloated on twitter about it. While his body was still warm. That tells you everything you need to know about how despicable these people are. It absolutely is about destroying Tolkien.
during the siege of minas tirith and the battle of the pellennor fields, prior to any troops taking the field Sauron sent forth a great storm cloud to cover the land between the mountains of Ephel Dúath and the city of minas tirith, in order to shroud the sunlight from the marching hordes of orcs and other fell creatures that answered Saurons call to war. it is Goblins that have the best time in the sun of all the 'evil creatures' of the world, goblins of middle earth were usually great hulking creatures with thick leathery skin and great muscle mass, what you're getting confused about are the small little moria screechers which are more akin to orcs than to goblins.
It never cease to amaze me how people already have their verdict ready when not a single second has aired yet.
I kinda liked the screenshots of the new orcs. Weren't the orcs spawned from elves after all.
The LOTR movies of bulky warriors (not talking about Uruk-hai) with twice the body mass made no sense to me.
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Dont bring US GOP politics into this thread please
Last edited by Bakis; 2022-06-24 at 04:12 AM.
But soon after Mr Xi secured a third term, Apple released a new version of the feature in China, limiting its scope. Now Chinese users of iPhones and other Apple devices are restricted to a 10-minute window when receiving files from people who are not listed as a contact. After 10 minutes, users can only receive files from contacts.
Apple did not explain why the update was first introduced in China, but over the years, the tech giant has been criticised for appeasing Beijing.
I don't remember them showing orcs that were that much bigger than what you'd expect from a juiced human/elf. Well...there were those couple of hero orcs in the Hobbit movies, but it seems pretty easy to explain the handful of large ones by them receiving extra favor/power from their dark lord, or evolution over thousands of years of combat.
Last edited by s_bushido; 2022-06-24 at 05:14 AM.
Lifelong Tolkien fan here. This about perfectly sums up how I feel about it:
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As someone who has read Tolkien's works, his take on Galadriel was never fixed and the precise details of her history wandered over the years, but here are a few of his words on her,
"[Galadriel] was then of Amazon disposition and bound up her hair as a crown when taking part in athletic feats"and"she with Celeborn fought heroically in defence of Alqualondë against the assault of the Noldor,""She fought fiercely in defence of her motherkin against Feanor"Galadriel, despairing now of Valinor and horrified by the violence and cruelty of Feanor, set sail into the darkness without waiting for Manwe’s leave, which would undoubtedly have been withheld in that hour, however legitimate her desire in itself. It was thus that she came under the ban set upon all departure, and Valinor was shut against her return.And finally, in the Appendices of LotR,Pride still moved her when, at the end of the Elder Days after the final overthrow of Morgoth, she refused the pardon of the Valar for all who had fought against him, and remained in Middle Earth. It was not until two long ages more had passed, when at last all that she had desired in her youth came to her hand, the Ring of Power and the domination of Middle Earth of which she had dreamed, and her wisdom was full grown and she rejected it, and passing the last test departed from Middle Earth forever."when the Shadow passed, Celeborn came forth and led the host of Lórien over Anduin in many boats. They took Dol Guldur, and Galadriel threw down its walls and laid bare its pits, and the forest was cleansed."
All the above quotes are from Tolkien, at various places in the Legendarium. They describe a woman who:
Fought (as in elves killing elves with swords) her father's people because she despised what they were doing (stealing the Sea-Elves ships and killing them if they fought back).
Left the Blessed Realm by herself, defying the Gods and the elves alike.
Told the Gods "no thanks" when offered absolution and a return to paradise.
And finally, sans Ring, personally ripped Sauron's #2 stronghold apart.
Now, there's a lot of huge gaps in Tolkien's writings on Galadriel, particularly in the Second Age. For example, there's nothing about her actions during the Last Alliance, even though she's described as one of Sauron's greatest foes. But 'full of piss and vinegar' seems a very apt description of her younger self, many long centuries and centuries before the Fellowship meets her in Lothlorien. That doesn't mean the show will be good, but from the little they've shown so far, their depiction of, to quote the good Professor again, "the greatest of the Noldor, except Feanor maybe" seems fine.
"In today’s America, conservatives who actually want to conserve are as rare as liberals who actually want to liberate. The once-significant language of an earlier era has had the meaning sucked right out of it, the better to serve as camouflage for a kleptocratic feeding frenzy in which both establishment parties participate with equal abandon" (Taking a break from the criminal, incompetent liars at the NSA, to bring you the above political observation, from The Archdruid Report.)
Oh cool maybe we're gonna have a tear jerking romance between Elrond and a female orc lady fighting against the tyranny of her dark lord and patriarchy society.
Yes, wouldn't surprise me anymore.
I think its in the Hobbit where its mentioned that neither like daylight, but by Lord of the Rings its only mentioned that away about Goblins, where as Orcs can come out in daylight (with the whole cloud of darkness thing). I know that in the movies both Goblins and Orcs were seen in light, so maybe I am getting my wires crossed somewhere, its been a while since i went over the books. :P
I love Warcraft, I dislike WoW
Unsubbed since January 2021, now a Warcraft fan from a distance
The thing with Rings of Power is by concentrating on the Second Age they have more of a blank canvas to work with. Tolkien never finalised the exact events of those times and several conflicting accounts and ideas exist for the writers to play around with. If nothing else I'm very interested to see which of Tolkien's writings they will draw inspiration from.
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The people I see complaining mostly seem to be fans of internet drama or people who think Tolkien was just a scriptwriter for Peter Jackson's Lord of the Rings.
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"I had a mind to make a body of more or less connected legend, ranging from the large and cosmogonic, to the level of romantic fairy-story - the larger founded on the lesser in contact with the earth, the lesser drawing splendour from the vast backcloths - which I could dedicate simply to: to England; to my country. ... I would draw some of the great tales in fullness, and leave many only placed in the scheme, and sketched. The cycles should be linked to a majestic whole, and yet leave scope for other minds and hands, wielding paint and music and drama."
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Except Tolkien never wrote a finished story for this time period, outside of the LotR appendix there are just lots of unpublished notes that frequently contradict themselves as his ideas changed in the decades following LotR being published.
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Orcs and goblins are synonymous in Tolkien's world, though goblins often seem different as that term is mostly used in The Hobbit which is a children's book retconned into his Middle Earth myths after publishing.
Anyway it's just sunlight that the Orcs hate as it comes from the Valar. Originally it had something to do with the Orcs being created before the sun but Tolkien apparently planned to change the cosmology so it always existed, dunno if he intended for that to change the orcs' relationship to the sun.
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Isn't it more respectful to look at Tolkien's ideas and fill in the stories he never got around to completing, rather than taking the stories he had completed and changing them foe your own purposes?
If they do follow Tolkien's ideas about Orcs not being completely irredeemable this time period is probably the best stage for it. Many Orcs at this point are homeless and masterless following the War of Wrath, a good time to show them more deserving of pity than loathing.
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Other Maia (including Sauron) were given the chance to repent so it stands to reason the Balrogs would have been too, though it seems that for their spirits to clothe themselves as Balrogs requires a dedication to Morgoth such that they would never accept forgiveness from the Valar.
All the Ainu were male or female in spirit though this was not necessarily reflected in their form and Tolkien didn't go in to enough detail to definitely say if they were gendered.
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It isn't directly based on Jackson's interpretation of LotR, it's their own thing based on the writings of Tolkien.
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I definitely disagree with you here. The more I read about the show the more it looks like the creators have been delving into the more obscure parts of what Tolkien wrote. That doesn't meant it will definitely be good but it will certainly be interesting.
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Maiar refers specifically to members of the Ainur who are lesser than the Valar. They took part in the music of Illuvatar before the creation of Arda and went down into the world to prepare it for the coming of the Children.
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That and your total lack of reference to what Tolkien had to say on the matter.
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At the time period Rings of Power is set the Orcs had been scattered following Morgoth's defeat and the destruction of Beleriand. This means they won't be seen in organised military groups as seen in LotR.
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All Elven women would fight in defence of their homes but generally it was only the men who would organise into attacking armies, the notable exceptions being Galadriel the "man-maiden."
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What a pile of absolute rot. The standout part is you not knowing that the Harfoots very much exist in Tolkien's work, though special mention has to go to your twisted logic that leaving racial discrimination out of the casting decisions somehow detracts from the escapism.
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I don't think Christopher Tolkien would have cared though. He was scathing enough about the LogR trilogy and had pretty much totally checked out by the time the Hobbits films came out.
It's not more "respectful" since we're not talking about "completing Tolkien's ideas" here. Tolkien never really humanised or redeemed his orcs. That has nothing to do with a lack of time or the fact that much of his work only exists in fragments. He simply didn't intend to because he knew it would heavily clash with the kind of stories he told. The only reason why he didn't describe the orcs as outright irredeemable was because of his Christian worldview that heavily influenced LOTR but in that context we're more talking about some kind of spiritual redemption. They are still "naturally bad" and irredeemable to Elves and Men.
The absolute state of Warcraft lore in 2021:
Kyrians: We need to keep chucking people into the Maw because it's our job.
Also Kyrians: Why is the Maw growing stronger despite all our efforts?
To be fair, we only saw that for Saruman's Uruk-Hai, which could be created entierly differently than normal Orcs. I imagine they could be more like lab/test-tube babies, or even clones or something rather than natural born Orcs, simply because they are said to be a fusion of Orcs and Men created through magic and alchemy.
#TEAMGIRAFFE
please show me the exact line of text in any of the Lord of the Rings books, or the Hobbit book where these creatures are mentioned to have lived during the years of the second age, don't worry i'll wait.
i still haven't seen anybody able to come up with a valid reason as to how a black dwarf could exist in the world when they live exclusively underground and rarely see sunlight, not to mention the lack of facial hair which is canon to exist and yet Amazon and these show runners seem to disagree with that, and the whole super elf with shaven head who would never have existed in the middle earth universe but somehow is a 'faithful adaptation' by these showrunners speaks volumes to your sycophancy, and then shoehorning in a taboo romance that's purely fan fiction, a rewritten galadriel who is purely fan fiction, and Elrond who is nothing like his canonical character once again a pure fabrication of fan fiction from these show runners, so tell me again with a straight face where i'm wrong and how this show is going to be the 'best thing ever' because i'm not seeing it.
The problem with that is that orcs would be immortal, and would definitely bring problems with his idea and concept of men and elvish afterlife. And, Everything Melkor/Morgoth created usually became more powerful, like dragons made out of lizards.
In fact, this was one of the theories he came up after the idea of corrupted elves, that orcs were beasts animated by the will of Morgoth, thus explanning their characters of smaller than men, more bruttish, with yellow eyes, fanged teeth and the nose.
Then there is theories that orcs were Fallen Maiar, who breed like Melian. Being fallen Maiar and "demonic/evil spirits" actually take direct context from the original meaning of the word orc/ork/orcenas who means "evil spirits" or spectres or even hell devil. which is funny cause there is Maiar who took the form of orcs in the lore afaik
From what i read about, the last letters of tolkien talk of how he was rewriting the first age, and so, leaning to the idea of orcs being corrupted men again.
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They didn't already straight up said, they will not take any of his writings as inspiration, and instead, create th story tolkien never did? like, from what i read, they can only use appendix B, so they rly don't have much, thats why they will make like events who take years apart to be quickly followed
Anyway it's just sunlight that the Orcs hate as it comes from the Valar. Originally it had something to do with the Orcs being created before the sun but Tolkien apparently planned to change the cosmology so it always existed, dunno if he intended for that to change the orcs' relationship to the sun.
Probably as some of then,(not counting the uruk-hai, didn't seem to be much affected by it.
Its also funny to see how much tolkiien was going to rewrite before he died
The Jackson interpretation for creating the hybrids comes from the very first draft of orc creation "bred by Morgoth from the heats and the slimes of the earth", but then he decided only Ilúvatar could create sentient lifeIt isn't directly based on Jackson's interpretation of LotR, it's their own thing based on the writings of Tolkien.
Good to point that out that without the influence of Morgoth, and the later influence of Sauron, the Orcs were pretty much independent in places like blue mountains, living a "normal society" who had their own conflicts against each other and other races.At the time period Rings of Power is set the Orcs had been scattered following Morgoth's defeat and the destruction of Beleriand. This means they won't be seen in organised military groups as seen in LotR.