Lord of the Rings TV Series Purchased by Amazon

[Biomega]

the great thing about tv shows you don't like is that you aren't compelled to watch them.

I think the problem people have isn't so much "woe is me, someone is forcing me to watch this!" but more the prospect that something they at least in principle would have WANTED to watch now turns out to be something they very much don't want to watch.

The particulars of that process are up for debate of course (and often subjective), but it's not about having to watch a show you don't like; it's missing out on a show you might have liked.

I'd LOVE to see a new great fantasy show. But LotR or WoT ain't that. Just ain't. I won't continue to watch either of them, but that leaves me without a great fantasy show to watch. And that makes me sad.

[Heathy]

I'm willing to bet the better parts of the actual story are to happen. these first few episodes have consisted of mostly exposition at least thats what I got from it so far. barely anything has actually happened yet. the rings haven't been made yet, there are a lot of kingdoms that haven't fallen. mordor is still green. to me it just feels like it has barely started. at some point in this show I would expect some level of pandemonium as various places are obviously going to collapse. not totally sure how well it'll be portrayed but, you'd think multiple kingdoms falling would be at least some spectacle.

[Xath]

lol

Living in your own alternate reality even more fantastical than Middle Earth.

You can think it's bad all you want. I just can't for the life of me see any reason to pretend it hasn't been review/vote bombed.

I can't see any reason to pretend it has been. Any attempted review bombing has been more than offset by both removing negative ratings and a large number of very questionable reviews namely a suspicious number of 10/10s.

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Who gives a fuck what a corporation prioritizes?

Because when certain things are prioritized early in marketing they are usually used as a shield against criticism. When that is already in the mind of of a company before the show/movie has even released it's usually a bad sign.

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Well, agree to disagree. If you hate it so much, i would recommend you stop watching it. No reason to get yourself worked up over a tv show.

I get annoyed because of the massive oppurtunity cost. Because of this drek we aren't getting something that could be interesting and wouldn't require stomping all over tolkien's legacy. There are huge swaths of middle earth's history that are unexplored but instead they choose a segment with a relatively known timeline and then compressed it and stomped all over it.

[loppy88]

So, I've only lightly skimmed this thread to catch up since the last banning, because who the heck has time for this utter nonsense, but it still seems to be the same people arguing about the exact same stuff. What baffles me the most is how people that claim to be such big Tolkien fans complain like they've never actually read a book before. Who in their right mind expects every answer within the first 2/3 parts of a story? People like this do not read books like LotR.

How can people not understand the (actually quite simple) basis for how Galadriel behaves? Shouldn't someone so versed in Tolkien know the why she does? Hell, she's actually acted quite well when you have the capacity to understand her behaviour. Though there was one guy that seemed to understand that behaviour, but was still somehow unable to see the effect in the acting lol Why do people expect her to already be what we know she needs a long, looong fucking time to become? Without trying to really put people down, I genuinely think some people just don't have the ability to actually understand basic things like a character's motivation.

People bitch and moan about how poorly written this all is, and how poorly acted it all is, but they still seem to simply not get basic things. How long was wasted talking about the first 15 or so minutes (because that's all one guy has actually seen, but still...) when it was all incredibly blatant in what it was portraying and what the character's motivations were? Or taking Galadriel starting to swim and just assuming she knew she could swim however many miles it would have been, no thought given to the simple answer of "she's swimming because its better for her to move and hope to be rescued or reach any small bit of land than just stay there floating and doing fuck all, waiting to get eaten." Seriously, have some of you never read anything, or even watched anything, before? Instead, we get people that clearly should have moved on from this series they hate so much waffling on about "agenda," "tokenism," "intersectional feminism," and critical race theory of all things, as if these things are actual arguments. As for "woke," which even the folks that like to be overly verbose in attempts to appear intelligent and reasoned use incorrectly (I'm sure this line will be used to try attack me since this post is long and calls people out ), literally everyone should be woke. Do you guys even know what it actually means?

Does RoP have issues? Absolutely. But they, mostly, don't actually seem to be what a lot of the complaining has been about. The dialogue, to me, is pretentious enough to be Tolkienesque. The acting is actually good (yes, even Galadriel), not including some accents, perhaps. The overall writing has also been ok, so far. It could be edited together a little better. And while I had no issue with it, I don't think we need shots like the Galadriel on horseback one. Though I do understand what it was there to show. Again, something quite obvious that so many seem to have not understood.

Episode 3 gave us a beautiful Númenor and some of its population that we'd expect to see. I'm glad Elendil was given to a good British actor. Halbrand is absolutely Sauron and you should expect to see that reveal at the end of the season, imo. Episode 3 made it far too obvious lol I look forward to seeing what they do with the new bad guy they introduced at the end of the episode.

It just seems to me that you have no standards.

[Biomega]

I'm willing to bet the better parts of the actual story are to happen.

But it's not so much about that. 3 episodes demonstrate a lot about how a show is put together, and some of the things we've seen so far are so egregiously problematic that they're very unlikely to miraculously disappear as the story progresses. Story is just one problem among many in this show, and to expect the direction and production to just do a massive turn after 3 episodes seems more like wishful thinking than a realistic prospect at this point.

If a showrunner can't make a compelling case to viewers to keep watching after the first 3 episodes, something has gone very wrong. At least for those viewers who stop watching. There may well be enough others who will continue, but at least some of the audience has been alienated.

[Heathy]

I can't say i've been put off by anything, i'm still interested to see how exactly this age played out, how did sauron corrupt so many leaders, what happened to these kingdoms that were destroyed before the second war. I've barely seen anything, we saw the elven king was a bit of a dick, numenor, mordor or the southlands becoming mordor, there really hasn't been that much beyond setting the scene of the world. we saw the stage the 'hobbits' are in. I can't say that what i've seen so far bothered me at all. i'm curious to see how it plays out. i'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, I have nothing to lose, I have prime anyway. whether I like the show or not, ill be able to come to a conclusion when it ends. its meant to be 5 seasons long, it might not even get interesting until the latter half. by interesting I mean, move more toward the conflict. heat up etc.

[s_bushido]

I can't say that what i've seen so far bothered me at all. i'm curious to see how it plays out.

My biggest concern is that they're setting up too many story threads that they won't have time to resolve.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

LoTR and Wheel of Time are huge investments supposedly both on par with or higher than Game of Thrones they have also had sweeping changes that were only allowed because the authors were dead. They are also the only amazon properties on your list.

If you want other Amazon properties that did the same with the author still Alive there is both the boys and invincible, so they are atleast two for two when it comes to alive/dead creators.

[Triceron]

Because when certain things are prioritized early in marketing they are usually used as a shield against criticism. When that is already in the mind of of a company before the show/movie has even released it's usually a bad sign.

Is it worth getting fussed over reviews that no one really cares about except the corporations?

I mean, anyone who doesn't like the show already knows to avoid reviews, anyone who is interested will watch it regardless of reviews, and otherwise no one really cares. They don't really amount to anything. Bad sign, good sign, unless you're an investor I don't really see why you care. No one is profiting off it cept the corporations who are doing the marketting for it. And to be honest, the show ain't that bad. Galadriel arc is the only real black sheep of the series, otherwise it's still enjoyable for many other reasons.

Shield vs criticism doesn't even matter considering how few people rely on IMDB or Prime Video's self reviews as a primary source for review metadata. Rotten Tomatoes and Metacritic are far more favoured, and the audience scores for the show are truer to form. I don't think they're pulling the wool over anyone's eyes.

Not everyone gives a fuck about how they marketted their diversity. And for the people who do, I think they need to get their priorities straight because the show isn't touting a strong political message at all. It's actually the least offender of all the problems the show actually has.

[Dhrizzle]

If you want other Amazon properties that did the same with the author still Alive there is both the boys and invincible, so they are atleast two for two when it comes to alive/dead creators.

Good Omens was also well received.

[Syegfryed]

It just seems to me that you have no standards.

Some people just like to be contrarians, because thy like to feel superiors, This guy is riding a high horse in a slower motion than Galadriel, lmao

People know the show is shit, they know the writing is awful, the acting is bad and the plot is nonsensical, so they don't have any way to defend it, then they deflect and start to talk about the people criticizing to cope out.

They can talk about how beautiful the scenario is, and its true, its amazing, the Cgi is beautiful(except tht fucking worg, it looked like Eddie from lion king), Numenor is well done, but its painting shit with gold, still is shit

[Orby]

so new episode tomorrow, I am hoping its better than last weeks, which I thought was very dull. I enjoyed the first two episodes for the most part. And there was some good stuff in episode 3 but it needs to turn it up now.

[rhorle]

So, like I said, this is more about money more than anything specifically that Tolkien wanted/did not want.

Yet Tolkien still sold the rights to his works so the things he didn't want would take place. Strange, right? You are using that as a brick wall when in reality it is an open gate. Tolkien enabled these things when he was alive and Amazon is not the first to have created their own version of Tolkien's work. Every work has been a derivative of Tolkien. They all change stuff or create their own lore. They aren't bad because of that.

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Good Omens was also well received.

It is even getting a second season based on "new" work. One author is dead and one is still alive so it will be based on unreleased work finished by the remaining author.

[Logwyn]

And yet a criticism of House of the Dragons is that the young actors are being replaced because there are time skips and just a lot happening "off screen" because of those skips. Could Amazon have done it better? Maybe but there are real downsides to having a lot of time skips.

The average person can generally get skips with a character from a kid to middle age about early 20s. If you start going to 100s or 1000s of years they can not grasp that concept. Jumping from 20 AD to 2000 AD in a story you lose people. Too much math figuring and too many WHAT HAPPENS in 1980 years time that they could not tell us. More of our perception of a time things than anything else.

[InfiniteCharger]

Yet Tolkien still sold the rights to his works so the things he didn't want would take place. Strange, right? You are using that as a brick wall when in reality it is an open gate. Tolkien enabled these things when he was alive and Amazon is not the first to have created their own version of Tolkien's work. Every work has been a derivative of Tolkien. They all change stuff or create their own lore. They aren't bad because of that.

Granted. Doesn't change that he is dead and the Tolkien Estate were the ones that went out to actively shop a television series to studios based on the appendices. So in reality, it wasn't Amazon that was pushing for this vs the Tolkien estate, which means they just wanted money and don't really care about the quality of the resulting work. The actual issue with the films is that most studios see these as very risky to make as the PJ movies pretty much covered the main books and now they are left with making up smaller stories set either in or around what was written without contradicting it. And as you can see, the only thing they have come up with so far is an animated film.

So in pushing this series on studios, they are only basically green lighting a potentially horrible story that is obviously not canon, which even casual viewers will likely notice, just to keep the 'brand' in the public eye and generate some cash. I don't blame Amazon for trying to make a new series seeing that the rights were available, but I do blame them for not seeing that they got left holding the bag by the Tolkien estate for nothing but a very expensive albatross. They are required to make 5 seasons as part of the deal for these rights and no matter if this show is successful or not Amazon has to continue pumping money into it. And because they don't actually have the rights to tell an actual faithful 2nd age story, they are now stuck with making up a lot of stuff from scratch and taking on all the risk if these stories aren't popular with the audience. The fact that they were dumb and didn't just take one part of the 2nd age, such as the fall of eregion and the creation of the rings of power and just do 5 seasons of that, is perfectly on them. That would been very much a competitor to game of thrones as the deception, intrigue and conflict is very much in line with what you see in game of thrones. But they went the stupid route and are trying to take 3000+ years of history and compress it into a few years. That is on them.

[rogoth]

Hmm can’t say I know enough about the Irish to know what to look for in the case of the hobbits.

The Scottish accent bit seems a bit odd though, dwarfs are obviously scot bashed but complaining just about the accent when they otherwise didn’t really play into actual Scottish stereotypes is weird to me.

since both yourself and rhorle are unable to identify why this is such a big deal, i'll try to explain for you.

several months ago ago lindsey weber, the chief showrunner for this project came out with a now infamous statement "we wanted this show to reflect what the real world looks like", or to that effect, this translates to them (the showrunners/writers/producers) seeing the irish as dirty, ragtag peoples with poor personal hygiene standards, not just that, but having an Englishman impersonating an irish person is a cardinal sin in that part of the world due to the sheer amount of discrimination the English historically put the irish people through, and because the showrunners couldn't give a suitable answer to the questions posed, it's being investigated as cultural appropriation and makes them look like absolute scum, which i can't say i would bother to contradict.

i would use an analogy to explain this using american stereotypes but frankly i'm not in a state to bother right now, if you want to understand why this is an issue, do your own research on the matter to understand why this is such a clusterfuck, and why this is yet another example of just how pathetic an amateur these writers are.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Good Omens was also well received.

Ya but he was talking about race swapping and how they mostly target series with dead authors,haven’t watched omens personally so don’t know if that’s something that happens.

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since both yourself and rhorle are unable to identify why this is such a big deal, i'll try to explain for you.

I get why it would be a big deal the hobbits bloody suck so saying any group is like them would also reflect very poorly on that group.

What I don’t know is if it’s a founded claim to say the hobbits are like the Irish or if people are just being dramatic like when morons say Tolkiens orcs are suppose to be black people or something else dumb.

[Miffinat0r]

Not gonna lie the show is beautiful. Being in LOTR world is scratching my fantasy itch because HoTD is not scratching it. That show feels more political (meaning power struggles not ideology) than what to me a fantasy show should be like going on an adventure.

I will say I'm pleased with the show so far. The only thing I wish is that the Tolkien estate would get over itself and just sell the full rights at this point because the more lore I read and watch videos on--The First Age is where it's at. That's what I want. I want a full on Morgoth show.

[rhorle]

And as you can see, the only thing they have come up with so far is an animated film.

The animated films pre-date the jackson works. I'm not even sure if you understand what point you are making other to ramble and rant about anything Tolkien. They didn't push a series in order to do a bad job. That is nonsense and you should be able to realize how nonsense that is. It is also strange how you are now blaming the Tolkien estate and that it is impossible to tell a good story with the "left overs" of tolkiens work. It also contradicts the later part of your post where you give an example of how Amazon could have been a competitor game of thrones. Which is it Amazon had no choice but to do the bad show forced on them or they could have had the choice to focus on something else?

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this translates to them (the showrunners/writers/producers) seeing the irish as dirty, ragtag peoples with poor personal hygiene standards

It does not though. If you are looking for racism then you will find it. It isn't a cultural appropriation. You are just showing how manufactured the outrage is. It is strange how some people criticize the show for having to clean of costumes while it is also a bad thing when costumes are "dirty" as well.

[DarkAmbient]

The next episode needs to get its shit together. The writing in the last one was bad.