Hard to believe Frost is a real spec

[Hoeth]

It really isn't. It was nice, but healer have had way stronger CDs for ages, warriors buff the whole raid a bunch of extra HP, for intends and purposes healing them and to be honest it was only strong at all because of the wonky way it worked on simultaneous dmg to the whole raid. If they had actually properly coded to check for the cap it wouldn't have been much at all.

If they would bring it back it would probably go to emo huntards as well anyway..

A 10sec 60% AOE magical damage reduction on a 2min CD would be absolutely bonkers in raid.

Of course it wasn't that powerful when it was available for PVE, but he was speaking of the way it is designed in Legion.

[Cosmic Janitor]

A 10sec 60% AOE magical damage reduction on a 2min CD would be absolutely bonkers in raid.

Of course it wasn't that powerful when it was available for PVE, but he was speaking of the way it is designed in Legion.

What do I care about the PvP version (or anyone for that matter), the skill existed long before it was degraded to that. It's not like half the spells already work differently in PvP, give me back my raid-utility :/.

[Hoeth]

What do I care about the PvP version (or anyone for that matter), the skill existed long before it was degraded to that. It's not like half the spells already work differently in PvP, give me back my raid-utility :/.

The poster you quoted noted that the current AMZ is too powerful to be functional in PVE. You countered by suggesting that healers have better CDs and that Commanding Shout would be comparable to AMZ, which if you are comparing them as they exist today is not even remotely true.

If you want/expect to get AMZ back in PVE it would only be in a vastly inferior form to the current version. 60% magical damage reduction for the whole party on a 2min CD would nearly break M+ runs

[Cosmic Janitor]

The poster you quoted noted that the current AMZ is too powerful to be functional in PVE. You countered by suggesting that healers have better CDs and that Commanding Shout would be comparable to AMZ, which if you are comparing them as they exist today is not even remotely true.

If you want/expect to get AMZ back in PVE it would only be in a vastly inferior form to the current version. 60% magical damage reduction for the whole party on a 2min CD would nearly break M+ runs

Balancing a spell for PvE is a trivial given, that much should be obvious.

[JohnSmith99]

Really, all the things together!!

No control
No mobility
No utility aside from DG
Poor defense

[GaryWinthorpe]

I think it's fine

[Baddok21]

AMZ providing 20% DR in PvE while the pvp talent increases the value to 60% isnt exactly a difficult concept brainstorm.

as Haidaes said its pretty trivial to design really.

[Unholyground]

PvP expansion, i lol'ed so hard.
Frost is losing stun, IBF heal, AMS dispell, haste, FS additional range etc. Every class and spec is losing something and getting other things. So far, frost only lost. I will join discussion when they finally update this spec when they promised over month ago.

Also root, really? You dmg enemy and your root is gone, thats uber importante for frost dk. Chillstreak or op rune weapon also nerfed in current model? Frost does not feel good right now on beta.

They said like handful of specs wont be seeing their changes until after BfA launch so it is pointless to complain now.

[msdos]

AMZ providing 20% DR in PvE while the pvp talent increases the value to 60% isnt exactly a difficult concept brainstorm.

as Haidaes said its pretty trivial to design really.

Trivial to design? I could design circles around all the crap they have, doesn't mean it should be done. Hell, I remember the Shaman design team basically stole (incorporated) half their ideas for the class from this forum poster named Nert on the Shaman forums back in the day.

[Baddok21]

Trivial to design? I could design circles around all the crap they have, doesn't mean it should be done. Hell, I remember the Shaman design team basically stole (incorporated) half their ideas for the class from this forum poster named Nert on the Shaman forums back in the day.

Oh i agree in principle only because i remember when we had AMZ in PvE, Most Dks didnt know how to properly use, Complained about using it and wanted a Different raid utility spell.

though with the auto drop macro functionality they made in Legion it would probably have less complaints about using it now then back then, it certainly cleared up alot of the DnD dropping complaints.

[Stormwolf64]

What i gather from this thread is that frost is on its way to become real shit, and half the gang are not ready to admit to it yet. Well, complain away and pray that Blizzard listens, as they've not made announcements yet and might be willing to make changes before that happens. Class fantasy should absolutely take a backseat to how fun a class is to play. Moving like a sack of potatoes when people just wait for you to arrive is no fun for you or the ones waiting. Having no control or bad self healing makes for terrible gameplay as well. Overall output when left alone is strictly not the whole thing a class should be about. Especially when you're making a spec commitment in an expansion like legion. Don't know how that will work out in BFA, but they should most certainly sit back and think about how fun the spec is overall and not just if it fulfills their wet class fantasy or not.

[Cosmic Janitor]

They essentially made minor improvements, touched up some really shit talents (GA) and changed how our CD works a bit. Its not much but it should be an upgrade over a non-artefact frost spec. Biggest issue is probably utility/survivability in high m+ right now as frost, since all you bring is dps (which is a balancing point and you still need to decide between ST and AoE), since our CDs are fairly weak and have easily hittable caps. I'm not sure how I would contribute to a run besides do some grip interrupts if there is stuff I can kill on the side to reset the CD.

It's not all doom and gloom.. /shrug

[Stormwolf64]

They essentially made minor improvements, touched up some really shit talents (GA) and changed how our CD works a bit. Its not much but it should be an upgrade over a non-artefact frost spec. Biggest issue is probably utility/survivability in high m+ right now as frost, since all you bring is dps (which is a balancing point and you still need to decide between ST and AoE), since our CDs are fairly weak and have easily hittable caps. I'm not sure how I would contribute to a run besides do some grip interrupts if there is stuff I can kill on the side to reset the CD.

It's not all doom and gloom.. /shrug

Does sound like its mostly doom and gloom though.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Not everyone can be a rogue or ww monk .

[Ange]

Can you guys go even back to a pureDPS after playing a hybrid?

I played vanilla/TBC a rogue and after 600d /played on DK I can't even imagine the bore-fest of playing a pureDPS as main.

I did not follow the BfA Beta M+ tunings/changes but I just hope we dont have OP immunity soaker again, everything else seems just better than in LEGION for all 3 specs.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Can you guys go even back to a pureDPS after playing a hybrid?

I played vanilla/TBC a rogue and after 600d /played on DK I can't even imagine the bore-fest of playing a pureDPS as main.

I did not follow the BfA Beta M+ tunings/changes but I just hope we dont have OP immunity soaker again, everything else seems just better than in LEGION for all 3 specs.

No problems switching to pure DPS, while I do tank it's so sparse most of the time, it's barely worth noting (especially in my current guild). I would probably play my mage if that wouldn't mean grinding 40+ factions back to exalted to get the "main" feeling.

[ShiyoKozuki]

UH and frost both have essentially zero survivability in pvp. It makes no sense, bring back defense stance for dk.