1. #2501
    Quote Originally Posted by Adamas102 View Post
    I appreciate you admitting you have a simple little mind, but again the "good reason" is that Tolkien left the world he created vague enough for that diversity to exist (while also being specific about it not being all white).

    When interviewed for the Daily Telegraph Magazine in 1968 he was specifically asked if Middle-earth corresponded to Nordic Europe. Nordic Europe being the Northwestern and Northern parts of Europe, encompassing peoples such as Anglo-Saxon, Germanic, Scandinavian, Northern French, and Celts, and Nordicism being the idea that these peoples, and by extension the white race, was superior and sacred. Tolkien wholeheartedly denied these ideas and his response was as follows:



    Not only did Tolkien reject the idea that the North-west of Middle-earth (where all these stories take place) was equivalent to white Northern Europe, he also didn't specify the skin color of dwarves (at all), the only reference he made to hobbit skin tone was that Harfoots (the most common type of hobbit) were "browner of skin" than Stoors and Fallohides, and Numenorians were culturally most similar to ancient Egyptians (a people that encompassed a variety of skin tones).

    The idea that all these races and peoples were white is purely assumption based on Tolkien's descriptions of specific people ONLY. There were a lot of people and subgroups of people that Tolkien never gave detailed descriptions of, and he made it crystal clear that Middle-earth (from Hobbiton to the Mouth of Anduin) was not spiritually, geographically, or culturally the equivalent of white Northern Europe.

    But yeah, you keep fighting the good fight for the pure white, northern European Middle-earth that Tolkien expressly said was not a thing.
    Not that I admit anything . Rather correcting thing so you do not pass for someone dishonest intellectualy. Which you obviously are .

  2. #2502
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    Says the guy whose simple little mind can't wrap itself around dark skinned people appearing in a fantasy world without any good reason (because the people they are inserted into are white) nor explaination. Fixed.
    I mean in existing fantasy with different cultures and beliefs it's rather jarring. This isn't a new IP but an already established story. It is weird to see mixed cultures in settings like this.

    The warning sign isn't that they are doing this mind you. Rather it is because they are making a big deal about doing this and that has been the red flag something is gonna be shit for the past decade.

    Woman and minorities being highlighted usually signals the production is going to be shit. There are some hard sought out exceptions to this but they are just that exceptions.

    If amazon had faith in this they would be promoting the story behind it. Instead it looks like they are repeating the missteps from a wheel of time. I will give it s chance I work from a remote location and at times rely on amazon prime for groceries of all things. They have my money already but I doubt its gonna be good.

  3. #2503
    Quote Originally Posted by Celement View Post
    I mean in existing fantasy with different cultures and beliefs it's rather jarring. This isn't a new IP but an already established story. It is weird to see mixed cultures in settings like this.

    The warning sign isn't that they are doing this mind you. Rather it is because they are making a big deal about doing this and that has been the red flag something is gonna be shit for the past decade.

    Woman and minorities being highlighted usually signals the production is going to be shit. There are some hard sought out exceptions to this but they are just that exceptions.

    If amazon had faith in this they would be promoting the story behind it. Instead it looks like they are repeating the missteps from a wheel of time. I will give it s chance I work from a remote location and at times rely on amazon prime for groceries of all things. They have my money already but I doubt its gonna be good.
    I am totally on board with that as well.

  4. #2504
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    I am totally on board with that as well.
    Not surprised that you are on board with the idea that women and minorities don't belong in media, and if they are everything "they" touch is going to be shit.

  5. #2505
    Quote Originally Posted by Nask View Post
    Not surprised that you are on board with the idea that women and minorities don't belong in media, and if they are everything "they" touch is going to be shit.
    Not surprising you do not understand what is being said.

  6. #2506
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    Not surprising you do not understand what is being said.
    I guess you are now going to say that highlighting means something other than what the meaning is? Like, highlighting main actor in adverts is not that? Or actors going to journalist for Q&A is not that?
    Last edited by Nask; 2022-08-11 at 12:46 PM.

  7. #2507
    i must admit that i find the touch of woke ideology rather disgusting in modern day cinema or tv shows. and since most of them usually crash and burn i must say i dont believe this one will have a better fate. so no, i am not interested in a ''modern day'' interpretation of tolkiens work but i wont fault anyone who doesnt think like me. kudos to you and have a pleasant watch
    There is a void in my heart. Have you come to fill it?

  8. #2508
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    Telling nothing but in your sick head.

    They do not travel as much as we do in the modern world. In the middle age, people rarely moved around their town.

    And I perfectly accept a black elf if you give me a good reason why there is a black elf (or more) in a population of white elf. Same goes for the black princess of a white people. Good luck with that.
    The elf fell under an enchantment that changed the colour of his skin. This is a painful memory and therefore not brought up tadaaaaaaaa

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Melius View Post
    i must admit that i find the touch of woke ideology rather disgusting in modern day cinema or tv shows. and since most of them usually crash and burn i must say i dont believe this one will have a better fate. so no, i am not interested in a ''modern day'' interpretation of tolkiens work but i wont fault anyone who doesnt think like me. kudos to you and have a pleasant watch
    Thanks ^^ we'll let you know if it turns out shite

  9. #2509
    Quote Originally Posted by Nask View Post
    I guess you are now going to say that highlighting means something other than what the meaning is? Like, highlighting main actor in adverts is not that? Or actors going to journalist for Q&A is not that?
    Again ,you are wrong . When they spend , producers ,realisators and actors ,so much time speaking about inclusivity rather than the movie or serie itself , usually it means it will probably being shitty .

  10. #2510
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    Again ,you are wrong . When they spend , producers ,realisators and actors ,so much time speaking about inclusivity rather than the movie or serie itself , usually it means it will probably being shitty .
    So you just agreed to something, but you don't understand or care what the word "highlight" means? Can you tell me what the word means to you, and actions you deem fit for "highlight" then?
    Last edited by Nask; 2022-08-11 at 01:06 PM.

  11. #2511
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    So he is playing a black elf while being latino ? So that's acceptable ? Talk about double standards
    I haven’t followed any of the advertising stuff but did they actually say any where that the elf was played by an African or caribbean actor or did you and others just see some one darker then a white guy and jump to him being African black?
    Last edited by Lorgar Aurelian; 2022-08-11 at 01:10 PM.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  12. #2512
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    Again ,you are wrong . When they spend , producers ,realisators and actors ,so much time speaking about inclusivity rather than the movie or serie itself , usually it means it will probably being shitty .
    - Creators talk about Tolkien

    - Black elf appears for 0.5 seconds

    - Internet racists flood every social media channel with racist remarks around black elf appearance

    - Creators respond to the turmoil

    - Internet racists: "Look, all they wanna talk about is inclusivity"

  13. #2513
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    I mean, like I said, the 'activism' has no real bearing on the quality or overall perception of whether a show is good or bad.
    .
    What Iw as saying is that the activism is the reason why the writing is so poor - some of the ideologies some of these people hold to, just make for weirdsituations, lines, actions that generally spoil the movie - e.g. ithose who subscribe to the rule that a man can't tell a woman what to do, nor can he defend her - not every movie is like that off course, but WoT is a classic example.

    Furthermore, when studios don't care about the writing anywhere near as much it allows activists to write scripts and no vetting or vetoing, especially if the studio bosses are that way inclined - the money people never are. What it means is that scripts that focus on the message and the ideology rather than writing a good story or sensible characters a just don't show up. And while these type of people are in control they never will.

    If they are leading the major studios like Warner media (before it was sold), Amazon and Disney - then this is a large amount of our entertainment content and some of most popular brands that will have this type of thing show up reducing its quality.

    The ideology actually affects quite a lot and is why many are blaming it for the poor quality of scripts.

    the sad thing is that diversity is not the prolbem, it's the extreme the activists ghave adapted and the warped views that they are now inserting in their creative works that is oftne just awful. But then if you're writing a story to preach your message rather than writing a sotry about life, it's going to be different.

  14. #2514
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    I haven’t followed any of the advertising stuff but did they actually say any where that the elf was played by an African or caribbean actor or did you and others just see some one darker then a white guy and jump to him being African black?
    In every interview they take great pains to point out the diversity of the cast to the point they rarely if ever even touch on the actual plot. The few times they talk about anything else its them trying to explain away their rewrites and lore errors.

  15. #2515
    Quote Originally Posted by Celement View Post
    In every interview they take great pains to point out the diversity of the cast to the point they rarely if ever even touch on the actual plot. The few times they talk about anything else its them trying to explain away their rewrites and lore errors.
    They also repeat the same phrases and sentences from interview to interview.

  16. #2516
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celement View Post
    In every interview they take great pains to point out the diversity of the cast to the point they rarely if ever even touch on the actual plot. The few times they talk about anything else its them trying to explain away their rewrites and lore errors.
    Not really relevant. I didn't ask if they touched on the plot or lore, I asked if that one actor as actually been said to be African or Caribbean any where because they said a latino playing a black elf is a double standard.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  17. #2517
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    Not really relevant. I didn't ask if they touched on the plot or lore, I asked if that one actor as actually been said to be African or Caribbean any where because they said a latino playing a black elf is a double standard.
    I doubt anyone is following the tokenism to the point of knowing that.

  18. #2518
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celement View Post
    I doubt anyone is following the tokenism to the point of knowing that.
    The comment above mine is about how there repeating the same phrases and sentences in multiple interviews, So if people are keeping track of something like that id expect some people to know if they ever actually refer to the elf's race in any of them.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  19. #2519
    Quote Originally Posted by Celement View Post
    I doubt anyone is following the tokenism to the point of knowing that.
    Being primary/secondary characters that parts of the plot actually revolve around means they’re decidedly NOT token characters.

  20. #2520
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adamas102 View Post
    Being primary/secondary characters that parts of the plot actually revolve around means they’re decidedly NOT token characters.
    Minority actors are always token to some folk no matter how important they are to the actual movie/show. The only way they can see them being cast is to deflect criticism or to virtue signal never because of there actual talent.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

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