Consume magic removed from DK given to DH

[Mosin]

Blood has had the preferred toolkit for M+ most of this expansion. Moving the "preferred child" to another class isn't the problem, but rather that one tank is clearly superior to the others. The other tanks CAN get the job done of course, but Blood makes things MUCH easier in general.

Blood wasn't even viable as a tank for the first half of the expansion when they didn't have IBF and bone shields melted to dots.

[Sulika]

If by gutted you mean the loss of cool, signature abilities I can sympathize, but if by gutted you mean warlocks lost things that affect gameplay....well.....I've never heard of a skilled warlock having a hard time getting into +24 tyrannical HOV.

This sounds like something you just made up. How many warlocks do you know who have done a 24 tyrannical HoV? Considering in the entire world there are 72 warlocks who have done a 23 tyrannical HoV or higher in time (which I would guess is in or around the same as the number who have finished a 24 in time or not).

To put it in perspective, for every 14 guilds who have completed Mythic Antorus there is 1 warlock who has done a +23 or Higher tyrannical HoV in time, you are talking worldwide an average of about 1 warlock in every 8 realms.

[Hoeth]

This sounds like something you just made up. How many warlocks do you know who have done a 24 tyrannical HoV? Considering in the entire world there are 72 warlocks who have done a 23 tyrannical HoV or higher in time (which I would guess is in or around the same as the number who have finished a 24 in time or not).

To put it in perspective, for every 14 guilds who have completed Mythic Antorus there is 1 warlock who has done a +23 or Higher tyrannical HoV in time, you are talking worldwide an average of about 1 warlock in every 8 realms.

My god man, I just picked HoV out of my ass as an example. The point is....which I guess I have to be completely clear about, is that warlocks are by far the most represented DPS past +20, with nearly 50% more locks (I assume mostly affliction) than the next closest, which is hunter, and there are 1/3rd more warlocks than druids (assuming balance) at +25.

[Nnyco]

Blizzards moving from one favorite child to another, end of story.

ye nothin says favorite child like literally unplayable for the first half of the expansion

[Sulika]

My god man, I just picked HoV out of my ass as an example. The point is....which I guess I have to be completely clear about, is that warlocks are by far the most represented DPS past +20, with nearly 50% more locks (I assume mostly affliction) than the next closest, which is hunter, and there are 1/3rd more warlocks than druids (assuming balance) at +25.

So you did just make it up . Also, yes, when discussing balance you do need to be completely clear. You can't expect to have meaningful discussion on class balance if people are just making up the numbers.

And while yes, DK DPS do struggle a bit at high end, if you are just looking at representation in groups you can't ignore the fact that about 60% of groups doing 25s or higher (pushing towards 75% for the ridiculously high keys) have a DK tank which is artificially pushing down the value of DK as DPS. A Blood DK brings the same utility as a DPS DK, primarily grips and combat res. Taking a second DK just doesn't provide most groups with anything useful that they don't already have from the Blood DK. I'm certainly not saying Unholy or Frost would be up there with Affliction if it just happened that DH was the best high end tank for example and I still doubt you would be seeing DPS DKs in the very top runs but it would make a difference and would certainly push up their representation in the 24+ range substantially. I mean, even with how good warlocks are right now pretty much nobody runs double warlock comps. It doesn't matter how good warlocks are, their value drops drastically when you already have one in the group. The same holds for DKs. Or to look at Druids, both Resto and Boomkin are pretty strong for high M+ but almost nobody runs both in the same group. It doesn't matter the spec, if your group already has a Druid you just get a lot less from having a second one.

[Mosin]

Mythic+ revolves around AoE stun, AoE slow, and survival (either ranged or melee with a great omg button).
Uholy can't AoE and Frost can't survive. No one cares about the grip.

[Acidbaron]

Mythic+ revolves around AoE stun, AoE slow, and survival (either ranged or melee with a great omg button).
Uholy can't AoE and Frost can't survive. No one cares about the grip.

Unholy cannot AoE, do explain that one.

[Mosin]

Unholy needs to dot, DnD, festering and scourge to start thier AoE cycle.
By the 4th GCD, no tank is gonna be sitting on your DnD. Either everything is dead or the tank is running and nothing is left on it, and you are the only one stuck on your DnD while everything else is moving. Unholy don't even have any aoe CC to stick enemies to it. Having Death coil as your RP spender makes things worse, you have single target spell stuck on every cycle.

You can argue how blighted runes or DT can help out, but DT is another GCD added to the lineup making your lineup even longer, and it's two CDs blown without having significant dps increase.

[Cosmic Janitor]

You might want to recheck the unholy talents in BFA.

[msdos]

Did someone just say Blood and Frost bring the same utility to a M+?? Last time I checked Frost has like 2 AOE stuns, a 3rd single target stun if you wear Cold Heart. Blood can bring an AOE, lockdown fear (it just never gets taken) and the group Leech (how do you over look 20% leech?)
So technically, yeah, they do bring different utility.

Blood + Frost makes sense, Blood + Unholy does not.

[Mosin]

You might want to recheck the unholy talents in BFA.

Im just saying how grip isnt a utility worth picking for in m+.
We can all say how bfa dk can do this and that but hey whats the point they are still changing things. Eg. Just lost consume magic.
Beta legions uh dk was aoe king too. Doesnt mean much.

[Cosmic Janitor]

This thread is about BFA and saying that unholy has no AoE in bfa is rubbish, even while moving. It certainly does not rely on the crutch of DnD&SS

[Rhaxus]

This thread is about BFA and saying that unholy has no AoE in bfa is rubbish, even while moving. It certainly does not rely on the crutch of DnD&SS

yeah also his argument for death coild in ST situations as a detriment to it's aoe capabilities...

[TriggeredKid]

i fail to remember DK ever being the favorite anything in the history of wow. they had some good times, but also plenty shit ones

Clearly you never played wrath.

[Ange]

i fail to remember DK ever being the favorite anything in the history of wow. they had some good times, but also plenty shit ones

Warlords of Draenor is another example, the DK class was one of the best progress classes (CHECK WARCRAFTLOGS how many DKs raids used for first kills and how high those DKs were in progress gear).
DoT cleave + massgrip + purgatory was just great for progression. Basicly LEGION's warlocks and rogues as one class, yes WoD was great for raiding DKs.

[Rhaxus]

so, wrath as the expansion where they came out and therefore harder to balance/ figure out for them and wod being good for them, means that dks are getting preferential treatment from the design team? you guys must be on drugs, by that logic almost all classes are blizzards favorite class, since they all were good at some time or another.

[Vynestra]

I guess everyone missed this one. Fucking ridiculous, losing the only utility we got this expansion along with our pruned aoe stun. Now all we have to offer is a single grip.

Oh, its not like bdks have far better self healing or umpteen cooldowns.

Stop qqing at vdh, they're not the bad guy here. VDHs have one active mitigation, and two tank cds. Meta was gutted too. BDKs haave an asinine amount of cooldowns in comparison.

And grip is still far superior than a spellsteal.