Balance Changes - Build 26707

[Muddler]

I just don't understand why they nerfed boomkin, we aren't even doing well.

I think balance druid in bfa is going to be it's best iteration yet

[Lahis]

Let me spell it out for you: the mechanics are good, numbers are poor.

[elynos]

Let me spell it out for you: the mechanics are good, numbers are poor.

Thank you for spelling that out for them

[Muddler]

Let me spell it out for you: the mechanics are good, numbers are poor.

They can use always tune numbers down the line. If the mechanics are good, then it's a good sign.

[huth]

Number tuning will happen throughout the expansion. But we're likely stuck with the mechanics we have now.

[elynos]

Wowhead is saying the Moonfire nerf was to feral only and mmo champ doesn’t specify not sure what’s up

[exochaft]

Wowhead is saying the Moonfire nerf was to feral only and mmo champ doesn’t specify not sure what’s up

Pretty sure it's just feral, since my numbers didn't change on the beta as boomie (assuming the patch is live, honestly didn't check).

[nlc]

On the beta moonfire direct damage is currently 14.5% of SP (discounting modifiers), I dunno what it was before but I believe it was nerfed.

[elynos]

On the beta moonfire direct damage is currently 14.5% of SP (discounting modifiers), I dunno what it was before but I believe it was nerfed.

14.5% is what it was already at.

[nlc]

14.5% is what it was already at.

Fair enough. For some reason I thought it had been 22% but, yeah, that was changed 2 months ago.

[Quackie]

What's the point of nerfing Moonfire? Boomkins don't need a nerf, but I can think of a couple classes that definitely do.

[huth]

What's the point of nerfing Moonfire? Boomkins don't need a nerf, but I can think of a couple classes that definitely do.

Moonfire wasn't nerfed for Balance. Only Feral.

[elynos]

shooting stars buff!! that looks juicy!

[nlc]

shooting stars buff!! that looks juicy!

Unless they reduced the hidden proc chance. I wonder if there's any way to find that out other than empirical testing.

[exochaft]

Unless they reduced the hidden proc chance. I wonder if there's any way to find that out other than empirical testing.

I would hazard a guess that they didn't reduce the proc rate, as such a change wouldn't make sense if the change is supposed to be net neutral at worst. I mean at that point, why bother, unless there was some latency issue with tons of mobs and too quick of a proc rate (although this isn't D3, so I highly doubt it).

[kaid]

Playing last night and i was wrecking stuff pretty hard as boomkin I was topping or close to topping the DPS charts on the raid bosses I did. The rotation feels a lot faster with empowerments popping up just doing your normal build up and AP was not an issue at all. They seem to be pretty well setup going into the expansion from what I am able to see in game.

[Grusalugg]

I am really liking Oneth's Intuition with Starlord. Helps you go 3 stacks a lot faster.

[Hairsweater]

Go to Warcraft Logs, select heroic, 1 week of logs, and check as examples for ST Varimathras and an MT example, Coven. I meant to link them but I can't post those until I've made more posts on MMO, apparently. I believe they purge logs after big talent change patches like this one, so you should be looking at only 8.0 data.

Obviously things are not balanced (despite multiple balance passes that have happened before the new talent changes went live), but what I was concerned with was the relative spread. So it looks like we're strong on multi target fights, weak on single target (again). Since Blizz likes each class to shine in different scenarios, I doubt this will change at 120. That is likely our brand moving forward. Even if you squish the highest performers to the middle, and buff the lower performers w the same intent, we are still probably going to be bad at st. In fact, we were particularly bad at st the longer the Legion expansion went until at the very end we were in the bottom 20% of specs in single target. The reason this is an issue, most raid fights are either st or are divided into segments where they might as well be (like Kingaroth). So to be in the middle of the pack of dps averaged over the instance, we have to be extra over the top good with multi target. That relative standing looks to be similar to Legion- bad at st, compensating by being over the top on good on mt.

The current balance I believe is intended for 110 live, not projecting for 120. When Legion officially dropped, tuning adjustments happened that were projected to balance things at max level. Would imagine they'll plan on doing the same thing this time around. Not sure if I want to keep moving forward with a class that is so bad to average at most raid encounters. As a competitive player (somewhat, around 80th percentile performance), it really frustrated me this past raid tier.

Ultimately, I'm really hoping we aren't intended to be this bad st and it's more of an issue of how people's legendaries and tier are interacting with their talents, something that obviously won't be present at 120. Assassination rogues and Holy priests for example, are probably spiking so out of proportion because of this.

[Zan15]

Go to Warcraft Logs, select heroic, 1 week of logs, and check as examples for ST Varimathras and an MT example, Coven. I meant to link them but I can't post those until I've made more posts on MMO, apparently. I believe they purge logs after big talent change patches like this one, so you should be looking at only 8.0 data.

Obviously things are not balanced (despite multiple balance passes that have happened before the new talent changes went live), but what I was concerned with was the relative spread. So it looks like we're strong on multi target fights, weak on single target (again). Since Blizz likes each class to shine in different scenarios, I doubt this will change at 120. That is likely our brand moving forward. Even if you squish the highest performers to the middle, and buff the lower performers w the same intent, we are still probably going to be bad at st. In fact, we were particularly bad at st the longer the Legion expansion went until at the very end we were in the bottom 20% of specs in single target. The reason this is an issue, most raid fights are either st or are divided into segments where they might as well be (like Kingaroth). So to be in the middle of the pack of dps averaged over the instance, we have to be extra over the top good with multi target. That relative standing looks to be similar to Legion- bad at st, compensating by being over the top on good on mt.

The current balance I believe is intended for 110 live, not projecting for 120. When Legion officially dropped, tuning adjustments happened that were projected to balance things at max level. Would imagine they'll plan on doing the same thing this time around. Not sure if I want to keep moving forward with a class that is so bad to average at most raid encounters. As a competitive player (somewhat, around 80th percentile performance), it really frustrated me this past raid tier.

Ultimately, I'm really hoping we aren't intended to be this bad st and it's more of an issue of how people's legendaries and tier are interacting with their talents, something that obviously won't be present at 120. Assassination rogues and Holy priests for example, are probably spiking so out of proportion because of this.

Well discount Ret pallies and Rogues as they were busted and exploiting gear and talents.

it does once again show why you have 7 melee recruits for every range recruit.

and now you have melee beating you on fights where AOE range should shine. the same classes that are doing crazy ST.

well at least affliction is doing alright still....lol

- - - Updated - - -

Playing last night and i was wrecking stuff pretty hard as boomkin I was topping or close to topping the DPS charts on the raid bosses I did. The rotation feels a lot faster with empowerments popping up just doing your normal build up and AP was not an issue at all. They seem to be pretty well setup going into the expansion from what I am able to see in game.

really was all the melee afk?

[vorchun]

What's with the guide @ icy-veins? Advising Sephuz + boots for ST? Are there any maths that supports wearing Sephuz that you can't proc almost nowhere in the raid over Fel Essence which gives same amount of stats (and haste > crit) + legendary effect that almost always is useful? I mean IV is notorious how bad their guides are, but this is something else.