1. #1901
    The Unstoppable Force Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bledgor View Post
    Also fuck that I think people need to gatekeep harder, stop letting Hollywood get away with fuck awful adaptations just because people want to see something on screen, we as consumers shouldn't be happy we get terrible products, we should demand good products, made with love and care. What we are getting currently is directors who are talking about ruining lore/changing characters simply because some dumb fucks on twitter say some idiotic shit (Rafe and Watiti both said this).

    This lol, it was what happened with percy jackson, eragon, the golden compass and now Whell of time, they are ruining a lot of franchises for the lolz and killing potential new ones;

    At Least Percy jackson will get a reboot with the author overseeing, but not many books have this second chance

  2. #1902
    Quote Originally Posted by Deadite View Post
    Well who said Sauron has to be a man?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    This was my first thought. Doesn't even feel out of place with what they've shown so far either.
    Well, there's just the small matter of Sauron never assuming a female form, always assigning male titles and names to himself like Tar Mairon (tar = king/lord) and Annatar (lord of gifts), and Tolkien never referring to him as female at any point in any of his writings. There's also, you know, the name of the book: The Lord Of The Rings.

    But yeah, WhY dOeS hE hAvE tO bE a MaN? For fucks sake.

  3. #1903
    Quote Originally Posted by bledgor View Post
    But he didn't, and he was very much concerned with being faithful, I believe it is letter 210. I love how many "fans" like to toss the bullshit gate keeper line while letting a trillion dollar company completely change characters, time, locations, and story beats so they can make money off a shit tier adaptation (which may or may not be a good show, for WoT it was shit all around).

    Also fuck that I think people need to gatekeep harder, stop letting Hollywood get away with fuck awful adaptations just because people want to see something on screen, we as consumers shouldn't be happy we get terrible products, we should demand good products, made with love and care. What we are getting currently is directors who are talking about ruining lore/changing characters simply because some dumb fucks on twitter say some idiotic shit (Rafe and Watiti both said this).
    Like you said this is just an adaptation. Think of it as Tolkien.....what if?. It is going to be Galadriel: Warrior Princess running about kicking ass. The best you can hope for is that it will be a good fantasy show but if you want authenticity then you are going to be sorely disappointed. I will give the same three episodes i give any tv show i watch.

  4. #1904
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkAmbient View Post
    Well, there's just the small matter of Sauron never assuming a female form, always assigning male titles and names to himself like Tar Mairon (tar = king/lord) and Annatar (lord of gifts), and Tolkien never referring to him as female at any point in any of his writings. There's also, you know, the name of the book: The Lord Of The Rings.

    But yeah, WhY dOeS hE hAvE tO bE a MaN? For fucks sake.
    I'm poking fun at the show for the changes they've made so far. So I don't think this change is out of place for the show to make.
    it's also how I interpreted Deadites comment. Poking fun at the show.
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  5. #1905
    Quote Originally Posted by Deadite View Post
    Like you said this is just an adaptation. Think of it as Tolkien.....what if?. It is going to be Galadriel: Warrior Princess running about kicking ass. The best you can hope for is that it will be a good fantasy show but if you want authenticity then you are going to be sorely disappointed. I will give the same three episodes i give any tv show i watch.
    No, it isn't an adaptation by any definition, at most you can claim it is inspired by Tolkein. I am just tired of so many "fans" telling me to be happy that I am getting crap, because hey at least you got served shit. I would rather not have a show/movie if they are just going to produce crap instead of giving it the love and care it deserves.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    Letter 210 starts off apologising if the creator of the film treatment finds his criticisms irritating. Reading through it you can seen that Tolkien understood that different media would entail changes to the story in some way, and while he was firmly displeased with some of the changes he was also respectful to the creators. It's similar to how Christopher Tolkien disliked Peter Jackson making "action movies for 15 - 25 year olds" but didn't resent their existence.

    Whatever the Tolkiens may have thought of the series, as they were gentlemen it's likely they would have been far more upset about the mindless vitriol being pushed against the creators by opportunistic YouTubers and their fans pretending to care about Tolkien's work.
    So you agree I am right even if I am being a bit of an ass? Fine by me, Tolkien is a better man than me too, I fully acknowledge that.

    I firmly disagree he would be more upset by the "opportunistic youtuber creators", Tolkien probably wouldn't pay them any heed. Just because they are gentleman doesn't mean they would be okay with the creators of the show actually twisting and changing his messages, that was on one topic that really got to Tolkien, something those youtubers have gotten right.

    Also just because some people are out there pissed and throwing shit doesn't excuse the show runners from every fuck up they do, stop using whataboutisms to defend shit.

    Finally I believe that if Tolkien was forced to see how many terrible adaptations Hollywood has shit out over the past decade or so he might be a bit more harsh in his critique, more along the lines of what Jordan said about some of the fanfic he had seen.
    Last edited by bledgor; 2022-07-24 at 12:09 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xarim View Post
    It's a strange and illogical world where not wanting your 10 year old daughter looking at female-identifying pre-op penises at the YMCA could feasibly be considered transphobic.

  6. #1906
    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    I'm poking fun at the show for the changes they've made so far. So I don't think this change is out of place for the show to make.
    it's also how I interpreted Deadites comment. Poking fun at the show.
    Poe's Law in full effect then, my apologies. I was triggered for a moment there.

  7. #1907

  8. #1908
    Imagine posters advocating and saying we should be gatekeeping more, keeping the thing they love the same, undeviated story they already know, and out of the hands of a wider audience.

    It's utter arrogance, that others have to conform to what you believe about a property, and a lack of ability to think creatively and see the property through a new (and potentially exciting) new lens.

  9. #1909
    Herald of the Titans rogoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    Imagine posters advocating and saying we should be gatekeeping more, keeping the thing they love the same, undeviated story they already know, and out of the hands of a wider audience.

    It's utter arrogance, that others have to conform to what you believe about a property, and a lack of ability to think creatively and see the property through a new (and potentially exciting) new lens.
    i hope you realise how oxymoronic this statement is when talking about the universe Tolkein built, the books have been translated into every major language in the world today, they have been enjoyed by generations of people, i don't think you could get any wider of an audience than this, and yet here you are advocating to allowing it be made available to a 'wider audience' when the franchise has i would argue THE widest audience of any franchise of the last 75 years, so just who exactly are you hoping to bring in with this likely shitshow?, outside of very young kids born in the last 10 years or so there's not really too many people left to bring into the universe.

  10. #1910
    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    It's utter arrogance, that others have to conform to what you believe about a property, and a lack of ability to think creatively and see the property through a new (and potentially exciting) new lens.
    If they were that creative, they wouldn't need to ride the coattails of a successful franchise. They'd come up with a name that would brand their own franchise instead.

  11. #1911
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    If they were that creative, they wouldn't need to ride the coattails of a successful franchise. They'd come up with a name that would brand their own franchise instead.
    You know full well those projects aren't approved or invested in at anywhere near the rate by the business side of Hollywood. To suggest otherwise is obtuse.

  12. #1912
    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    You know full well those projects aren't approved or invested in at anywhere near the rate by the business side of Hollywood. To suggest otherwise is obtuse.
    Fine. But lets not infer "creativity" then. That suggests originality...and for the longest time now we rarely see that.

  13. #1913
    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    You know full well those projects aren't approved or invested in at anywhere near the rate by the business side of Hollywood. To suggest otherwise is obtuse.
    And yet Stranger things has managed to do quite well, because good story telling finds a way. You also don't have to invest a billion dollars in every project, in fact a lot of great films/shows started with low budgets and found a plot the audience craved. Just because they CAN adapt an existing franchise doesn't mean they should or it is right to do so.

    I don't need 5 million people around to enjoy what I enjoy, the amount of people adds no extra value to me. Also btw the most wide spread fantasy story ever, if people haven't heard of it they have to actively avoided it at this point. You know what would actively harm more people reading it though, a shit tier adaptation that gives people the wrong impression of the stories.

    What I don't want is people to claim they falsely love something then turn around and completely change it/conform it (as you so put it) to FIT THERE OWN PERSON vision of the story. You seem fine with directors making that decision but when I stand up for them fucking a story completely it is wrong? At least with me I'm not trying to make money off of it.
    Last edited by bledgor; 2022-07-24 at 04:40 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xarim View Post
    It's a strange and illogical world where not wanting your 10 year old daughter looking at female-identifying pre-op penises at the YMCA could feasibly be considered transphobic.

  14. #1914
    Merely a Setback Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogoth View Post
    i hope you realise how oxymoronic this statement is when talking about the universe Tolkein built, the books have been translated into every major language in the world today, they have been enjoyed by generations of people, i don't think you could get any wider of an audience than this, and yet here you are advocating to allowing it be made available to a 'wider audience' when the franchise has i would argue THE widest audience of any franchise of the last 75 years, so just who exactly are you hoping to bring in with this likely shitshow?, outside of very young kids born in the last 10 years or so there's not really too many people left to bring into the universe.
    You are drastically over selling the reach of fantasy novels if you think LoTR is the widest franchise in the last 75 years, even as far as such series go it’s likely behind some Others as it’s in the same ball park as Harry hotter which sold way faster and likely reached more people with the movies then LoTR did.
    Last edited by Lorgar Aurelian; 2022-07-24 at 04:48 PM.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  15. #1915
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadite View Post
    Well who said Sauron has to be a man?
    Why does Sauron even have to be actually evil? Maybe he's just preparing them for some greater threat than even Morgoth and after the ring is destroyed they find a way to redeem him?

  16. #1916
    Merely a Setback Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VMSmith View Post
    Why does Sauron even have to be actually evil? Maybe he's just preparing them for some greater threat than even Morgoth and after the ring is destroyed they find a way to redeem him?
    In theory if they were going to make more alternate timeline media like shadow of Mordor they could very well make him not evil given that some one posted a whole back that he had a chance to redeem him self after Morgoth fell but choose not to take it.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  17. #1917
    Quote Originally Posted by VMSmith View Post
    Why does Sauron even have to be actually evil? Maybe he's just preparing them for some greater threat than even Morgoth and after the ring is destroyed they find a way to redeem him?
    "This ... cannot ...be! You preserve that which is doomed. An Arda divided will not ... survive ...what is ..to ...cooome......"

  18. #1918
    Quote Originally Posted by VMSmith View Post
    Why does Sauron even have to be actually evil? Maybe he's just preparing them for some greater threat than even Morgoth and after the ring is destroyed they find a way to redeem him?
    Wait till we find out the one ring is actually a cock ring.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xarim View Post
    It's a strange and illogical world where not wanting your 10 year old daughter looking at female-identifying pre-op penises at the YMCA could feasibly be considered transphobic.

  19. #1919
    Herald of the Titans rogoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    You are drastically over selling the reach of fantasy novels if you think LoTR is the widest franchise in the last 75 years, even as far as such series go it’s likely behind some Others as it’s in the same ball park as Harry hotter which sold way faster and likely reached more people with the movies then LoTR did.
    The Lord of the Rings has been on the 'top 10 best selling novels' lists for the last 55 years, if you take the entire harry potter saga and add up the individual book sales then yes, it has sold more total copies adding each books sales together, however the actual novels themselves that comprise the harry potter saga, only the first novel 'the philosophers stone' is in the top 10, with total sales of ~120 million units, whereas LOTR has unit sales of over 150 million, also, something that helped facilitate the explosive growth of harry potter was the fact that warner brothers studios made the film series so quickly post publication of the books, whereas the first visual media for LOTR wasn't made until decades post the novels first publication, not to mention the vastly different eras in which they were made and the societal differences that existed at the time of each being made, and based on almost every 'top 10 list' for novels sales, LOTR ranks between 3rd and 5th depending on whether the list is talking about books in general or specifically excluding things such as the bible or the quran for example, the only other books that surpass LOTR are Don Quixote and 'the little red book', and considering almost all modern fantasy is inspired in part by LOTR, and Tolkein being credited as the father of modern high fantasy, it stands to reason that just looking at book sales alone isn't the best indicator of how popular or how well known the franchise is, hence my statement that LOTR and 'middle earth' is the most widely known and widely loved franchise of the last 75 years and counting, but by all means tell me how it's not.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by bledgor View Post
    Wait till we find out the one ring is actually a cock ring.
    with added vibration technology for the ultimate stimulus.

  20. #1920
    Quote Originally Posted by VMSmith View Post
    Why does Sauron even have to be actually evil? Maybe he's just preparing them for some greater threat than even Morgoth and after the ring is destroyed they find a way to redeem him?
    Ah, I see we have a visitor from an alternate reality where one of the most successful/well-received movies in the past few years wasn't about humanizing and making us sympathize with a character that's traditionally been depicted as the embodiment of chaotic evil. Welcome traveler.

    Must have been nice to be spared a big part of that disrespectful woke agenda we've been hearing so much about.


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