1. #1281
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    This:
    "But the sons of Men die indeed, and leave the world;wherefore they are called the Guests, or the Strangers. Death is their fate, the gift of Iluvatar, which as Time wears even the Powers shall envy. But Melkor has cast his shadow upon it, and confounded it with darkness, and brought forth evil out of good, and fear out of hope."

    It's thought that Andreth's myths are the result of Morgoth or Sauron influencing Men in their earliest days to resent their mortality. This is exploited by Sauron when he convinces the Numenorians they had been deceived by the Valar, and Illuvatar was their creation devised to keep Men in their place. Following this came the attempted invasion of the Undying Lands, the Fall of Numenor and the Changing of the World.

  2. #1282
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerovar View Post
    Extremely bewildering choice to give the elves 16th century plate armor.
    I hope you don't think the stuff in the Jackson movies are the first/only concepts of what elves would wear.

  3. #1283
    Quote Originally Posted by s_bushido View Post
    I hope you don't think the stuff in the Jackson movies are the first/only concepts of what elves would wear.
    What an awfully defensive response.
    The absolute state of Warcraft lore in 2021:
    Kyrians: We need to keep chucking people into the Maw because it's our job.
    Also Kyrians: Why is the Maw growing stronger despite all our efforts?

  4. #1284
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerovar View Post
    What an awfully defensive response.
    ...what? My only takeaway from this is that you do think that. Bewildering, indeed.

  5. #1285
    Quote Originally Posted by s_bushido View Post
    ...what? My only takeaway from this is that you do think that. Bewildering, indeed.
    Are you capable of reading and engaging with something without bringing your own dull assumptions into the discussion? Keep fighting windmills, I guess.
    The absolute state of Warcraft lore in 2021:
    Kyrians: We need to keep chucking people into the Maw because it's our job.
    Also Kyrians: Why is the Maw growing stronger despite all our efforts?

  6. #1286
    Considering that the Elves for much of the history were the greatest smiths I should think we will see far better.

  7. #1287
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    Considering that the Elves for much of the history were the greatest smiths I should think we will see far better.
    Elven smiths predominantly made chain mail and besides the dwarves were greater smiths than even the Noldor.

    It would be interesting if only the elves of Eregion wore plate to symbolise their friendship with the dwarves of Moria but it's probably a stylistic choice like the Men of Gondor wearing plate in LotR movies.

  8. #1288
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerovar View Post
    Extremely bewildering choice to give the elves 16th century plate armor.
    It's already been established that the showrunners don't really care about the integrity of the world Tolkien created so things like this are to be expected.

  9. #1289
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    It'd be the height of irony if this turns out to be poorly written fan-fiction.
    How would that be ironic?

    Going by the vast majority of adapted stories in the past 5+ years, how many of them have been anything but poorly written fan-fiction? They almost all end up this way with only a small group of online trolls shilling for them, who generally don't even watch the shows in question.



    Honestly, its more ironic if after ALL OF THE NEGATIVE PRESS for this show, it turned out to be utterly faithful to Tolkien and was liked by lots of people.

  10. #1290
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkAmbient View Post
    It's already been established that the showrunners don't really care about the integrity of the world Tolkien created so things like this are to be expected.
    Is that your opinion on Peter Jackson's LotR trilogy too? Genuinely curious as a lot of people who seem to care about the purity of Tolkien's vision are more than happy to handwave changes Jackson made while railing against Amazon.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Gumble View Post
    How would that be ironic?

    Going by the vast majority of adapted stories in the past 5+ years, how many of them have been anything but poorly written fan-fiction? They almost all end up this way with only a small group of online trolls shilling for them, who generally don't even watch the shows in question.



    Honestly, its more ironic if after ALL OF THE NEGATIVE PRESS for this show, it turned out to be utterly faithful to Tolkien and was liked by lots of people.
    The Boys, Good Omens and The Expanse were all pretty good. American Gods started strong at least.

  11. #1291
    Quote Originally Posted by Gumble View Post
    Going by the vast majority of adapted stories in the past 5+ years, how many of them have been anything but poorly written fan-fiction?
    Quite a few, actually.

    But most of those were passion projects by people who wanted to adapt them. The problem here is a shitty company secured rights to a property because they're just desperate to create a new Game of Thrones. That's how you end up with drek like what this is almost assuredly going to be. It only adds to the garbage when they then go on to hire people for their names rather than their interest in the actual property; see anything Michael Bay or J.J. Abrams put their disgusting hands on, such as The Transformers and Star Wars/Trek.

    It extends past adaptations, too. For example, it's why a show like The Mandalorian rocks while the entire sequel Star Wars trilogy was utter tripe.
    Last edited by Infinity Cubed; 2022-06-11 at 10:59 PM.

  12. #1292
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    Is that your opinion on Peter Jackson's LotR trilogy too? Genuinely curious as a lot of people who seem to care about the purity of Tolkien's vision are more than happy to handwave changes Jackson made while railing against Amazon.
    Peter Jackson and Amazon did/are doing different things. One had to condense an encyclopaedic body of existing work into movie format. The other is creating something new-ish based on Tolkien's work and doesn't have to make the same kind of choices as Jackson did. He had no choice but to make significant omissions and other alterations so that the movies would work. Amazon don't really need to do that. I didn't like or agree with some of the things he did but the LotR films were still great (didn't really like the Hobbit ones all that much tbh, only saw them once), and, crucially, it was clear that he had a genuine love and respect for Tolkien's work.

  13. #1293
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkAmbient View Post
    Peter Jackson and Amazon did/are doing different things. One had to condense an encyclopaedic body of existing work into movie format. The other is creating something new-ish based on Tolkien's work and doesn't have to make the same kind of choices as Jackson did. He had no choice but to make significant omissions and other alterations so that the movies would work. Amazon don't really need to do that. I didn't like or agree with some of the things he did but the LotR films were still great (didn't really like the Hobbit ones all that much tbh, only saw them once), and, crucially, it was clear that he had a genuine love and respect for Tolkien's work.
    That's what I expected - Peter Jackson gives plate armour to Gondor = genuine love and respect for Tolkien's work.
    Amazon gives plate armour to elves = don't really care about the integrity of the world.

  14. #1294
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    Is that your opinion on Peter Jackson's LotR trilogy too? Genuinely curious as a lot of people who seem to care about the purity of Tolkien's vision are more than happy to handwave changes Jackson made while railing against Amazon.
    I mean, plenty of people also criticized/criticize Jackson's vision. ESPECIALLY where it diverged from the original materials (the whole Faramir storyline etc.). I guess it's less visible because it was two decades ago, and also because the internet has come a long way since. There'd be no shortage of people screaming bloody murder if it was happening in the present day. I'm sure there'd be entire subreddits dedicated to the fact that Frodo looks too young alone

    That being said, the aesthetic of the LotR movies looked if not more accurate then at least more organic. It fit its world better, whether or not that world was an accurate representation of JRR's works. Granted - it could just be the artificiality of touched-up promotional shots that's the culprit here. We haven't seen the actual show yet. Stills can only convey so much, and often distort.

  15. #1295
    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    I mean, plenty of people also criticized/criticize Jackson's vision. ESPECIALLY where it diverged from the original materials (the whole Faramir storyline etc.). I guess it's less visible because it was two decades ago, and also because the internet has come a long way since. There'd be no shortage of people screaming bloody murder if it was happening in the present day. I'm sure there'd be entire subreddits dedicated to the fact that Frodo looks too young alone

    That being said, the aesthetic of the LotR movies looked if not more accurate then at least more organic. It fit its world better, whether or not that world was an accurate representation of JRR's works. Granted - it could just be the artificiality of touched-up promotional shots that's the culprit here. We haven't seen the actual show yet. Stills can only convey so much, and often distort.
    I understand there are Tolkien purists out there who are deeply critical of Jackson's films (Christopher Tolkien was downright scathing,) and also that it's possible to enjoy them and think they did a good job converting the general story to the big screen.What annoy me is the double standards, and pretending that RoP is more disrespectful with its choices.

  16. #1296
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    That's what I expected - Peter Jackson gives plate armour to Gondor = genuine love and respect for Tolkien's work.
    Amazon gives plate armour to elves = don't really care about the integrity of the world.
    You're being a little bit disingenuous there. I said it had "already been established that the showrunners don't really care about the integrity of the world Tolkien created", not that the armour was the sole reason for saying that.

  17. #1297
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkAmbient View Post
    You're being a little bit disingenuous there. I said it had "already been established that the showrunners don't really care about the integrity of the world Tolkien created", not that the armour was the sole reason for saying that.
    Except that hasn't been established at all, there's been nothing that shows the creators of the Amazon series don't have the same love and respect for Tolkien's work.

  18. #1298
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    I understand there are Tolkien purists out there who are deeply critical of Jackson's films (Christopher Tolkien was downright scathing,) and also that it's possible to enjoy them and think they did a good job converting the general story to the big screen.What annoy me is the double standards, and pretending that RoP is more disrespectful with its choices.
    It's hard to gauge properly because we haven't actually, you know, seen the show. The promotional materials we HAVE seen are almost unequivocally worse than the LotR films, but that could have any number of reasons (them being highly touched-up promotional shots being chief among them). I don't think it's super hypocritical to say that from what he have actually seen, it looks worse and less accurate than the film trilogy; whether or not that'll hold for the actual series as well we cannot say yet.

  19. #1299
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    Not every story needs to be told the way it was in the books, you just shit on something because they didnt follow the book version to the letter, nothing wrong with an adaptation of the series telling the story a different way, doesnt change the fact that many tv series are still good regardless of what the hardcore fanbase seem to think.
    Nah, respect the source to the T if you're telling something with a source. Otherwise, I'm happy to let franchises use all the lore and world building to tell completely new and novel series in the same universe. But anything else? Fuck no.

    The worst person to judge anything is the hardcore fan as they are completely biased.
    Nope.

  20. #1300
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkAmbient View Post
    It's already been established that the showrunners don't really care about the integrity of the world Tolkien created so things like this are to be expected.
    If that's already "been established," I wonder if you could even cite any passages from Tolkien's work that describe what sort of armor they're supposed to be wearing.

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