Lord of the Rings TV Series Purchased by Amazon

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Again not the main character Gordon is a great cop one of the few incorruptible ones in gotham but he isn't a main character.

Why are you so insistent on wanting to racebend characters instead of creating new ones or promoting already existing ones I really don't get it. Miles Morales is proof that people will happily play games and see movies with original characters that were created as their own character not just a race bended Peter Parker.

Catwoman/Gordon likely get more screen time then Johnny storm in any of the movies and the story defiantly revolves around CW more then it did Jonny in any of the FF movies so if you want to say they don’t count as main characters Johnny obviously shouldn’t either so what’s the problem?

How is it that one Johnny managed to single handily FF with his race change but Gordon cat woman and who knows how many other characters in other movies doesn’t effect them at all?

[eschatological]

When Miles Morales was first introduced in the comics he was greeted with the same "Why don't they just create new characters instead of replacing the originals?" backlash that hits every minority hero that dares to take the mantle of another hero.

Seriously, how short are people's memories? We're all old enough to remember when Miles Morales was introduced like....10 years ago. It was all "pandering" and "affirmative action" back then, cause those were the catchphrases used by people. "Why do we need a biracial Spider-Man? Peter Parker is Spider-Man!"

Like, the argument goes round and round.

[Adamas102]

Peter Jackson has stated numerous times that his intent was to stick as close as possible to Tolkien. To even compare the minor changes made by Jackson, to what is being done by Amazon is being disingenuous. Yes Peter Jackson did change some things for LOTR but overall he was faithful to the story of the books.

Oh, so the creators just have to SAY it's faithful and then they can make whatever changes they deem necessary.

If you compiled all the changes from the source material, those from the movies would far outweigh those from the show even with what little we know of the Amazon series thus far. Peter Jackson had a fully fleshed out narrative to draw from and he changed A LOT, and that is fine because a novel (especially one such as LotR) requires A LOT of editing to end up as a screenplay.

Stop calling it Tolkien is the point. People have created hundreds of works inspired by Tolkien over the last 40 years. There is no need to call it "what Tolkien would have wrote" because it is not what Tolkien would have wrote. It is not a literal continuation or expansion of his intent for the lore and history of middle earth. Other franchises have been very open about the fact that they are adapting an existing work and that they are deviating from that source in various ways. I am just pointing out the fact that this is not Tolkien and shouldn't be called "what Tolkien would have wanted". People are upset because Amazon is trying to rebrand Tolkiens world as "their world" as if somehow what they are doing is in line with Tolkien wanted when it is not. Thats the point being made. You could make a perfectly fine high fantasy story inspired by Tolkien without trying to argue that this is a literal continuation and adaptation of Tolkien because it is not. Tolkien is a meta narrative for high fantasy overall because his work inspired much of what we call high fantasy today. And some see him as a holy grail within fiction and fantasy because of that and want to try and gain the prestige of Tolkien without doing the work to earn it by being true to Tolkien's intent. And it is that lazy disrespect that I am calling out, not the idea that people cannot or should not be making changes when doing adaptations.

No one is saying this is literally what Tolkien would have written, but it doesn't need to be. It's still an extension of the source material because that's what you give when you sell the rights to your works.

In the same way the Jurassic World movies are still part of the series that began with the novel Jurassic Park (despite Michael Crichton being dead and having had nothing to do with them), this is part of the series that encapsulates the world and the stories of The Hobbit, The Lord of the Rings, and all other related notes, letters, and published works (or at least the ones that Amazon bought the rights to).

Just because YOU think some of these things deviate too much from what YOU expected of these stories doesn't change the fact that they're still firmly based on Tolkien's source material and provide new stories that reside within the world he created.

[Veggie50]

People gatekeeping Tolkien conveniently forget he was seriously tempted to let the beatles make a LOTR adaptation.

The man wasn’t overly concerned about 1:1 adaptation. His very goal was to create an “english mythology” that other creators could set their roots in.

[Deadite]

It's not. People have been posting that her name is Bridie Sisson.

Well who said Sauron has to be a man?

[bledgor]

People gatekeeping Tolkien conveniently forget he was seriously tempted to let the beatles make a LOTR adaptation.

The man wasn’t overly concerned about 1:1 adaptation. His very goal was to create an “english mythology” that other creators could set their roots in.

But he didn't, and he was very much concerned with being faithful, I believe it is letter 210. I love how many "fans" like to toss the bullshit gate keeper line while letting a trillion dollar company completely change characters, time, locations, and story beats so they can make money off a shit tier adaptation (which may or may not be a good show, for WoT it was shit all around).

Also fuck that I think people need to gatekeep harder, stop letting Hollywood get away with fuck awful adaptations just because people want to see something on screen, we as consumers shouldn't be happy we get terrible products, we should demand good products, made with love and care. What we are getting currently is directors who are talking about ruining lore/changing characters simply because some dumb fucks on twitter say some idiotic shit (Rafe and Watiti both said this).

[Kumorii]

Well who said Sauron has to be a man?

This was my first thought. Doesn't even feel out of place with what they've shown so far either.

[Veggie50]

But he didn't, and he was very much concerned with being faithful, I believe it is letter 210. I love how many "fans" like to toss the bullshit gate keeper line while letting a trillion dollar company completely change characters, time, locations, and story beats so they can make money off a shit tier adaptation (which may or may not be a good show, for WoT it was shit all around).

Also fuck that I think people need to gatekeep harder, stop letting Hollywood get away with fuck awful adaptations just because people want to see something on screen, we as consumers shouldn't be happy we get terrible products, we should demand good products, made with love and care. What we are getting currently is directors who are talking about ruining lore/changing characters simply because some dumb fucks on twitter say some idiotic shit (Rafe and Watiti both said this).

Tolkiens letter 210 was a simple consultation any writer would give on a screenplay of his works. Furthermore he doesn’t so much call out the “deviations” as the “this makes no sense” stuff.

But you do you, our brave keeper of gates.

[bledgor]

Tolkiens letter 210 was a simple consultation any writer would give on a screenplay of his works. Furthermore he doesn’t so much call out the “deviations” as the “this makes no sense” stuff.

But you do you, our brave keeper of gates.

I mean you are wrong about letter 210, but you do you, oh you brave mindless consumer.

[Dhrizzle]

I mean you are wrong about letter 210, but you do you, oh you brave mindless consumer.

Letter 210 starts off apologising if the creator of the film treatment finds his criticisms irritating. Reading through it you can seen that Tolkien understood that different media would entail changes to the story in some way, and while he was firmly displeased with some of the changes he was also respectful to the creators. It's similar to how Christopher Tolkien disliked Peter Jackson making "action movies for 15 - 25 year olds" but didn't resent their existence.

Whatever the Tolkiens may have thought of the series, as they were gentlemen it's likely they would have been far more upset about the mindless vitriol being pushed against the creators by opportunistic YouTubers and their fans pretending to care about Tolkien's work.

[Syegfryed]

Also fuck that I think people need to gatekeep harder, stop letting Hollywood get away with fuck awful adaptations just because people want to see something on screen, we as consumers shouldn't be happy we get terrible products, we should demand good products, made with love and care. What we are getting currently is directors who are talking about ruining lore/changing characters simply because some dumb fucks on twitter say some idiotic shit (Rafe and Watiti both said this).

This lol, it was what happened with percy jackson, eragon, the golden compass and now Whell of time, they are ruining a lot of franchises for the lolz and killing potential new ones;

At Least Percy jackson will get a reboot with the author overseeing, but not many books have this second chance

[DarkAmbient]

Well who said Sauron has to be a man?

This was my first thought. Doesn't even feel out of place with what they've shown so far either.

Well, there's just the small matter of Sauron never assuming a female form, always assigning male titles and names to himself like Tar Mairon (tar = king/lord) and Annatar (lord of gifts), and Tolkien never referring to him as female at any point in any of his writings. There's also, you know, the name of the book: The Lord Of The Rings.

But yeah, WhY dOeS hE hAvE tO bE a MaN? For fucks sake.

[Deadite]

But he didn't, and he was very much concerned with being faithful, I believe it is letter 210. I love how many "fans" like to toss the bullshit gate keeper line while letting a trillion dollar company completely change characters, time, locations, and story beats so they can make money off a shit tier adaptation (which may or may not be a good show, for WoT it was shit all around).

Also fuck that I think people need to gatekeep harder, stop letting Hollywood get away with fuck awful adaptations just because people want to see something on screen, we as consumers shouldn't be happy we get terrible products, we should demand good products, made with love and care. What we are getting currently is directors who are talking about ruining lore/changing characters simply because some dumb fucks on twitter say some idiotic shit (Rafe and Watiti both said this).

Like you said this is just an adaptation. Think of it as Tolkien.....what if?. It is going to be Galadriel: Warrior Princess running about kicking ass. The best you can hope for is that it will be a good fantasy show but if you want authenticity then you are going to be sorely disappointed. I will give the same three episodes i give any tv show i watch.

[Kumorii]

Well, there's just the small matter of Sauron never assuming a female form, always assigning male titles and names to himself like Tar Mairon (tar = king/lord) and Annatar (lord of gifts), and Tolkien never referring to him as female at any point in any of his writings. There's also, you know, the name of the book: The Lord Of The Rings.

But yeah, WhY dOeS hE hAvE tO bE a MaN? For fucks sake.

I'm poking fun at the show for the changes they've made so far. So I don't think this change is out of place for the show to make.
it's also how I interpreted Deadites comment. Poking fun at the show.

[bledgor]

Like you said this is just an adaptation. Think of it as Tolkien.....what if?. It is going to be Galadriel: Warrior Princess running about kicking ass. The best you can hope for is that it will be a good fantasy show but if you want authenticity then you are going to be sorely disappointed. I will give the same three episodes i give any tv show i watch.

No, it isn't an adaptation by any definition, at most you can claim it is inspired by Tolkein. I am just tired of so many "fans" telling me to be happy that I am getting crap, because hey at least you got served shit. I would rather not have a show/movie if they are just going to produce crap instead of giving it the love and care it deserves.

Letter 210 starts off apologising if the creator of the film treatment finds his criticisms irritating. Reading through it you can seen that Tolkien understood that different media would entail changes to the story in some way, and while he was firmly displeased with some of the changes he was also respectful to the creators. It's similar to how Christopher Tolkien disliked Peter Jackson making "action movies for 15 - 25 year olds" but didn't resent their existence.

Whatever the Tolkiens may have thought of the series, as they were gentlemen it's likely they would have been far more upset about the mindless vitriol being pushed against the creators by opportunistic YouTubers and their fans pretending to care about Tolkien's work.

So you agree I am right even if I am being a bit of an ass? Fine by me, Tolkien is a better man than me too, I fully acknowledge that.

I firmly disagree he would be more upset by the "opportunistic youtuber creators", Tolkien probably wouldn't pay them any heed. Just because they are gentleman doesn't mean they would be okay with the creators of the show actually twisting and changing his messages, that was on one topic that really got to Tolkien, something those youtubers have gotten right.

Also just because some people are out there pissed and throwing shit doesn't excuse the show runners from every fuck up they do, stop using whataboutisms to defend shit.

Finally I believe that if Tolkien was forced to see how many terrible adaptations Hollywood has shit out over the past decade or so he might be a bit more harsh in his critique, more along the lines of what Jordan said about some of the fanfic he had seen.

[DarkAmbient]

I'm poking fun at the show for the changes they've made so far. So I don't think this change is out of place for the show to make.
it's also how I interpreted Deadites comment. Poking fun at the show.

Poe's Law in full effect then, my apologies. I was triggered for a moment there.

[Shadowferal]

So...Xena?

[eschatological]

Imagine posters advocating and saying we should be gatekeeping more, keeping the thing they love the same, undeviated story they already know, and out of the hands of a wider audience.

It's utter arrogance, that others have to conform to what you believe about a property, and a lack of ability to think creatively and see the property through a new (and potentially exciting) new lens.

[rogoth]

Imagine posters advocating and saying we should be gatekeeping more, keeping the thing they love the same, undeviated story they already know, and out of the hands of a wider audience.

It's utter arrogance, that others have to conform to what you believe about a property, and a lack of ability to think creatively and see the property through a new (and potentially exciting) new lens.

i hope you realise how oxymoronic this statement is when talking about the universe Tolkein built, the books have been translated into every major language in the world today, they have been enjoyed by generations of people, i don't think you could get any wider of an audience than this, and yet here you are advocating to allowing it be made available to a 'wider audience' when the franchise has i would argue THE widest audience of any franchise of the last 75 years, so just who exactly are you hoping to bring in with this likely shitshow?, outside of very young kids born in the last 10 years or so there's not really too many people left to bring into the universe.

[Shadowferal]

It's utter arrogance, that others have to conform to what you believe about a property, and a lack of ability to think creatively and see the property through a new (and potentially exciting) new lens.

If they were that creative, they wouldn't need to ride the coattails of a successful franchise. They'd come up with a name that would brand their own franchise instead.