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  1. #1

    Alliance If Warcraft 4 ever gets made, it should ignore both Warcraft 3 and World of Warcraft.

    I keep hearing people talking about Warcraft 4 on forums across the internet. In some instances, people say that it should ignore World of Warcraft completely, which I agree with. People have been saying that Warcraft 4 should be a direct tie-in to Warcraft III: Rein of Chaos which I can understand why. But I don't think that should be the case.

    In all honesty I seriously think Warcraft 4 should be a legitimate sequel to Warcraft II: Beyond the Dark Portal, and ignore the storylines both Warcraft 3 and World of Warcraft. Here's why:

    1. Warcraft 3 erased/retconned nearly all of the lore of the first two games. From the backstory about the Orcs to the opening of the Dark Portal itself. Here's a list below of what WC3 essentially retconned out of the original lore:

      2. In conjunction to point #1, The Orcs were never peaceful loving shamans corrupted by the Legion, they were viscous from the start. In WC1, Ogrim Doomhammer wanted to usurp Blackhand out of lust for power, rather than doing it for a noble cause as stated in WC3. Ner'zul and Guldan didn't have their characters quite as retconned, but still did so none the less. In WC2, Guldan survived the encounter in Sergeras' tomb made it out of the Temple and you (the player) killed him. In WC3, Guldan never made it out of Sergeras' temple and instead died by spirits inside it.

      3. Save from the Orcs, the Elves were also subject to the some of the biggest retconning imaginable. For starters, High Elves were not major arcane users in WC2, rather that role went to Humans. High Elves, even though the used arcane magic were more nature-based and there were High Elf Druids that served alongside Humans during the Second War. (Side Note: WoW also retconned the High Elves further as Blood Elves were only the followers of Kael'Thus who followed him into Outland, not all High Elves like how WoW established.)

      4. In WC2, Deathwing was a Dragon of terror who sided with the Horde, then went to Draenor and Alexstraza was the Dragonqueen. Neither of them were Dragon aspects or anything of the sort. Not to mention that it was established that Deathwing died in WC2.

      5. Also in WC2, The Eredar (All of Them) were demonic beings and Kil'Jeaden was commander of the Legion. This changed in WC3 to where Archimonde was second in command or something of the sort.

      6. In WC2 all of Dreanor was gone with little trace of it left, only parts of it, but not an entire continent of land like in WC3 or WoW: Burning Crusade.

      7. In WC1, also re-inforced in WC2, Medivh was a traitor who opened the Dark Portal on purpose. WC3 portrayed Medivh as more of a tragic character who was once possessed and decided to seek redemption.

      8. In WC2, both Stratholme and Ty's Hand were destroyed by the Orcs. Both of these locations are completely unharmed in WC3 as if nothing happened to them in the Second War.

    The list of retcons btw is substantially longer than this, but I can't list it all here. Warcraft 3 either contradicts the events of the first two games the came before it, retcons the events or ignores them entirely. This trend continued in World of Warcraft, but not so much in Vanilla WoW though. It almost feels like Chris Metzen and the Dev team in charge at the time simply changed things just for the sake of changing things, much like how we saw and continue to see in World of Warcraft, which is irritating and odd.

    A lot of the lore from the books that were released prior to Warcraft 3 were also rectonned heavily when Warcraft 3 was released. Warcraft 1 didn't have much of a story behind it, but Warcraft 2 is where the lore really began to pick up, especially with its expansion "Beyond the Dark Portal", which gave us more insight and context to everything in the Warcraft Universe at the time.

    Hence why Warcraft 2 is the game that truly needs a sequel. The next major Warcraft game needs to fully tie into the lore of Warcraft 2 and the books that were released alongside Warcraft 2. It also needs to have a more realistic look to it, rather than a cartoonish one. WoW makes everything look Cartoon-like.

    No doubt Warcraft 4 will be a whole different game either way, but it will be epic should it be a direct tie-in to Warcraft 2 as Warcraft 3 was more or less a standalone continuation that practically retconned the first two out of existence lore-wise.

    On a side note: Given Blizzard's shift from RTS to Third Person RPG gameplay, I'm honestly unsure if the next Warcaft game will return to its RTS roots. But hopefully it will even though I'm cool with a sequel either way gameplay-wise.

  2. #2
    It's not going to happen in a million years, but personally I'd love it.

    WarCraft 2 was like the game when I was young, and the first game I fell head over heels for. The design was amazing, humans were strong and noble without being boring goody two shoes, the orcs were savage and bloodthirsty in the best ways imaginable, it just was such an overall incredible tale of battles and betrayals.

    I never liked what War3 did with the franchise. The thousand year old legion of demons that are bad because of badness sake is children book level of story telling, as is forcing everyone to be good and nice and oh no demons made them bad bla bla bla.

    So yeah, I'd love more games with the War2 design and spirit, although I don't think Blizzard could deliver on that front anymore. I was really hyped for WoD for the reason of War2 nostalgia but it turned out to be the worst thing the company ever produced, and even if they would've had time and resources to not cut half of the expansion it would still have been really poor. It's just Blizzards modern style, where everything is friendly and light and funny, which isn't a bad thing per se, but they will never be able to release something with the atmosphere and design of War2.
    Quote Originally Posted by Justpassing View Post
    >"*any change happens*"

    OMG BLIZZ YOU HAD ONE JOB!!

  3. #3

    Horde Couldn't agree more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrif View Post
    It's not going to happen in a million years, but personally I'd love it.

    WarCraft 2 was like the game when I was young, and the first game I fell head over heels for. The design was amazing, humans were strong and noble without being boring goody two shoes, the orcs were savage and bloodthirsty in the best ways imaginable, it just was such an overall incredible tale of battles and betrayals.

    I never liked what War3 did with the franchise. The thousand year old legion of demons that are bad because of badness sake is children book level of story telling, as is forcing everyone to be good and nice and oh no demons made them bad bla bla bla.

    So yeah, I'd love more games with the War2 design and spirit, although I don't think Blizzard could deliver on that front anymore. I was really hyped for WoD for the reason of War2 nostalgia but it turned out to be the worst thing the company ever produced, and even if they would've had time and resources to not cut half of the expansion it would still have been really poor. It's just Blizzards modern style, where everything is friendly and light and funny, which isn't a bad thing per se, but they will never be able to release something with the atmosphere and design of War2.
    Amen dude. I feel ya. Warcraft 2 had a great story going for it until Warcraft 3 decided to do away with it. It's as I said, its almost like Blizzard under Chris Metzen and the Dev team at the time changed things around just to change things. I couldn't agree more with you point on Warlords of Draenor. That was an insult to the franchise overall. It's sad how Blizzard has gone from being a company that was focused on good quality storytelling and with a more dark and realistic tone to storytelling that although is OK, it won't ever make something as good as Warcraft 2 story-wise. Even though I wish they could.

  4. #4
    The Lightbringer Skizzit's Avatar
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    Yeah, Blizzard should ignore two of their most wildly popular and successful games and instead make a direct sequel to a 23+ year old title. Makes perfect sense.

    Side note. Every game in the Warcraft franchise has had pretty much the same art design. Blizzard's games have always been "cartoon-like." Going for a more realistic look now would not only feel wrong but would also be boring since as far as games are concerned, more realistic usually just means make everything brown.

  5. #5
    The Lightbringer The-Shan's Avatar
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    If they do WarCraft 4 I agree it should be like the Star Wars EU being deleted, if not an entire reboot. However, like the Star Wars reboot, it should borrow the best concepts from WoW(Star Wars EU), like Pandaria, the nature of the Forsaken, the character designs/art like Deathwing, and the refined landscapes+settings you get in places that were not defined in the RTS series, like Northrend, Kul Tiras, Zandalar, etc. The World Building is great in WoW, the storytelling is very bad, so borrowing that world-building and repurposing it would be fantastic.
    thinly veiled high elf thread

  6. #6
    I wish blizzard do a work similar to elder of scroll but reversed while ESO take place 1000y before the single player games, WC4 should take place 1000y after wow, alliance and horde are relic of the past and heroes we are familiar with like malfurion, thrall, sylvanas etc are just legend from a remote era.

    The game should be a single player open world a la skyrim were the player is tasked to explore zones stop in villages or subzones in wow are not even in the map and fight completely new enemies (with maybe the occasional connection with the age of legends) you get the chance to interact and team up with races who in wow are archenemies.
    Quote Originally Posted by caervek View Post
    Obviously this issue doesn't affect me however unlike some raiders I don't see the point in taking satisfaction in this injustice, it's wrong, just because it doesn't hurt me doesn't stop it being wrong, the player base should stand together when Blizzard do stupid shit like this not laugh at the ones being victimised.

  7. #7
    If they ever do something else with Warcraft the whole universe needs a complete reboot. The lore is just unsalvageable at this point with constant revivals, time travel, transdimensional bs and so on.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Faldric View Post
    If they ever do something else with Warcraft the whole universe needs a complete reboot. The lore is just unsalvageable at this point with constant revivals, time travel, transdimensional bs and so on.
    Or set 1k years into the future etc... The amount of retconning and established lore being tossed out the window because their writers are terrible is insane.

  9. #9
    These retcons in WC3 never really bothered me that much. They needed to move away from the constant Alliance vs Horde theme at this point and I'd say they did a good job with that in WC3, which barely had any HvA conflict. Most characters we love today were also made in WC3, while WoW hardly writes any good new characters (most of them have already died at this point like Varian, Garrosh and Tirion). The problem WoW faces now is that they have reached the limits of where they can bring the story go, but still continues to come up with random threats like the Void Lords and the Light apparently being some kind of evil force aswell. The Burning Legion has been the main threat since WC1 as they were the ones corrupting the orcs, now that they have been dealt the game should've just been over by now.

    I would like to see WC4 being darker like with WC1 and WC2. Less with the stupid parodies, lame Hollywood clichés with good/evil, focussing the story on a few characters, make characters evil as f*ck without pulling the corrupted card. They can easily make a WC4 after WC3 and try to return to the WC2 design. They can portray Arthas as some dark and unbeatable villain who will go around the world laying waste to peaceful cities who then bolster his forces to swarm every continent at the same time.

  10. #10
    WoW = Warcraft 4.

    Wait for WC3 remastered.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tziva View Post
    This game clearly has some kind of supernatural hold on people. Not only do people still play it, but some people who don't play it still want to come on to the forums and spend their time talking about it!

    WHAT A CRAZY WORLD THIS IS.

  11. #11
    IF a Warcraft 4 ever gets made (it probably won’t because of WoW), it will simply continue on from where WoW leaves off. Thinking otherwise is simply wishful thinking.

  12. #12
    Herald of the Titans Yay Evil's Avatar
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    I think they should just reboot the WC RTS storyline honestly. Ignore anything that happens in WoW and recreate a world where it is much darker and hopeless. No more fairy tale gods and goddess. No more "burning legion" clown demons. Just despair, metal, and horror.

    -Human factions are already fractured into kingdoms who already war with one another quite regularly. Elves and Dwarves are not necessarily allies.
    -Technologically starved society. Nothing beyond medieval steel and some black powder reserved just for the wizards. (think LotR) I don't want to see guns or tanks.
    -No overuse of magic. You still have your mages and clerics, but I would much rather keep it low fantasy.
    -Keep the humanoid races to a minimal. Dwarves, Elfs, trolls, humans and various other races are carefully selected. There doesn't need to be 500 races that can walk and wear cloths on Azeroth.
    -Orcs are savage, brutal and demonic. They not only kill their enemies, but cannibalize and @#$% their victims alive. Think Firefly Reavers.
    -M Rated
    -Old Gods could be incorporated since they would fit the new dark theme.
    -Start with Orcs and Humans and then add the expacs later. They could also add a third Undead race if they want a trifecta.
    Last edited by Yay Evil; 2018-05-21 at 08:39 PM.

  13. #13
    Personally i came up with a idea a friend of mine liked what if Wc4 is basically a Chronicle of sorts like you play through the events of Vannlia, up to legion and when BFA is over and done with its released as a DLC campaign similar to the nova campaign in sc2.

    And it be like when you reach the TBC portion of the campaign you unlock the blood elf and Draenei factions. But the biggest selling point of the idea is you can import your WoW character into the game fully voice acted and in cutscenes so it makes the whole experience feel more personal instead of you "Following a major lore figure around"

  14. #14
    Dreadlord Evaddon's Avatar
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    No, no it shouldn't. It should take place directly after WoW concludes. Or its kind of pointless in my opinion.

    You've spent years taking part in events, making the world change. It would be nice to see the effects of what our champions/heroes/adventures did after the fact

    But I doubt will get a Warcraft 4, since WoW is 'Warcraft 4' continuations of those stories and most importantly in the definitive end to those stories sprung up by Warcraft 1,2,3.
    Last edited by Evaddon; 2018-05-21 at 08:47 PM.

  15. #15
    Titan Aeula's Avatar
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    Sounds utterly boring.

    WC3 did away with the old lore because the old lore was bad and generic as hell.
    Blood Elves are basically High Elves. Slightly different eye color and backstory, but if you want to be a light skinned elf, that is basically a Blood Elf. Giving that to the Alliance would blur the line between factions.-Ion Hazzikostas: Game Director for World of Warcraft
    Quote Originally Posted by Lionknight View Post
    some of threads do bully high elf fans to a point where they might end up losing their minds to a point of a mass shooting.

  16. #16
    A friend of mine once told me of his idea - that Warcraft 4 could go with the story of WoW, but instead of us being the almighty adventurers, we are the ones that control the armies, commanders and so on. I personally find it intriguing enough for a game. It could show us a new point of view and perspective.

  17. #17
    Give me WC3:R, Blizz! The Stormbringer's Avatar
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    You're nuts if you think they'd skip Warcraft 3. It was one of their biggest selling games of all time, was extremely memorable, and set up things for World of Warcraft to give them a launch several times larger than they ever expected.

    Avatar by Ely

  18. #18
    If they made Warcraft 4, I felt it should be after Sargeras is defeated and Azeroth awakens...So 200 years after WoW perhaps?

    Whatever happens after Azeroth wakes up can be explained in so many ways, they can easily create something. Maybe we get taken to another world (!!), maybe something creates a replica of Azeroth so all her 'children' can continue living the life they've been accustomed to for eternity. Maybe Azeroth goes back to sleep (??). Not sure the lore of Titans very well but as I said, they could come up with something.

    There would be tons of new curiosity as to how Warcraft 4 was shaped into the world it is (and what happened at the end of WoW), and it might even bring new passion to WoW since we know something epic is coming up.

  19. #19
    "Ignore?" No. They happened. Otherwise it would be a mess, some minor retcons aside.

    Move on from? Yes. I'd love to see a semi-franchise reboot when WoW becomes too stale sales-wise (long way off) to be sustainable with new characters in a different age with some context. It would be, for once, without being hindered through a history of pre-existing conventions or characters that have outstayed their welcome or have influenced too much in too short of a timespan. Basically nothing prior to WC3 matters anymore, whereas WC3's successes shaped virtually every damn thing that happened in Warcraft in the last 15 years other than a brief filler arc with some orcs and one chapter with some gold-goats.

    Hell, even just introducing the way the world was centuries later without a giant wall of exposition would be interesting, since players would be rediscovering the world entirely and trying to understand "Why did it turn out THIS way?" through game context clues. Azeroth would feel new rather than just it being a sort of Cataclysm 2.0.

    But again - not gonna happen until WoW's sub base tanks and is not recoverable. And as much as people talk about that being anywhere near the case, it's not. Like, even remotely.

  20. #20
    You can't just ignore lore that has had so much time invested into it. I understand where you're coming from, but a lot of people like the new lore. Most people in contact with the franchise know nothing else, you can't just be like "no, you don't understand, it was always this way," even if it might end up in a better story.
    Plus even if they did that, do you really trust the team that took WoW in the direction they did to do the lore you love justice?

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