Lord of the Rings TV Series Purchased by Amazon

[Triceron]

Also if that was the case all of these shows would probably be knocked off the charts by reality shows and sports.

That's actually the point I'm making here.

The list is so specific that it's equivalent of Heroes of the Storm being listed in the top 5 played MOBAs of 2022. It'd be there because the entire listing is so specific that there isn't much to regard in terms of competition. It'd be like regarding HOTS as being successful for making the top 5 MOBAs of 2022 list. It's kind of arbitrary.

The categorization and metrics of the 'Top 15 Streaming Originals' is quite arbitrary. Even quite debatable considering its metrics are skewing towards streaming-only platforms, which is partially why it's so Netflix heavy. Also, it's been questioned what amounts to an 'Original' series when Wednesday, Cobra Kai and Rings of Power are all built off pre-existing properties, either as sequels or spinoffs.

[rhorle]

How many minutes of streaming did House of the Dragon get? I've only scanned through Nielsen pages and didn't see its annual results anywhere.

Similar to Rings of power but slightly lower. An article covering the finale said Rings of Power outpaced it 6 of 7 times. Since it also was on the HBO cable channel at the same time its total viewership is going to be way higher then Rings of Power. The streaming charts won't reflect that since it only includes streaming.

[Dhrizzle]

That's actually the point I'm making here.

The list is so specific that it's equivalent of Heroes of the Storm being listed in the top 5 played MOBAs of 2022. It'd be there because the entire listing is so specific that there isn't much to regard in terms of competition. It'd be like regarding HOTS as being successful for making the top 5 MOBAs of 2022 list. It's kind of arbitrary.

The categorization and metrics of the 'Top 15 Streaming Originals' is quite arbitrary. Even quite debatable considering its metrics are skewing towards streaming-only platforms, which is partially why it's so Netflix heavy.

In terms of whether RoP was successful it only makes sense to compare to shows on the same sort of platform. Amazon aren't wondering if RoP would be able to compete against shows that are also being shown on cable networks because they don't own a cable network to make the show for.

[Triceron]

In terms of whether RoP was successful it only makes sense to compare to shows on the same sort of platform. Amazon aren't wondering if RoP would be able to compete against shows that are also being shown on cable networks because they don't own a cable network to make the show for.

Does it even need to be compared to consider itself successful?

I would argue that the fact it performed well for the company using their own metrics is enough to warrant it being a success. I don't think it needs to be compared to other cable networks OR streaming platforms, considering Prime Video was not ever meant to be in direct competition to Netflix of Disney Plus anyways. It was always designed to promote Prime subscriptions, which incentivizes people with active subs to continue purchasing goods online.

I think just counting the 9.x billion total minutes it has is more than enough to consider it meeting and surpassing Amazon's own expectations. I personally think the comparison to any other show is mostly arbitrary. If we're talking about the top 15 Originals specifically, this is such a dubious category that doesn't really account for 'success'. For example, would anyone say House of the Dragon (if considered an Original series) was less successful for not making that list? Not really.

[Syegfryed]

So if you add together live viewers and streamed viewers then HBO would beat Amazon's streamed viewers only, okay, but that would miss the point of the chart which is measuring how successful a property is for a streaming service. In those terms RoP was very successful and they have every right to be pleased.

Because HBO you need to paid, more, and prime was free if you have another service.

If we are just measuring successful of property in streaming RoP is blow away, you need to count ONLY the "originals" so they can make up in the lowest spot on the chart.

Also if that was the case all of these shows would probably be knocked off the charts by reality shows and sports.

actual successful things, yeah

[rhorle]

If we are just measuring successful of property in streaming RoP is blow away, you need to count ONLY the "originals" so they can make up in the lowest spot on the chart.

A lot of the top 15 overall list is re-runs of old shows. You are just moving the goal posts to another place you think you can use to call the show a failure. It doesn't indicate that and the show is not a failure. It really is quite interesting how adverse some of you are to admitting the show was a success.

[loras]

Amazon said they were happy with its performance which is the main thing really, though people are taking that to mean it was really a failure and they're only carrying on with it because huge corporations love throwing away profits.

Ah.
Sounds pretty standard practice for online tribalism nowadays. Especially poor little statistics, being abused like some crackhouse whore.

Still doesn't give me clarity though, from either side honestly.

Eh, back to apathy i guess.

To add context only two shows in the top 15 were non-Neflix. @Fencers who actually works in the industry says that's something Amazon should be very happy about.

Fair enough, in-house producing of proper quality is no mean feat.

- - - Updated - - -

The woke stuff is a non-issue. Its problems are in its production and execution, simple as that. Poor pacing, poor script, poor planning in general.



Amazon has an internal method of defining what a successful show looks like to them. From what little we know of the subject, their internal gauges involve tracking the first show that new Prime Video subscribers watch. This is what they attribute the subs towards; they correlate the new user to 'subbing' to watch that show. This is unique to Amazon, and there's articles out there that try and analyze why they use this method over other known metrics. So if the Amazon exec says it's successful, it's probably going to be in context of the show being one of their top first-watched shows. If they're touting millions/billions of minutes watched, then I could see that being true too, since they already have plenty of Prime subscribers who would be interested in a 'new Lord of the Rings' series and give it a go. It banked on being a highly anticipated sequel to a movie franchise that has high demand.

As for how Prime Video actually operates, they don't really care much about 'winning' against other streaming platforms either. Nielsen ratings are what people are touting here to compare the series to other shows and use as a metric for success (or failure), Amazon generally doesn't care. It's fairly well acknowledged that Prime Video is a loss-leader. Prime Video exists to promote people staying subbed to Prime, which in turn builds more incentive to buy more stuff online. That's where the real money comes from. Come for the free shipping, stay for the free streaming.

Makes sense, though it also builds the idea that Amazon's regard for the show mught not really be related to either its quality or its succes as a piece of art.

And yeah i heard that it had far more issues than a little wokeness.

[Triceron]

Why is "wokeness" an issue?

Gonna disconnect this question from ROP for a sec to answer.

It is the perception of any politically-motivated elements that are being added at the cost of quality or substance for the overall story.

Sometimes it's a BS excuse and non issue, sometimes it is a substantial problem that is widely being recognized. Even though I haven't watched it, I'll throw out Velma as an example where they went so far out of their say to send a message that they seemed to alienate the original audience that the franchise was made for.

As for how this applies to Rings of Power, it's purely subjective. Some people still hang on to this as a problem. I personally never had issue with it, but I would still recognize it being a contentious issue that exists.

[Koriani]

For me as a viewer it was a trainwreck and an abomination. However, it's not the first time that corporate execs use statistics and metrics that frame their products as successful, while the public hates them. Hell, even hateposting in social media or hateviewing is counted as "engagement" and adds to their success.

Let this serve as a warning to all of us.

I wanted to quote it - to say it again!

Guess what guys. The *exact engagement* media companies care about, the "engagement" Fencers is posting about - INTERNET hits. So yeah, every single 'angry tweet' anyone posts online, across social media, is COUNTING TOWARDS that ENGAGEMENT that the companies ACTUALLY care about.

If you really want an IP's "online engagement" effected in a way media companies care about - you really will have to stop hate posting. =D Every post shitting on an IP is still a +1 for online engagement.

You can however, keep watching, apparently.

Oh - But don't FINISH the series - if you want your hate to count to Netflix (at least) cancelling something.

[Triceron]

Makes sense, though it also builds the idea that Amazon's regard for the show mught not really be related to either its quality or its succes as a piece of art.

I find it hard to grasp what Amazon execs actually want out of this. It's not exactly being recognized as a piece of art, either by the critics, the fandom, or the award academies that Amazon seems to want to appeal to. I personally find this series quite soulless, with the Elrond/Durin arc, (and maybe the Harfoots), being the exception.

[Kumorii]

I find it hard to grasp what Amazon execs actually want out of this. It's not exactly being recognized as a piece of art, either by the critics, the fandom, or the award academies that Amazon seems to want to appeal to. I personally find this series quite soulless, with the Elrond/Durin arc, (and maybe the Harfoots), being the exception.

well Bezos wanted a Game of Thrones and his son(?) told him to not fuck it up with this IP.

We need to know what the son thinks about it!

[Triceron]

well Bezos wanted a Game of Thrones and his son(?) told him to not fuck it up with this IP.

We need to know what the son thinks about it!

They're the only ones who would be able to define it as a success, after all!

[Syegfryed]

I wanted to quote it - to say it again!

Guess what guys. The *exact engagement* media companies care about, the "engagement" Fencers is posting about - INTERNET hits. So yeah, every single 'angry tweet' anyone posts online, across social media, is COUNTING TOWARDS that ENGAGEMENT that the companies ACTUALLY care about.

If you really want an IP's "online engagement" effected in a way media companies care about - you really will have to stop hate posting. =D Every post shitting on an IP is still a +1 for online engagement.

You can however, keep watching, apparently.

Oh - But don't FINISH the series - if you want your hate to count to Netflix (at least) cancelling something.

People shitting on the show in the internet, sadly for then, didn't give enough engagement to be impactful, but yes, hate watching does.

A good thing of hatewatching, is that some people do, so they can warn others to not fall in this same trap

And seeing how viewes drop after the premiere, a lot of people didn't finish it.

As for how this applies to Rings of Power, it's purely subjective. Some people still hang on to this as a problem. I personally never had issue with it, but I would still recognize it being a contentious issue that exists.

It isn't rly subjective, its just so bad that even that they didn't manage to get right.

The idea that humans are mad about elves, and think just because one of then appear their kingdom, is enough to make then riot, thinking they would steal their jobs, is bogus and an allegory to the people that immigration would do that as well

You also have the very, very white pale works, using hoods like an infamous racist groups.

I find it hard to grasp what Amazon execs actually want out of this. It's not exactly being recognized as a piece of art, either by the critics, the fandom, or the award academies that Amazon seems to want to appeal to. I personally find this series quite soulless, with the Elrond/Durin arc, (and maybe the Harfoots), being the exception.

they said they needed a big hit, a Game of thrones-like fever, obviously they didn't succeed on it

[Triceron]

It isn't rly subjective, its just so bad that even that they didn't manage to get right.

The idea that humans are mad about elves, and think just because one of then appear their kingdom, is enough to make then riot, thinking they would steal their jobs, is bogus and an allegory to the people that immigration would do that as well

It's bad because it didn't even make sense for the story they wanted to tell. It doesn't immediately equate to being bad because it's a woke thing. The mere association of this as being woke is subjective.

[Dhrizzle]

And seeing how viewes drop after the premiere, a lot of people didn't finish it.

How did viewes drop off after the Premier?

The idea that humans are mad about elves, and think just because one of then appear their kingdom, is enough to make then riot, thinking they would steal their jobs, is bogus and an allegory to the people that immigration would do that as well

You also have the very, very white pale works, using hoods like an infamous racist groups.

Ah man that's pathetic. Numenoreans are resentful of the perceived superiority of immortal magical people and some people wear hoods - "It'S aN aLlEgOrY fOr PoLiTiCs"

[Syegfryed]

How did viewes drop off after the Premier?

Lets see how much Amazon talk about minutes watched on other episodes... oh wait they don't, they just talk about the premiere.

And with niselsen numbers, each week RoP decreased in the week, only got barely up again in the battle episode, you can search some pages back to find it.

Ah man that's pathetic. Numenoreans are resentful of the perceived superiority of immortal magical people and some people wear hoods - "It'S aN aLlEgOrY fOr PoLiTiCs"

Pathetic is what they did, and i didn't say it was an allegory for politics, i said it was an allegory, period, you take that with what you want, but you need to be blind to not see it.

Numenorians are a race of super-humans, they being receitful to elves because their immortality have fuck to do with 'their gonna steal our jerbs"

And the orcs, nothing to say, you just need to watch it

[bledgor]

immortal

This is the key word, not jobs, but immortality was what drove the Numenoreans. Making it jobs is literally because of US politics and fucking stupid.

Even within just the context of the show, the Elf/Galadriel just wanted to leave the island, while the HUMAN (aka Halbrand/Sauron) was the one taking/looking for a job.

[rogoth]

How did viewes drop off after the Premier?



Ah man that's pathetic. Numenoreans are resentful of the perceived superiority of immortal magical people and some people wear hoods - "It'S aN aLlEgOrY fOr PoLiTiCs"

all the ratings data showed that after the premiere millions of people quit watching the show, and in fact the double episode premier saw a 40% reduction in viewership from e1 to e2 alone, and as mentioned both by myself and others, there were plenty of reports showing that more people left the show after that first episode aired than have watched all 8 episodes in total, meaning the show lost more viewers than it kept hold of by the end, dunno about you but i find that to be pretty significant.

'THEY TOOK ER JERBS!' was an actual plot point of the show, actual allegory to the dumbass American xenophobia towards any immigration but particularly Latino/Muslim immigration that's been increasing massively in recent years, yet another example of the moronic showrunners/department head 'this show must represent what the modern world looks like today' bullshit, there's dozens of examples of pathetic and moronic allegory in this show, and you decided to try and ridicule one of the most prominent ones, not exactly a smart choice there friend.

[Dhrizzle]

Lets see how much Amazon talk about minutes watched on other episodes... oh wait they don't, they just talk about the premiere.

And with niselsen numbers, each week RoP decreased in the week, only got barely up again in the battle episode, you can search some pages back to find it.

I did search, best comparison was posted by @rhorle,

Episodes 1 and 2 were 1,235m minutes. Episode 8 was 1,137m minutes. The low point for the show was episode 6 at 966m minutes.

I just don't see how that fits your narrative.

Pathetic is what they did, and i didn't say it was an allegory for politics, i said it was an allegory, period, you take that with what you want, but you need to be blind to not see it.

Numenorians are a race of super-humans, they being receitful to elves because their immortality have fuck to do with 'their gonna steal our jerbs"

Ah sorry you didn't say it was an allegory about politics, you said it was about politics and an allegory. But Numenoreans being resentful of a race made superior through the will of the Creator isn't allegorical of anything even if it is expressed through anxiety over their greater craftsmanship. Closest historic parallel is probably the Luddites but I'm guessing no influencers could make a South Park meme about that.

And the orcs, nothing to say, you just need to watch it

Brilliant argument, well done.

This is the key word, not jobs, but immortality was what drove the Numenoreans. Making it jobs is literally because of US politics and fucking stupid.

It's bugger all to do with US politics.

Even within just the context of the show, the Elf/Galadriel just wanted to leave the island, while the HUMAN (aka Halbrand/Sauron) was the one taking/looking for a job.

Gosh, that would only make sense if there was some sort of pre-existing resentment about the Elves among the Numenoreans...

[Aydinx2]

As a LotR enjoyer I liked watching it. As a Tolkien enjoyer it lacked in certain areas.
I never went into this expecting to get the Sirmarillion in T.V. form so maybe that helped.