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  1. #81
    Some spe are definitely harder than others, but it doesn't make them too hard to be executed by experienced players.

    -if you need more apm just be faster, spe are gcd capped so it shouldn't be an issue
    -if you miss some procs just shut down the tv, music, phone and concentrate a bit more.

    i don't consider wow hard at all but i can understand a well done rotation + mythic mecanics can be complicated to achieve for some unexperienced players.

  2. #82
    Is Fury even more spammy in BFA or?
    Last edited by Tyze; 2018-05-28 at 11:13 AM.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Tradu View Post
    Ability damage is just a tuning thing. If Arms hits buttons less frequently than Fury but the abilities do the same damage per spec, that's obviously something that has to be tuned. And there's clearly varying degrees of "waiting between abilities". If Arms is too slow(haven't noticed it myself, but then again I only did some quests with PvP talents, which give a ton of rage), they could move it around on the spectrum a bit, the spec doesn't need a filler necessarily. And in the case of Fury, I never felt that FS was really needed between BT, RB(with resets, which actually happen a lot), Rampage and especially once you add Execute into the mix.
    Arms does have filler though in the way of Slam (or Whirlwind if you take Fervor of Battle), which affects up-time on Trauma or Rend. The problem is that rage generation currently doesn't allow for much use of these abilities. As I've said before, this could all be just because of the shitty starter gear they've stuck us with, but seeing how bad it feels with only 10% haste makes me think it's going to need another 20% to feel good. Being that dependent on a single stat is just going to create the same scaling issues they've been trying to avoid. Ironically, it has usually been Fury with these scaling issues but they've mostly addressed them with the recent BfA changes. Now Arms is saddled with them. They need to go back to the drawing board with Rage as a mechanic, as well as redefine the Arms class fantasy. "Slower but heavier hits" doesn't mean shit when you have to stack a ton of haste to negate the "slower" portion in order to perform adequately. I would rather Arms have a more complex rotation than Fury's wild swinging for the fences. Arms should be the "smarter" spec compared to Fury's button mashing, like the difference between Frost and Unholy DK's these days.

    Either way both Warrior specs have filler, or weaker buttons we push when we don't have stronger buttons to push. I think we need these weaker buttons for the sake of rotational depth and balance, but obviously we want to limit how often we have to push these weaker buttons. As you said, with the way Fury has been playing, Furious Slash hasn't seen heavy use in recent days but I like the way that Frenzy works with the weaving of FS to maintain its buff. I think that is a great active talent for adding some optional complexity to the rotation. Arms gets to choose which filler it's going to use between Slam and Whirlwind which affects what bleed it's going to use, but none of these choices add any additional complexity apart from Rend, which has a minor impact at best. All of these abilities are tied to rage generation so there's not really much active thinking going on with Arms. It's all just passive and your rotational choices depend on Tactician procs and what abilities you can press based on how much rage you passively generated, the latter of which has proved to be problematic for the entire class in the past, but it seems like they've only figured it out for Prot and Fury while Arms seems to exist in a vacuum. But I digress....
    Last edited by Wolfman31; 2018-05-28 at 12:58 PM.
    "He who lives without discipline dies without honor" - Viking proverb

  4. #84
    Now that I finally had a chance to log on and play it in the Beta, and I confidently say that this is the most fun version of Fury since MoP/Cata. It doesn't have a lot of depth, but it has a lot to react to, and a lot of variation, so you have to stay on your toes. Meanwhile you're able to pump out huge flurries of hits the likes of which we haven't seen since the Heroic Strike days. This is miles better than WoD Fury was, and is even better than Legion fury too.

    If you are feeling worried based off of reading the changes, hold off of judgement until you get a chance to play with them. It feels extremely fast, badass and fun, and there are small things we can do to optimize ourselves every time we enrage. This legitimately may be the highest skill-cap Fury since WoD, and it is DEFINITELY the fastest!

    New Recklessness is freaking awesome too. What the tooltip alone doesn't tell you is that all that extra rage means you are able to use 2-4 Rampages, at least, during the duration (based on your tier 75 choice, and especially if you take Reckless Abandon). Increasing Rage generation feeds into our specs rotation much better than crit now, and feels absolutely epic.

    And don't get me started on the new Execute! Especially while questing this one is FUN! The 20 rage it generates has you ready to charge off to another mob for another 20, likely prepping you for an immediate Rampage.

    Meanwhile the new and improved Furious Slash even feels great. If you notice that you need *slightly* more rage for your next rampage, and have everything ready to burn for the enrage window, you can use that instead of Whirlwind (WW doesn't seem to generate rage yet like they were saying?). This is the first time in ages that we've had any benefit from paying attention to how much rage we have on that minute of a level.

    This is, across the board, a dramatic upgrade from Legion.
    Last edited by Firefall; 2018-05-28 at 09:28 PM.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Valkaneer View Post
    That statement is just absurd. Try doing Fearl without all your addons back in BC. It was not easy and considered to be one of the most difficult classes to play when you had no mods to track anything. People like you seem to forget or weren't around back then and don't know how hard it was playing with no mods. Demo in WoD I think it was is proably one of the hardest specs ever in the game, cata arms after dragon soul very hard, Sub Rogue had one that was super hard an xpac or two ago, and Ehn Shamy in MoP I think it was simC as the higest dps spec, but it was so hard to do that normally it was lowest becasue people just couldn't do it.
    This is all garbage. From someone that was there - some of these, especially the Enh Shaman, you have simply made up.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    Most rows seem to have decent choices, large differences in tuning aside. I'm not quite sure how Massacre is supposed to be relevant with a 6 second CD Execute however. Seems like it should at least be a guaranteed proc.

    Most of all, it seems like Haste will become a bit of a dead, or at least low capped, stat for Fury if some talents end up shining. We could get 10% from Enrage, 10% from Frothing Berserker, and 15% from Frenzy. The Frenzy one can be trusted to be up the vast majority of the time, and when Enraged you immediately gain 35% for 6 seconds before even factoring gear. If Blizzard's intention is for Enrage uptime to be about 60%, that means we'll have 25% Haste for the majority of a fight right out of the gate which is considerable.

    Of course that assumes no tuning is done and all that, but the design of our Haste level having an ebb and flow seems nice to me and fits the Enrage mechanic far better than autoattack damage ever did. I'm also really, really happy we're losing the Juggernaut mechanic and that hopefully our Execute can stand on its own without requiring the class legendary to be good.
    I just don't see it being dead for one simple reason, haste is the only stat that increases our rage gain.

    We don't get extra rage on crit anymore (I could be wrong here.)

    Nor does versatility or mastery.

    So extra haste will ALWAYS lead to more rampages and higher uptime on enrage, so chances are our stats will be haste > mastery = vers > crit.

    Versatility and mastery will really just depend on which one gains more value per point so it's a pretty safe bet that mastery will pull ahead.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Drayiicha View Post
    This is all garbage. From someone that was there - some of these, especially the Enh Shaman, you have simply made up.
    I think it might be WW Monk he's thinking of, I've heard that mentioned before. It simmed stupidly high, people complained, and Blizz just said "it's fine, you won't be able to pull it off" and were found to be right. Nobody got anywhere close to the theoretical output.

  8. #88
    Super changes! Lately they are very spot on on their changes! Both on prot paladin and now on fury warrior! Fury will be fury again, fast paced gameplay!
    The trick of selling a FFA-PvP MMO is creating the illusion among gankers that they are respectable fighters while protecting them from respectable fights, as their less skilled half would be massacred and quit instead of “HTFU” as they claim.

  9. #89
    Anxiously waiting until we see what they have coming this next week or two before I can say fury is fixed in BfA.

    Right now it looks good but I've become extremely pessimistic and it's blizzard that made me that way.

    "better late than never"

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by AwkwardSquirtle View Post
    I think it might be WW Monk he's thinking of, I've heard that mentioned before. It simmed stupidly high, people complained, and Blizz just said "it's fine, you won't be able to pull it off" and were found to be right. Nobody got anywhere close to the theoretical output.
    Correct story but it was Ehn shamy. I just can't remember which iteration it was for certain.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Drayiicha View Post
    This is all garbage. From someone that was there - some of these, especially the Enh Shaman, you have simply made up.
    Really, seems you have a poor memeory, Locks use to have to summon and resummon pets etc mid fight and a whole host of stupid crap, easily competes with Arms Cata for hardest spec ever. Anyone who played Demo back then know how hard it was twisting pets along with metamorphosis, buffs ect. I doubt you played a lock back then since you don't seem to have a clue what im talking about. Still you can talk a lot of trash now 11 years later about how easy Fearl was in BC, and it's easy to do so when there is no way to prove you did it perfectly all those years ago without Weak Auras and Dot trackers.

    I bet you're using Addons right now to make it easier, I want to see you playing heroc with Zero add-ons, no weak auras, or DBM etc, Dot trackers, GTFO ect, I mean nothing, and playing one of the more complicated specs keeping up at least 3 dots (might have been 4) while keeping track of combo points, debuffs, managing your energy bar with 2 combo point builders, your own CDs all without addons was not easy and brainless like you like to talk. And i'm short selling the difficulty of that spec Im not taking the time to go back and lookup it all. But you're talking out your ass.
    Last edited by Valkaneer; 2018-05-30 at 05:01 AM.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Valkaneer View Post
    Correct story but it was Ehn shamy. I just can't remember which iteration it was for certain.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Really, seems you have a poor memeory, Locks use to have to summon and resummon pets etc mid fight and a whole host of stupid crap, easily competes with Arms Cata for hardest spec ever. Anyone who played Demo back then know how hard it was twisting pets along with metamorphosis, buffs ect. I doubt you played a lock back then since you don't seem to have a clue what im talking about. Still you can talk a lot of trash now 11 years later about how easy Fearl was in BC, and it's easy to do so when there is no way to prove you did it perfectly all those years ago without Weak Auras and Dot trackers.

    I bet you're using Addons right now to make it easier, I want to see you playing heroc with Zero add-ons, no weak auras, or DBM etc, Dot trackers, GTFO ect, I mean nothing, and playing one of the more complicated specs keeping up at least 3 dots (might have been 4) while keeping track of combo points, debuffs, managing your energy bar with 2 combo point builders, your own CDs all without addons was not easy and brainless like you like to talk. And i'm short selling the difficulty of that spec Im not taking the time to go back and lookup it all. But you're talking out your ass.
    But.. nothing you mentioned here is/was difficult either? And 4 DoT's!? Without an addon!? Well, that's just impossible. It isn't like you can just use the built in timers and.. look at them? Crazy times.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Euroguy View Post
    Is Fury even more spammy in BFA or?
    At the moment, yes your haste makes you press more buttons faster. Enrage is up enough (at least on the training dummy) that I feel like I'm perma haste and hitting everything all at once. It actually feels pretty nice.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Drayiicha View Post
    But.. nothing you mentioned here is/was difficult either? And 4 DoT's!? Without an addon!? Well, that's just impossible. It isn't like you can just use the built in timers and.. look at them? Crazy times.
    Nice how you left out half the other stuff I said, nice strawman. Fairy fire, mangle, Rip, rake, shred, power shift (mechanic to get energy back), ravage, tigers fury, ferocious bite, savage roar, paw, Beserk. I can probably keep going. Keeping all dots going while keeping up all buffs and debuffs was quite difficult. There was little room for mistakes. There was no Pandemic until Cata, so you did not clip dots or buffs, you cast them exactly as they ended, clipping dots was a significant dps loss. So you better have the right amount of Counter Points available at the right time. Seems you remember little of that time frame. Now do that with no addons while doing a boss fight. Don't forget at that time your debuffs bleeds etc were shown with all the rest of the raids, all 40 peoples, and hope you knew which one was yours.

    You guys can talk big, but you can't possibly prove you could do a rotation like Feral and not make mistakes with an extremely unforgiving spec. There is a reason its called one of the hardest specs ever in the game.
    Last edited by Valkaneer; 2018-06-01 at 02:15 AM.

  14. #94
    What a bunch of useless garbage this thread has degraded into, "SOME SPECS ARE HURD! NUHUNH!" Please for the love of god, stop with your childish insults and just shut up. Post something relative to the actual thread. /end rant

    That being said. Im loving the direction Fury is moving in, although i dislike the siegebreaker ability. It sounds like a copy/paste from arms.

  15. #95
    Fury is really fluid now, I still dont understand why they are pushing furious slash, are they wanting it to act like Arms Slam ability?

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by kran1um View Post
    Fury is really fluid now, I still dont understand why they are pushing furious slash, are they wanting it to act like Arms Slam ability?
    Furious slash becoming a talent sounds more like they are moving away from it. Siege breaker on the other hand I'm unsure of but I can't say I have a better idea for that talent slot that could compete with "longer recklessness" or "more frequent recklessness".

  17. #97
    Option 1: Making the whole row about Reck and make Siegebreaker the same cooldown/duration as reck so we would have: longer reck vs more recks vs stronger reck

    Option 2: (The one i would prefer) Adjust the numbers and make enrage reset its cooldown > stronger enrage windows. for this one the dmg buff has to be rly low though for it to not be overpowered, like 2-5% maybe? so it would always be your nr1 go to button after enraging.

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