Lord of the Rings TV Series Purchased by Amazon

[InfiniteCharger]

I think they actually missed an opportunity to show of an elf with "ethnic" long hair. Which would of been much cooler looking.

But at the end of the day, if the worst thing about this series is a haircut then we are all extremely lucky.

I see the elves as being mythic archetypes living in the world of Tolkien and interacting with mortals which is what makes them "other". That is a distinction that is very important to Tolkien's lore and this "otherness" in being immortal and taller than normal humans is part of what gives them their "ethereal" or "otherworldly" nature. It also means that they are not technically supposed to be seen as a literal "human" type race but as a fantasy race with mythical attributes. This same kind of trope is found in the Elves of WOW but they have many different types of skin colors, like pinks and bluish which just shows they are a fantasy race and not intended to be taken as simply real world humanoids. The lore of the 3 ages is that the first 2 ages are the times of myths, legends and larger than life heroes, villains and battles while the 3rd age is the transition from that mythic age to the age of normal mortal men, as in real world men. And the 4th age is that story of the mortals going forward, where the elves and so forth are like the literal gods and demigods of our historical mythology if they actually were real at some point in the ancient past. Other franchises have elves as just another mortal race with simply more affinity to different schools of magic,who may be ancient but still just mortals. And this is why there is so much more diversity in the depictions of elves outside of Tolkien in general because they have a wide variety of settings and backgrounds given the wide variety of fantasy settings created in high fantasy since then. But yes, that look of Tolkien elves is supposed to reflect his intentions for them as a race and not simply as some generic template from a MMO character creation screen with infinite options for appearance. That really isn't Tolkien at all. Heck even with that "Dark" elves have most often been depicted as darkish grey or even brown but still with that distinct elven look with the long straight hair and ears distinguishing them as a fantasy race.

[Orby]

1 month to go before we all have to choose two extreme sides of how we feel about this show. Because these days there are only two sides. Because its 2022 and every bit of geek media is a declaration of war. lol

also can anyone tell me if this show is coming out episode a week or all at once? Usually amazon release their shows a episode or two a week.

[Deadite]

1 month to go before we all have to choose two extreme sides of how we feel about this show. Because these days there are only two sides. Because its 2022 and every bit of geek media is a declaration of war. lol

A month? People have already picked a side and they won't be switching back on this forum.

[Jastall]

A month? People have already picked a side and they won't be switching back on this forum.

It does seem like that for a lot of people.

For those who already decided it sucks, if people generally like it it'll be because they're the brainwashed slaves of Bezos who have no taste at all, and if it's not generally liked it'll be their vindication that go woke go broke.

For those who already decided it's good, if people like it then it's proof everything about it is good with no exception, if they don't like it it's proof that we're all a bunch of racists.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

1 month to go before we all have to choose two extreme sides of how we feel about this show. Because these days there are only two sides. Because its 2022 and every bit of geek media is a declaration of war. lol

also can anyone tell me if this show is coming out episode a week or all at once? Usually amazon release their shows a episode or two a week.

Just because there are two sides to an argument it does not follow that both sides must be extreme.

The extreme argument is "This show sucks ass and tolkien is spinning in his grave"

The other argument is "I'll wait for the show to come out before I decide if and/or how much they are raping Tolkien's corpse." That's not an extreme position. It's a very reasonable position.

[InfiniteCharger]

1 month to go before we all have to choose two extreme sides of how we feel about this show. Because these days there are only two sides. Because its 2022 and every bit of geek media is a declaration of war. lol

also can anyone tell me if this show is coming out episode a week or all at once? Usually amazon release their shows a episode or two a week.

There is only one side and that is Amazon's. They are making this and want you to buy it. If you do or not that is up to you.
And at this point Tolkien's wishes don't count in terms of what the end product is going to be.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

1 month to go before we all have to choose two extreme sides of how we feel about this show. Because these days there are only two sides. Because its 2022 and every bit of geek media is a declaration of war. lol

also can anyone tell me if this show is coming out episode a week or all at once? Usually amazon release their shows a episode or two a week.

You mean 1 month until it’s once again clear that there was only one true LOTR and they should have never given into there hubris and tried to adapt any thing beyond it.

[Celement]

There is only one side and that is Amazon's. They are making this and want you to buy it. If you do or not that is up to you.
And at this point Tolkien's wishes don't count in terms of what the end product is going to be.

It would be interesting to see the shows metrics. I think the bulk of people who have amazon prime have it for shipping rather then the shows.

I expect it to go as well as a wheel time but like I've said I'm willing to be surprised.

[Orby]

Just because there are two sides to an argument it does not follow that both sides must be extreme.

The extreme argument is "This show sucks ass and tolkien is spinning in his grave"

The other argument is "I'll wait for the show to come out before I decide if and/or how much they are raping Tolkien's corpse." That's not an extreme position. It's a very reasonable position.

There are two extreme sides, not that there cannot be modest two sides. I am mainly talking about THE extreme sides. Not that all sides are extreme.

Side 1: Those that think its all part of some crazy woke political agenda to Tolkien's art form. They are prepared to hate it whether its good or bad, so much so that any good parts of the show are ignored for the extreme side of 'it all sucks' ignoring the good.

Side 2: those that have heard side 1 and feel the show must be defended because it embraces everything side 1 hates, and any attempt show any criticism over certain aspects has you labelled and highlighted as an enemy of X. So there for you are an X'ist. These people will praise the show ignoring the negatives because of the greater good.

This was the same with Ghostbusters (2016), the same with Captain Marvel the same with Last Jedi. which for myself outside of Ghostbusters (2016) which I still haven't seen I thought Captain Marvel and Last Jedi were fine movies. I fell in the middle, I thought they were fun but flawed movies. But social media being social media, you gotta have those two extreme sides where you got to love or hate it completely to be not called the appropriate buzzword.

Of course you are going to have some sensible sides, like those like me who will most likely enjoy some parts of the show but will probably find a few things to dislike. Or those that may wholly dislike or hate the show but end it there and move on not dwell and attacks others for not having validation of that opinion but may be willing to discuss and argue sensibly with lose friends or 'normal' people about their issues. I was on social media back when Ghostbusters, Captain Marvel Last Jedi were rampant, people are fucking nuts on there. A lot of people have extreme sides. Not everyone of course but on social media its like world war 3 lol

You mean 1 month until it’s once again clear that there was only one true LOTR and they should have never given into there hubris and tried to adapt any thing beyond it.

For me personally I wish the franchise was never touched after the mediocrity of the Hobbit. This show has tainted my Youtube recommendations. Where as before the shows announcement I would enjoy looking up Tolkein creators like Nerd of the rings and Broken Sword to get a dose of Tolkien lore and find other Tolkien channels and interesting fun Tolkien fan sites in the creative space. NOW though my YouTube pages are filled with giant man children crying about woke this and woke that and RoP is destroying my childhood.... Its too much, where even blocking channels isn't working they just come back again.

I will give this website some praise, it does invite some valid criticisms and discussion, sure you have some crazy folk here and there, but at least I can sort of share my thoughts here and find like minded people to agree and disagree sensibly without the loud voices blocking out constructive discussion like alot of social media does.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

There are two extreme sides, not that there cannot be modest two sides. I am mainly talking about THE extreme sides. Not that all sides are extreme.

Side 1: Those that think its all part of some crazy woke political agenda to Tolkien's art form. They are prepared to hate it whether its good or bad, so much so that any good parts of the show are ignored for the extreme side of 'it all sucks' ignoring the good.

Side 2: those that have heard side 1 and feel the show must be defended because it embraces everything side 1 hates, and any attempt show any criticism over certain aspects has you labelled and highlighted as an enemy of X. So there for you are an X'ist. These people will praise the show ignoring the negatives because of the greater good.

Again, "Side 2" isn't praising the show..."side 2" is saying "hey, maybe it will be good, though". That is not an extreme position.

Calling out "side 1" for being bigots is not the same thing as defending the show.

[Orby]

Again, "Side 2" isn't praising the show..."side 2" is saying "hey, maybe it will be good, though". That is not an extreme position.

Calling out "side 1" for being bigots is not the same thing as defending the show.

Well there's defending the show and blindly defending it. the same reason side one is attacking the show. The show isnt even out yet. So you cannot defend or attack it and make your mind up when it isnt even out. That's the point.

sure you can hold your hands up and from the mere look of the show be like 'this isn't for me' and that's fine. Or say 'this looks interesting i'll check it out'

Unless you think that the side 2 example I gave was a reasonable side to be then you are the problem. :P

[Mazza]

This was the same with Ghostbusters (2016), the same with Captain Marvel the same with Last Jedi. which for myself outside of Ghostbusters (2016) which I still haven't seen I thought Captain Marvel and Last Jedi were fine movies. I fell in the middle, I thought they were fun but flawed movies. But social media being social media, you gotta have those two extreme sides where you got to love or hate it completely to be not called the appropriate buzzword.

Ghostbusters (2016) failure was blamed on sexism and that might have been a part of it but... the movie just wasn't very good or entertaining, imo. Captain Marvel I agree on, that movie was absolutely fine but The Last Jedi... what they did with that movie might have been ok as a STANDALONE or hell, even an alternative universe project. As part of the epic 9 part story that the star wars main movies are, TLJ (and tbh, also the Rise of Skywalker) is so damn bad it should not even be considered canon.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Well there's defending the show and blindly defending it. the same reason side one is attacking the show. The show isnt even out yet. So you cannot defend or attack it and make your mind up when it isnt even out. That's the point.

sure you can hold your hands up and from the mere look of the show be like 'this isn't for me' and that's fine. Or say 'this looks interesting i'll check it out'

Unless you think that the side 2 example I gave was a reasonable side to be then you are the problem. :P

I don't think the side 2 example you gave is a reasonable example. I don't think the side 2 example you gave even exists.

Side 2 are the people that are waiting for the show to be out before making up their minds. Side 1 are the people that have already decided it's shit. Some of those people on Side 1 are calling it shit for bigoted reasons. calling those people out is not the same thing as "defending" the show.

[vizzle]

It does seem like that for a lot of people.

For those who already decided it sucks, if people generally like it it'll be because they're the brainwashed slaves of Bezos who have no taste at all, and if it's not generally liked it'll be their vindication that go woke go broke.

For those who already decided it's good, if people like it then it's proof everything about it is good with no exception, if they don't like it it's proof that we're all a bunch of racists.

Sounds like the only winners are people who don't even bother watching it at all. Happy to be in that camp.

[Orby]

I don't think the side 2 example you gave is a reasonable example. I don't think the side 2 example you gave even exists.

Side 2 are the people that are waiting for the show to be out before making up their minds. Side 1 are the people that have already decided it's shit. Some of those people on Side 1 are calling it shit for bigoted reasons. calling those people out is not the same thing as "defending" the show.

Maybe it doesn't for this show. I am not on social media anymore and haven't been since 2019. My fragile mental health couldn't handle it anymore. and already have to deal with my crippling anxiety :P

But this side 2 did exist for Ghostbusters (2016) and the Last Jedi. Ghostbusters especially, people were shit on for not wanting to watch the movie (myself included, cos I just wasnt interested in a reboot), and quoted that if you didn't go see the movie you are sexist. So maybe that audience doesn't exist for RoP so I may be wrong, I don't know what the general consensus on what the overall RoP opinion is. But seeing as I am getting flooded with whinging man children about the show crying about the usual stuff they cry about, I just assume there's the other side. If I am wrong then I take that back.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Maybe it doesn't for this show. I am not on social media anymore and haven't been since 2019. My fragile mental health couldn't handle it anymore. and already have to deal with my crippling anxiety :P

But this side 2 did exist for Ghostbusters (2016) and the Last Jedi. Ghostbusters especially, people were shit on for not wanting to watch the movie (myself included, cos I just wasnt interested in a reboot), and quoted that if you didn't go see the movie you are sexist. So maybe that audience doesn't exist for RoP so I may be wrong, I don't know what the general consensus on what the overall RoP opinion is. But seeing as I am getting flooded with whinging man children about the show crying about the usual stuff they cry about, I just assume there's the other side. If I am wrong then I take that back.

The only people that got shit on for not wanting to see Ghostbusters were people that were making the same "shitty woke casting" comments on it that they are making here. Plenty of people were able to say "I have no interest in seeing that movie" without getting shit on...including myself. I still haven't seen the movie, I probably never will... but it wasn't because I was offended they had four women instead of 4 men. I just didn't think it looked likee it would be a very good movie. I don't think it would have been a better movie if the original ghostbusters returned.

But that's not relevant here anyway.

This thread is about Rings of Power and seriously, no one is "defending" the show itself...because none of us have actually seen it. People are getting called out on their gatekeeping and bigotry...but, again, that's not the same thing as defending the show. The show could suck a donkey's asshole through a garden hose and I would still call out people that are shitting on the show because of it being "woke".

[Orby]

The only people that got shit on for not wanting to see Ghostbusters were people that were making the same "shitty woke casting" comments on it that they are making here. Plenty of people were able to say "I have no interest in seeing that movie" without getting shit on...including myself. I still haven't seen the movie, I probably never will... but it wasn't because I was offended they had four women instead of 4 men. I just didn't think it looked likee it would be a very good movie. I don't think it would have been a better movie if the original ghostbusters returned.

But that's not relevant here anyway.

This thread is about Rings of Power and seriously, no one is "defending" the show itself...because none of us have actually seen it. People are getting called out on their gatekeeping and bigotry...but, again, that's not the same thing as defending the show. The show could suck a donkey's asshole through a garden hose and I would still call out people that are shitting on the show because of it being "woke".

I literally got called sexist because my only excuse was that it was a reboot and I wasnt going to watch it. and to this day have no opinion on it because I haven't seen it.

Now with Rings of Power I sadly am going to watch it. But only so I can at least make a detailed discussion about my loves and hates about it and the fact that some of it does actually look interesting. And that its not a reboot, although I am getting tired of prequels now. Looking at you House of Dragons :P

[InfiniteCharger]

The only two sides in this are:

1) The original author and their characters, stories, plots and themes

2) Whether some studio who buys the rights to said authors work are faithful to that work or making something of their own which has elements of the original authors work.

Fans who like the story, characters, plot and settings of the original author rightfully expect the studio to stay reasonably faithful to that work especially if they want to maintain that fan base. Others, who may not be familiar with the original work may just see the whatever is produced by the studio as its own thing and judge it solely by that. But to say that this represents "two sides" of a fandom as if everybody thinks alike or has the same opinions is very misleading. Some original fans of a story or character will be offended by changes made by the studio in doing an adaptation of the story, just like some people with their own imagined versions of tolkiens character were just outraged at the idea of a movie based on his books. Others who are fans of the original will be more willing to go along with the changes and give the new show a chance and others while not as outraged as the first group may still have a threshold of specific changes to the source material where they no longer accept it as faithful. And you can have many variations of all the above. And this goes for adaptations of novels, manga, comic books, anime and so forth. The only thing that is "special" about Tolkien is that he himself was very specific about his intent on keeping his vision and story intact and not modified or altered by any studio doing an adaptation. And that gives some of those fans who are very defensive against altering the source material another reason to be offended that studios take liberties with it and go against the original authors intent.

Studios like Amazon have made it their mission to put Diversity and Inclusion (DEI) at the forefront of producing any new shows on their streaming platform. And therefore it doesn't matter what the content is, they will change it to suit those mandates from the studio. Not to mention you got stuff like this from the tolkien society itself:

[InfiniteCharger]

I don't know about gatekeeping but I was just as outraged about studios doing an Akira adaptation and moving it to New York City.
That isn't racist or sexist on my part and I am not Japanese so the idea that I "needed" them to change the casting to be more American doesn't make sense. And technically that would be DEI in reverse wouldn't it. But last I checked 70s Hong Kong Karate movies were popular in America among non Asians, so where is this idea that people "need to see themselves" in something coming from? American movies and entertainment is popular around the world, but if that argument was valid, then nobody would like those things unless they were American. All this nonsense about gatekeeping just comes off as "fans" of some existing IP should automatically like whatever adaptation is done no matter what, which obviously doesn't make sense. "Fans" have always been a very vocal and sometimes disagreeable group, but that does not imply "gatekeeping", it is just that some people as "fans" have differing interpretations and visions of these fantasy worlds even as a "fandom".

No different than that horrific adaptation of Death Note on Netflix being rejected by fans. People acting like just because it is Tolkien it should be treated differently than any other work of fiction being adapted is silly. Source material should be respected either way. But that's me everyone has the right to their own opinion of course and their own tastes. Look how horrible the adaptation of Halo turned out, which again is about staying true to the source material and so forth.

A new Amzaon prime video discussing more about the upcoming adaptation and how it is now "inspired" by Tolkien but not literally an adaptation of Tolkien:



There's a new fellowship and now Galadriel is on a 1000 year quest...... Which is absolutely not what Tolkien intended or wrote about her character. Some will like it and some won't but this is what Amazon has decided to do with this story in order to make it like "Lord of the Rings" which doesn't make sense.

[VMSmith]

I literally got called sexist because my only excuse was that it was a reboot and I wasnt going to watch it. and to this day have no opinion on it because I haven't seen it.

I've been called a Trump supporter here because I'm critical of Democrats on various issues, MMOC's woke mob is quite quick to label everyone a witch when they don't conform 100% to their desires, even when a disagreement is as innocuous as "I'm not going to watch it".

There's also their gaslighting, where they tell you you're being an old silly-billy and all they really want is for people to wait for the show to come out to judge it three posts before another one chimes in with how you're "screeching about diversity and inclusion" and claiming your position is "I will find anything to complain about". See, you're not allowed to decide for yourself what bothers you about a show that's coming out, according to them, but they'll pretend it's you that's actually "gatekeeping".

I appreciate both your and InfiniteCharger's posts, both of you have been reasonable and measured.