Lord of the Rings TV Series Purchased by Amazon

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Has anything started happening in the show? I got though the first 2 episodes and decided to stop until I can just bender it. Nothing was happening. Figured it was doing the normal streaming show format of introduce a show based off its name and do nothing until the next of the season.

[Triceron]

That whole montage, and alternating scenes between half the southern people submiting to the orcs, and Halbrand talking about what he had done to survive made it seem like he 'was' present at it, giving the impression that was the 'past'.

But i might just have gotten the wrong impression

The cut that made it seem like it was supposed to be a flashback. I was confused at first until I saw the Tavern dude and realized they were focusing on the Southlanders who had left the watchtower.

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Honestly at this point I will finish the season just to get some schadenfreude from the train wreck this show has become. I bet we don't any important events this season, no fall of numenor, no Balrog in Khazad-dum (which we shouldn't, as this happens thousands of years into the 3rd age), not even the rings being made.

I think the Balrog will just appear as a season ending cliffhanger, exactly as it appears in the trailer.

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According to your argument it wouldn't be Shakespeare because it changed so much, right? Or is it that "What makes something" a nebulous every shifting concept that is used just to gate keep and hate?

But you admitted yourself that these are adaptations of Shakespeares work. West Side Story in particular isn't Shakespeare at all. At most you can say it's based on Shakespeare's works, but it wouldn't be Shakespeare.

[InfiniteCharger]

Which isn't relevant to this discussion since Rings of Power does respect the defining hallmarks of Tolkien. It just doesn't do a 1:1 copy which isn't required for derivatives. Remember we got Romeo and Juliet with guns which was acclaimed for it being influential at the time to relate it to modern times. The movie wasn't great over all but it still had an impact and still honored Shakespeare. What about West Side story? Changed stuff but won multiple awards.

According to your argument it wouldn't be Shakespeare because it changed so much, right? Or is it that "What makes something" a nebulous every shifting concept that is used just to gate keep and hate?

And just how does it respect Tolkien? Just using the name Tolkien and having characters and events that were written by Tolkien doesn't mean you are respecting Tolkien. That is absurdly hilarious.

One aspect of "respecting Tolkien" is attention to detail and in his writing this is very evident, just in how he described scenery and how they changed as characters moved from place to place, giving you a sense of space and passage of time.

How is that sense of space and passage of time even being reflected in this series? People just show up where ever they are supposed to be and thats it.

[rhorle]

But you admitted yourself that these are adaptations of Shakespeares work. West Side Story in particular isn't Shakespeare at all. At most you can say it's based on Shakespeare's works, but it wouldn't be Shakespeare.

Right. They are all adaptations. That is what we are talking about. Calling adaptations "not true originals" in order to gate keep what is an original. It is an argument that exists just to dismiss anything for a nebulous reason. It is something that is applied based on if a person likes a derivative or not.

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One aspect of "respecting Tolkien" is attention to detail and in his writing this is very evident, just in how he described scenery and how they changed as characters moved from place to place, giving you a sense of space and passage of time.

There is an attention to detail displayed on the show. They use references to things Tolkien wrote to embellish upon. Again just because it isn't a 1:1 copy doesn't mean they are not respecting his work. This just shows how much "respect" is used as a nebulous concept to dismiss anything.

[hulkgor]

The cut that made it seem like it was supposed to be a flashback. I was confused at first until I saw the Tavern dude and realized they were focusing on the Southlanders who had left the watchtower..

Yes, precisely. My reasoning is that Halbrand was one of those villagers, even as far as being the young dude that the innkeeper (Waldreg) was told to kill, and i think he turns it around and ends up killing the innkeeper himself, leading to the "You can't imagine the things i've had to do to survive" and "i'm never going back there" (or something along those lines).

So, we're gonna get Witchered with the timeline reveals at the final episodes.

[Triceron]

Right. They are all adaptations. That is what we are talking about. Calling adaptations "not true originals" in order to gate keep what is an original. It is an argument that exists just to dismiss anything for a nebulous reason. It is something that is applied based on if a person likes a derivative or not.

Er, but that is the exact point.

It's not gatekeeping, it's literally pointing out that the adaptation is not the original material.

Doesn't really matter if someone likes it or not. Peter Jackson's film trilogy is liked by all, but isn't canonical to the books in any way.

[rhorle]

It's not gatekeeping, it's literally pointing out that the adaptation is not the original material. Doesn't really matter if someone likes it or not. Peter Jackson's film trilogy is liked by all, but isn't canonical to the books in any way.

Of course it isn't by the original author. It is gatekeeping because it is brought up just to give a blanket excuse for why something is bad. It does matter if a person likes it or not because they usually only give a blanket dismissal when they don't like something. If they do like something then it is "respecting the work" or similar reason.

[qwerty123456]

Why would you even try to force yourself to like something? If you're not enjoying it...don't watch it.

Some people like to finish things? Some also like to hope things will get better?

I fully watched Fena: Pirate Princess even though it started out ok and just started to snowball into a complete trainwreck by the end because I wanted to finish it.

[Triceron]

Of course it isn't by the original author. It is gatekeeping because it is brought up just to give a blanket excuse for why something is bad. It does matter if a person likes it or not because they usually only give a blanket dismissal when they don't like something. If they do like something then it is "respecting the work" or similar reason.

Er... All you're telling me is you don't like certain people's opinion and are making excuses to dismiss them.

[InfiniteCharger]

There is an attention to detail displayed on the show. They use references to things Tolkien wrote to embellish upon. Again just because it isn't a 1:1 copy doesn't mean they are not respecting his work. This just shows how much "respect" is used as a nebulous concept to dismiss anything.

I mentioned specifically attention to detail and you said embellish. Changing the story of Tolkien isn't "attention to detail".

How has this series portrayed passage of time in the movement across regions and areas with the attention to detail of how things changed from place to place?

[rhorle]

I mentioned specifically attention to detail and you said embellish. Changing the story of Tolkien isn't "attention to detail".

Attention to detail is not the same thing as changing the story. Jackson changed the story and had an attention to detail.

[s_bushido]

So, we're gonna get Witchered with the timeline reveals at the final episodes.

I think you're way overcomplicating this. Humans are susceptible to falling to evil. It happened before (with Halbrand's implication and the reason the watchtower was established in the first place) and it's happening again (with the people who left the watchtower to seek out Adar). I don't think there's anything more to it than that.

I'm willing to be proven wrong, but that just seems like an unnecessary contrivance...and it would deflate the stakes we're supposed to feel with Galadriel lobbying for help on her quest in the first place.

[bledgor]

I mean the change to mithril/the silmarils is a massive deviation from Tolkien alone. We have a book about the Silmarils, its called the Silmarillion, Payne and Mckay should try reading it once.

[s_bushido]

I mean the change to mithril/the silmarils is a massive deviation from Tolkien alone.

And?

"It's different, therefore bad" isn't the knockdown argument people seem to think it is.

Neither is "they're not sticking to the story we refused to give them the rights to use in the first place." If Tolkien purists don't like the liberties the showrunners are taking with Tolkien lore, maybe they should direct their ire towards those who are keeping that lore so restricted.

[rhorle]

I mean the change to mithril/the silmarils is a massive deviation from Tolkien alone. We have a book about the Silmarils, its called the Silmarillion, Payne and Mckay should try reading it once.

Did they though? Could it be another lie or misdirection in order to get Elrond to convince the dwarves? Maybe a Lord of Gifts is both corrupting the tree and supplying obscure legends in order to secure the Mithril that is needed for the the rings? It seems clear that something is influencing the elves as we also have them sending Galadriel away in order to stop the spread of corruption.

Though they do show her believing she could fall to the darkness by going one step to far in her quest to defeat it. Though that could also be the lingering effects of Sauron.

[Adamas102]

I mean the change to mithril/the silmarils is a massive deviation from Tolkien alone. We have a book about the Silmarils, its called the Silmarillion, Payne and Mckay should try reading it once.

Massive deviation? Tolkien never did flesh out an origin for mithril, nor does a Silmaril being a part in its creation deviate greatly from how the gems ended up, lost and inaccessible but their light still present in the earth, sea, and sky of Arda. This just sounds more like whining from the forever-looking-for-excuses crowd.

[rogoth]

Massive deviation? Tolkien never did flesh out an origin for mithril, nor does a Silmaril being a part in its creation deviate greatly from how the gems ended up, lost and inaccessible but their light still present in the earth, sea, and sky of Arda. This just sounds more like whining from the forever-looking-for-excuses crowd.

hey they rabid defender of the indefensible, i'm going to ignore all of the egregious and absolutely reprehensible bastardisations of the established lore, and i was looking for someone to maybe try and explain to me how this is allowed to stand:



in what universe does this pass the sniff test?

[bledgor]

hey they rabid defender of the indefensible, i'm going to ignore all of the egregious and absolutely reprehensible bastardisations of the established lore, and i was looking for someone to maybe try and explain to me how this is allowed to stand:



in what universe does this pass the sniff test?

Just ignore the bad faith trolls, pretty sure if Tolkien came back from the grave and said this isn't his story they would just call him racist and say he is wrong.

NGL not surprised about the crowd considering in the first episode they couldn't keep the same number of elves with Galadriel in each scene. Seriously though, where did all the money go? Like the customs are mid tier at best, cosplay tier in several cases, basically all of the actors are no names, they apparently don't want to pay for extras, and after the big landscape shots that are well done they always go to some small room within seconds. How are they spending what ~$60 million an episode here?

[Iheartnathanos]

There have been plenty of movies and shows based on Dickens's work. What was the last one you cared to see? What was the last one you posted about on a forum?

People care about (or at least pretend to for the sake of culture war outrage bait) LotR stuff precisely because so much money has been pumped into the movie franchise, and continues to be pumped into projects like this. You may not like that, but your feelings don't dictate reality. Sorry.

And again, the movies and shows have nothing to do with the cultural impact the works they're based on may or may not have had before they came out.

You are confusing ‘franchise’ with ‘adaptation’

[Marshyyy]

Problem solved