So, uh... anyone defending Sylvanas anymore? (SPOILERS!!!)

[Warcrafting]

So, for all those who have zero self-respect and spoiled most of Before the Storm for themselves, welcome! You're in good company.

Onto my main point. To reiterate quickly, the climax of the novel comes when Anduin and Sylvanas come together to allow some of those families torn between the living and the Forsaken the chance to see their relatives again, for the first time since the Forsaken broke from the Scourge. All goes well, but some families decide that enough is enough, and they wish to be reunited permanently under Anduin's protection. Sylvanas sees this, and proceeds to MURDER EVERY FORSAKEN PRESENT. Due to one of the conditions prearranged before the meeting, she refrains from killing any of those still living, save for Calia Menethil, who had been hiding amongst the crowd, doing her priestly duty. (She gets resurrected by the Naaru later on)

Sylvanas just massacred her own civilian population in peacetime for deciding they wanted to be with their families again.

Morally grey, my ass. Sylvanas just committed one of the worst crimes against humanity possible. Her reason? To stomp out the seed of hope before it becomes planted. Even Nathanos calls her out on this, because she also murders those who weren't defecting.

This is some North Korea level shit she just pulled. How can anyone support her after that move? Even Garrosh was somewhat supportable before we learned about how he treated the surviving civilians of Theramore. There is no way to justify her actions. And this is all BEFORE the expansion even starts. If Blizz sticks with this characterization, there will be no way to play the Horde off as sympathetic still. It will be Mists of Pandaria all over again.

Sorry, I got ranting. My ultimate goal is to see what you all think. The topic of Sylvanas has been divisive these past years, and I'm interested in seeing where that goes now.

[Sorshen]

There's nothing to defend about shit writing. Started with Jaina, continued with Sylvanas and now Calia. What a shitshow.

[Deleted]

yea but.. sylvans is not evil. Blizzard said so. There are many sides to the story... bad appels on both sides... This story is more nuances... they said so

[Divada]

In life three things are certain: death, taxes and people that will defend everything Sylvanas does.

[Tatzi]

Blizzard doesn't know how to write 'morally grey'. They know typical good guys and typical bad guys and that's it. Really unfortunate.

[The Stormbringer]

Don't forget, she also murders the ones who were coming back and clearly weren't going to leave the Forsaken. :^)

[Stardrift]

There's nothing to defend about shit writing. Started with Jaina, continued with Sylvanas and now Calia. What a shitshow.

It didn't go the way I wanted it to! Muh headcanons! It must be shit!

That's what you retards that post this same type of shit over and over again on the lore forums sound like.

Infracted.

[Sorshen]

It didn't go the way I wanted it to! Muh headcanons! It must be shit!

That's what you retards that post this same type of shit over and over again on the lore forums sound like.

You seem pretty angry. Maybe you wanna to go upvote some posts on blizzard forums to chill out.

[Deleted]

It's golden being golden.

[Arrashi]

Don't forget, she also murders the ones who were coming back and clearly weren't going to leave the Forsaken. :^)

She saved them from human potential. Better dead than under rule of anduin.

- - - Updated - - -

It's golden being golden.

And thats pretty much sums this whole novel.

[Aucald]

My feelings on Sylvanas have always been complicated - I like the character as a character (in that she generates a lot of narrative push), I don't however like her as a person within the story. I can see where Sylvanas is coming from in removing a nascent opposition in the form of the Desolate Council, but her reasons for doing so seem above and beyond just consolidating and protecting her own power bloc, as she quite literally says that she cannot allow the hope for reconciliation to fester or spread among her Forsaken subjects. In this sense, I feel that Sylvanas is quite literally holding her own people back and standing in the way of the true path for the Forsaken to be accepted for what they are on Azeroth. It is only by accident that Genn is afforded a chance to see that the Forsaken are not themselves a monolith, they're not all shambling horrors or echoes of lost humanity, and it definitely seems that if Sylvanas had had her druthers there wouldn't have been even that small concession. Her goal, for reasons of her own (likely touching on what happened with her and Vereesa in "War Crimes"), is to ensure that the Forsaken remain desolate, hopeless and hating the living, just like their queen.

Sylvanas does not come out of "Before the Storm" smelling like a rose, from an external standpoint. Her desires and her inner drives lie exposed to our scrutiny - and I would say that makes her difficult to stand beside with anything approaching "faction pride." The only saving grace is here is that the rank and file of the Horde likely don't know what occurred with the Desolate Council, and anyone who could gainsay Sylvanas' version of events either has no effective voice or wouldn't be heeded in any case.

[Villager720]

At this point, I think it’s clear they’re not moving her down a redemption/growth arc. On the contrary, they seem to be setting up Nathanos for a betrayal arc. In his short story they planted some regret seeds, and his reaction to this was a budding of said seeds.

[The Stormbringer]

I think the best part of the novel I've seen so far is Genn's reaction. He sees that not all Forsaken are complete psycho monsters, and that they are still the same people they were before, albeit warped in some ways. He was surprised to find that Forsaken and Human families could come together and part amicably, even if they didn't agree.

And, of course, the heart-string tugging moment of him admitting he'd give his life if he only he could have the chance to meet with his son one more time, even in such a fashion.

[Stardrift]

You seem pretty angry. Maybe you wanna to go upvote some posts on blizzard forums to chill out.

Was your post not the angry one? You seem to clench your buttcheeks every time you see lore anywhere on this website.

[Tharivor]

I actually think this incident makes Sylvanas much more sympathetic and understandable than before. With Anduin harbouring and supporting a pretender to the throne of Lorderon who actually has a chance of getting some support from the Forsaken, Sylvanas' paranoia with regards to the Alliance seems more justified. If she tries to follow the path of peace then there is a very serious possibility that more undead would follow the Desolate Council and join Calia in the Alliance. That's a big potential threat both to Sylvanas and those Forsaken who follow her as well as the Horde's power in the Eastern Kingdom's as a whole.

What she does sure as hell isn't morally good, but its actually understandable from a realpolitik perspective and I can't really imagine even a less-evil warchief being happy at the possibility of the Forsaken leaving the Horde without consequences.

[Warcrafting]

I actually think this incident makes Sylvanas much more sympathetic and understandable than before. With Anduin harbouring and supporting a pretender to the throne of Lorderon who actually has a chance of getting some support from the Forsaken, Sylvanas' paranoia with regards to the Alliance seems more justified. If she tries to follow the path of peace then there is a very serious possibility that more undead would follow the Desolate Council and join Calia in the Alliance. That's a big potential threat both to Sylvanas and those Forsaken who follow her as well as the Horde's power in the Eastern Kingdom's as a whole.

What she does sure as hell isn't morally good, but its actually understandable from a realpolitik perspective and I can't really imagine even a less-evil warchief being happy at the possibility of the Forsaken leaving the Horde without consequences.

Just remember which one's last name is Menethil.

[The Stormbringer]

I actually think this incident makes Sylvanas much more sympathetic and understandable than before. With Anduin harbouring and supporting a pretender to the throne of Lorderon who actually has a chance of getting some support from the Forsaken, Sylvanas' paranoia with regards to the Alliance seems more justified. If she tries to follow the path of peace then there is a very serious possibility that more undead would follow the Desolate Council and join Calia in the Alliance. That's a big potential threat both to Sylvanas and those Forsaken who follow her as well as the Horde's power in the Eastern Kingdom's as a whole.

What she does sure as hell isn't morally good, but its actually understandable from a realpolitik perspective and I can't really imagine even a less-evil warchief being happy at the possibility of the Forsaken leaving the Horde without consequences.

'A pretender'? She's the only one who has a valid claim to the throne of Lordaeron. She's of the royal bloodline. She's the god damn princess. How is she a 'pretender'?

[Kyphael]

She killed Calia.

I want to kick her ass so badly, that the next Sylvanas' wannabe, is gonna feel it. Which will probably be Gallywix, and it'll likely be on expansion after next because promoting bad Warchiefs and then knocking them off is the new expansion feature.

"NEW RACES"
"NEW HERO CLASS"
"NEW RACES"
"NEW CLASS, NEUTRAL RACE & OVERTHROW HORDE WARCHIE"
"RE-DONE VANILLA MODELS"
"NEW HERO CLASS"
"NEW ALLIED RACES & OVERTHROW HORDE WARCHIEF"

[Aeula]

If she'd let the forsaken back into society they'd start spreading ideas that she really doesn't want spreading. Sylvanas did right by killing them before they could become a threat.

[Tharivor]

Just remember which one's last name is Menethil.

'A pretender'? She's the only one who has a valid claim to the throne of Lordaeron. She's of the royal bloodline. She's the god damn princess. How is she a 'pretender'?

From wikipedia "A pretender is one who is able to maintain a claim that they are entitled to a position of honour or rank, which may be occupied by an incumbent (usually more recognised), or whose powers may currently be exercised by another person or authority. Most often, it refers to a former monarch, or descendant thereof, whose throne is occupied or claimed by a rival or has been abolished."

And you're making my point for me- the fact that she's not just some random human they plucked on the street but actually a pretender with a legitimate claim to the throne makes her a much greater threat to Sylvanas and the Horde-loyal forsaken. She actually has a chance of getting support for her claim even among the undead.