Lord of the Rings TV Series Purchased by Amazon

[Adamas102]

Based on past experience, and with the MANY examples of wokeness causing the downfall of franchises over the last 8-10 years now...

Unless you’re making up your own definition of “wokeness”, it hasn’t caused the downfall of ANY franchises. That’s just the excuse of ignorant, narrow-minded people.

[Fuiking]

It is scraps when you want to make a show about the Second Age: From The Lord of the Rings, you get some accounts from Aragorn, Elrond or Gandalf and a few short lines in the appendices covering hundreds of years, and from The Hobbit, nothing at all.

But lets face it: all we know about the Second Age is sketchy at best. Even if we look at Akkalabêth, in The Silmarillion, it is not much. Especially if the show's story begins after the Downfall of Númenor. You could find more information in the Book of Lost Tales or Unfinished Tales, but even then it is rather sketchy and even contradictory (especially concerning Galadriel, where she was, when and where she met Celeborn and who the heck was even Celeborn?). But the Tolkien Estate didn't give them the rights to use these sources. Which means that it gives much leeway to the creators of the show. So of course it will be different from what we know (or think we know) about that time period and what the characters were doing. We should not consider this an adaptation, but treat the show as its own thing, on its own merits. Maybe it will be good, maybe it will suck. But whatever it is, contrary to what some have said, it won't destroy Tolkien's work. The books will remain there, unsullied, for everyone to enjoy.

its sketchy because up to Tolkiens dead the changed shit. *cough Elendur says hi*

[rogoth]

Unless you’re making up your own definition of “wokeness”, it hasn’t caused the downfall of ANY franchises. That’s just the excuse of ignorant, narrow-minded people.

that's entirely your own opinion, and yet the numbers are there and there have been countless examples now over the years, but you keep believing what you want to believe.

can you please explain how anybody here is 'ignorant', when not even the showrunners themselves know what they are doing?, meaning that by definition nobody can be ignorant of anything because there's no information available to educate oneself any better, unless you're using the word as synonym for being rude, in which case there's none of that either, so it doesn't work in either context, as for being narrow minded, i wasn't aware that using past experience to form a judgement about something that looks exactly like other failed projects using the exact same playbook was being 'close minded', if anything it's called 'using your better judgement', the only time you can even dare to call someone close minded in regard to this clusterfuck of a project is if they state they dislike it and after watching maintain the exact same arguements as prior to watching, and only then does the definition of that term stick, until then you're just mad that people are calling this mess exactly what it is appearing to be and aren't blindly praising this as the next big thing for gender politics and racial diversity set in a universe created with none of those things in mind.

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lol
10char

i'm glad you find that funny, personally i don't, i don't enjoy seeing things i grew up with taken by some upstart that thinks they are hotter than the sun with delusions of grandeur take a shit all over beloved franchises and products just to try and be 'the next big thing', but if you enjoy this sort of thing more power to you kiddo.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

as to your second point, everybody i know who has seen the peter jackson trilogy has read the books in their entirety, so that's hundreds of people straight off the bat, if you expand that based on age you get an even bigger base of people who read the books before seeing the films, so sure, if you limit your search to people born in the last 15 years sure you're more likely to find people who have seen the films first then if interested enough have then gone on to read the books, but come on, now you're just skewing the results to favour your stance, not a great look honestly and the perfect politician style response.

I mean, you're just straight up lying when you say that everyone you know that has watched the movies has also read all the books.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Based on past experience, and with the MANY examples of wokeness causing the downfall of franchises over the last 8-10 years now,

Generally curious, could you name a few? I can’t think of any actual franchise that haven’t already been on a downwards trend (terminator) or Hadn't had a new instalment in years (ghost busters) where people have said wokeness was the downfall it was actually true.

[Adamas102]

It’s pretty telling that you’re unable to provide any examples of such ruined franchises. Again, unless you’re making up your own definition, there are absolutely no negatives to “wokeness”.

And hey, if it was ever I doubt that you didn’t know what you were talking about we have this quote right here:

…gender politics and racial diversity set in a universe created with none of those things in mind.

A universe without racial diversity in mind? Tell me you don’t know jack shit about Tolkien’s writings without telling me you don’t know jack shit about Tolkien’s writings. A world filled with various sorts of humans, elves, dwarves, hobbits, gnomes, and other beings isn’t “racially diverse”? Really? Ooooh yeah, what you meant was “certain skin colors don’t belong in this fantasy world filled with such abundance of racial diversity”. You still wondering who I’m referring to when I say “ignorant and narrow-minded”?

You’ll have to elaborate on what you mean by “gender politics” since it’s pretty much a meaningless term tossed about by guys who feel threatened by women not sticking to their traditional gender roles. That being said, I guess you’ve conveniently forgotten about the character of Eowyn whose narrative centers around opposing gender norms.

You claim you grew up with these stories but apparently you don’t know a thing about them. A universe without gender politics or racial diversity in mind? Fuck off and maybe go read the books again…

[rogoth]

I mean, you're just straight up lying when you say that everyone you know that has watched the movies has also read all the books.

actually, no i'm not, because everybody i went through school with read the books as part of the curriculum, alongside that the films released a few years into my secondary school years, meaning that alongside HAVING to read the books, they also saw the films as they were the biggest blockbuster movies of that time period, and in my year group alone that's 230 students, everybody who i know who is older than me has read the books, as the PJ trilogy didn't exist at that point so no, i wasn't 'lying' and to even try to use that as a comeback makes you look even more desperate than you already were previously.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

actually, no i'm not, because everybody i went through school with read the books as part of the curriculum, alongside that the films released a few years into my secondary school years, meaning that alongside HAVING to read the books, they also saw the films as they were the biggest blockbuster movies of that time period, and in my year group alone that's 230 students, everybody who i know who is older than me has read the books, as the PJ trilogy didn't exist at that point so no, i wasn't 'lying' and to even try to use that as a comeback makes you look even more desperate than you already were previously.

You're not convincing annyone with this story.

"Everyone older than me read the books"

It's a bold faced fucking lie.

[rogoth]

It’s pretty telling that you’re unable to provide any examples of such ruined franchises. Again, unless you’re making up your own definition, there are absolutely no negatives to “wokeness”.

And hey, if it was ever I doubt that you didn’t know what you were talking about we have this quote right here:



A universe without racial diversity in mind? Tell me you don’t know jack shit about Tolkien’s writings without telling me you don’t know jack shit about Tolkien’s writings. A world filled with various sorts of humans, elves, dwarves, hobbits, gnomes, and other beings isn’t “racially diverse”? Really? Ooooh yeah, what you meant was “certain skin colors don’t belong in this fantasy world filled with such abundance of racial diversity”. You still wondering who I’m referring to when I say “ignorant and narrow-minded”?

You’ll have to elaborate on what you mean by “gender politics” since it’s pretty much a meaningless term tossed about by guys who feel threatened by women not sticking to their traditional gender roles. That being said, I guess you’ve conveniently forgotten about the character of Eowyn whose narrative centers around opposing gender norms.

You claim you grew up with these stories but apparently you don’t know a thing about them. A universe without gender politics or racial diversity in mind? Fuck off and maybe go read the books again…

oh, you want to be a pedantic fuck now?, ok then lets dance, since you seem incapable of distinguishing context, i used the terms i did in DIRECT RELATION to this steaming pile of shit they call 'the rings of power', 'gender politics' is having Galadriel become warrior goddess of middle earth because all of her established lore and story means nothing am i right?, i said 'racial diversity' with regards to the absolutely fucking moronic casting involved in the show with absolutely no basis in the overarching themes created by Tolkein for those fictional races he created, it has nothing to do with the utter moronic strawman arguement you're trying to peddle but nice try.

and since it's clear you're mentally indoctrinated into the woke brigade, here's a few examples of 'wokeness' that have ruined a franchise or straight up killed the potential for one to exist to begin with:

captain marvel
men in black: international
charlies angels 2019 reboot
ghostbusters 2016 reboot
star wars 'fuck you' trilogy
terminator dark fate (this has almost single handedly killed the terminator franchise from ever getting another movie release)
harley quinn: birds of prey
batwoman TV series
the 355
west side story 2021

this is just a 'small' list of shows/movies/projects that have failed both commercially and critically due to the stereotypical 'woke' hallmarks of pushing gender politics where it doesn't exit, adding racial diversity when it's not there, among other stereotypes based on the projects as a whole.

so mr pedantic fuck, wanna keep going or is this enough for you?

if you feel so inclined in future to make an ass of yourself, try and at least make it interesting.

[ClassicPeon]

Your hoping that blizzard will remove black people and fighting women from wow then? Or is there some other “woke fiasco” on display in the little material we’ve seen so far?

You can be offended and misquote me as much as you want - it doesnt change the fact that wokeness does not have any mass appeal. It appeals to a very outspoken minority though.

I'm not a racist - i dont care what skincolour my heroes have. I care when what skincolour my heroes have starts being ideological though. I know its tough to admit but you are the radicalized one.

[Nyel]

This TV show will be a dumpster fire. There's nothing Tolkien about what we've seen yet, absolutely nothing. If you've changed the names of places and characters nobody would even recognize that this is going to be a show set in Middle-earth.

[ClassicPeon]

lol... Sorry buddy, I don't think studios are going to stop casting brown people in their productions any time soon. You may have to get over it.

Exactly the same thing here. Misquoting me to try and represent me as a basic racist. Its probably one of the lowest retorts people can have today because they think its some sort of argument in it self.

"i called him a racist - i win by moral superiority".

Its a very childlike way of discussing things - especially when you are so blatantly misquoting me. If you want to have an actua ldiscussion you have to come up to my level and actually argue for your reasoning.

[rogoth]

You're not convincing annyone with this story.

"Everyone older than me read the books"

It's a bold faced fucking lie.

my parents have read the books, my aunt and uncle have read them, my cousins have read them, as stated everybody in my year group has read them, everyone i know in my personal life who i either consider family or friend has read the books in their entirety, how is this so hard for you to wrap your head around?, in what way is that unclear to you, are you conflating what i said with what you have said and merged the 2 things into 1?, i stated quite clearly and on multiple occasions now that everybody i know has read them, yet you still seem incapable of understanding this statement, so help yourself out here and stop because you're just making yourself look stupid.

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Exactly the same thing here. Misquoting me to try and represent me as a basic racist. Its probably one of the lowest retorts people can have today because they think its some sort of argument in it self.

"i called him a racist - i win by moral superiority".

Its a very childlike way of discussing things - especially when you are so blatantly misquoting me. If you want to have an actual discussion you have to come up to my level and actually argue for your reasoning.

unfortunately that person and all others of their ilk only know these types of arguements because they have grown up with instagram/twitter/snapchat etc where any kind of long form communication is either frowned upon, or is outright restricted (twitter) by design, and as such they are incapable of forming cohesive sentences with well reasoned points and rely entirely on the knee-jerk 'ha gottem' tropes when talking online, or so it would seem to me anyway.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

my parents have read the books, my aunt and uncle have read them, my cousins have read them, as stated everybody in my year group has read them, everyone i know in my personal life who i either consider family or friend has read the books in their entirety, how is this so hard for you to wrap your head around?, in what way is that unclear to you, are you conflating what i said with what you have said and merged the 2 things into 1?, i stated quite clearly and on multiple occasions now that everybody i know has read them, yet you still seem incapable of understanding this statement, so help yourself out here and stop because you're just making yourself look stupid.

Repeating a lie doesn't make it more true.

[beanman12345]

Unless you’re making up your own definition of “wokeness”, it hasn’t caused the downfall of ANY franchises. That’s just the excuse of ignorant, narrow-minded people.

Pretty much. I'm not saying the show is gonna be any good, it might suck in many ways, but anyone who cries about "wokeness" or whatever in sci-fi or fantasy materials, I mean, you put it way nicer than I would have. It's just bigots too cowardly to admit their bigotry, and nothing else.

[kenn9530]

snip

My logic is sound of which yours is not, not everything is made into a book so there is plenty opertunities to make new stories in the same universe or adapt and change current stories available, if everything that was made from a book was made faithful we wouldnt have the amount of choice we have to do on stuff to watch, LOTRs could be made completely different where the ring was never destroyed, it would still be lord of the rings.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

And what makes you think that? I have no idea what was "disastrously bad" about any teasers they've released up to this point, but it's been clear for a while now that no one responding to this is interested in giving it a chance. It was basically doomed ever since the outrage merchants found out that they might be looking to hire someone whose job description involved dealing with nudity.

It's an opinion bro. If you enjoyed them great. Get over people thinking they were trash.

My god some people are way to up tight about these things. LOL

[ClassicPeon]

Pretty much. I'm not saying the show is gonna be any good, it might suck in many ways, but anyone who cries about "wokeness" or whatever in sci-fi or fantasy materials, I mean, you put it way nicer than I would have. It's just bigots too cowardly to admit their bigotry, and nothing else.

Once again we have the same problem with the same logic.

"I dont need to make up any arguments because ->I<- THINK i have the moral superiority and per default that makes me win. Nevermind me actually having to argue HOW i have that superiority - simply throwing insults like racist and bigots around to anyone who doesnt share my opinion is enough"

The only way this type of argument work is if other people asume this is correct. As in we no longer discuss with argumentations we discuss with presumed moral superiority as an argument in itself.

This means society as a whole just cant evolve anymore. We found the absolute peak of moral. Besides being an actual sociopath i dont see how that logic holds up in any way.

[Nerovar]

It seems fitting that this show is going to air on the anniversary of Tolkien's death since they've decided to drop a steaming pile of shit on this man's grave.

[Xath]

You're not convincing annyone with this story.

"Everyone older than me read the books"

It's a bold faced fucking lie.

I'm confused are you actually trying to argue that people didn't read lotr? I don't agree with a bunch of that dude's posts but pretty much everyone I know who watched all 3 movies read the books either before or after.