While we are on the topic, what are your thoughts on Mythic+ in Legion?

[Feida]

Considering the thread on Blizz's forums is tailored for "feedback", I thought I would make a thread on this platform for the purpose of discussion. ^{or ranting}

Here are my thoughts

What are your thoughts on Legion's "best" feature?

[Talvindius]

Best feature so far in WoW's history.

[Sylvaeres]

Best feature so far in WoW's history.

I agree wholeheartedly with this. It's the single greatest addition to the game that they've ever done, and it succeeded in keeping dungeons relevant all expansion. It also managed to replace challenge modes without ruining the legacy(for lack of a better word )

[Marxman]

Great addition that has some kinks to iron out, namely difficulty spikes with additional affixes at fixed points, and huge disparities between affix difficulty.

[Toybox]

Great addition that has some kinks to iron out, namely difficulty spikes with additional affixes at fixed points, and huge disparities between affix difficulty.

This.

Best feature so far in WoW's history.

And arguably this. Definitely room for improvement, but damn, a great system overall.

[A-sayo]

Good feature overall. My only issue is the scaling of some abilities at high level (Tyrannical) where your only solution is stacking immunities.

[Cathbadh]

A good feature with lots of replayability. The way it is set up makes it a lot more fun than challenge modes were.

I do think that scaling feels off sometimes. It is like bosses and mobs gain new abilities because you were able to completely ignore them on lower keys. I think the plans to move Tyrannical and Fortified to the earlier affix and have it scale will help with this. Players will have to know mechanics much earlier.

Part of me did resent M+ for most of the expansion though. M+ offers very high ilvl gear with very low time investment and a boatload of AP and other reward. As someone who prefers raiding to all other activities being "forced" to run a weekly max key dungeon was irritating. It felt like a chore rather than a fun activity. Rather than pushing keys on my main or doing 10 keys one week and none the week after, I had to focus on doing one max key per toon per week and then ensuring all of my raiders got keystones done as well.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

It’s quaint I guess.

[nodq]

Of course a good idea and a good thing in general. But the implementation was/is very lackluster to be honest. They should focus more on a rating system -in game- better/faster group search etc. the whole process of it currently just sucks. But mythic+ itself is cool, of course.

[Dormie]

I like the different levels and replayability but I don't like having to go against a timer. Time trials shouldn't be the normal dungeon mode IMO.

[Devilyaki]

Garbage systems for casual.

[Kokolums]

the system is ok. But the lack of ingame community makes it feel pointless and boring and if you get a cancerous pug that rants it makes you want to log off and never play again. Ive mostly avoided m+.

[Fathr]

the system is ok. But the lack of ingame community makes it feel pointless and boring and if you get a cancerous pug that rants it makes you want to log off and never play again. Ive mostly avoided m+.

This! I haven't done many, as the hassle and behaviour of anonymous people, is just teeth grinding, and I'm to old for youngsters and their go go go go #Retard #Omg #n00b mentality. I play wow to relax and enjoy myself, if I wanted a competition, I'd look elsewhere.

[Alkizon]

Lazy design
+/+/+/+/+/+/+/+/+/+/+/+
(timers' addition makes instances (passing) even more predictable/computable/demanding optimality hence boring/monotonous (repetitive in terms of pass/behavior, complete not just one fight, but "full-instance" rotation) and hurring/provoking toxicity and bad social consequences)
...so, now about my own opinion - it's regulated by next parameters (in general):

1) They're short and made specifically for timers (I hate timers in every game I played, that had them , some exceptions) - in fact it's degenerated system of challenges+scenarios which originally were a good design that also successfully supplemented "story telling" (much more correct implementation, in contrast to idiotic and open world destructive phasing).
Also imo: fast+short= repetitions => boring (maybe it's time for bring back 5-man-dungeon≈raid design?).

2) They don't have much of actual connection in logic with outside world (they aren't its harmonious continuation), but this is separate disease of all modern dungeons, so nothing new here.
By the way: all those debuffs from complexities and etc. don't have any logical reason to be so (why they appeared? in connection with what? with your mistakes? as the influence of one of secret bosses/mobs/traps-been-triggered inside the dungeon? - there is nothing there, they just exist! ...but logic is not one of them). More like PvE battlegrounds/challenges (= no logical justification for what is happening). But if it "challenges" it shouldn't have really useful loot. It should be done for pleasure, for achievement/competition, for checking yourself, cosmetic bonus, may be even for reputation, but not for competitive actual loot (and even more no! for backing -forge -RNG -scaling(class=spec/lvl) loot).

(those below are less relevant after SL, still here for not being forgotten)

3) They're "popular" only because of [availability]—(more stuff here), simplicity and speed of solving problem of obtaining resource/loot (which means that popular not because they been liked - people are forced to) - take it away of them and they'll be visited only by three and a half men (= fail)
This is equivalent of flying in open world: they're popular because of simplicity, speed, accessibility and ability to ignore part of game mechanics - if they'll be made slow, like movement on the ground, more dangerous, demanding attention, implement players' interactivity there (Oculus?), then their popularity will drop dramatically among "lazy players" (and of course they're very offended when this or that part of design is called "bad" ). And just like flights, it can't be ignored, since "not using" it will slow down your progress (well, or at least those scraps of it, that were left after scaling (stats/world) introduction) compared to others who do. And like looking-for-x system it'll take away your potential play-partners (they'll just get what you want to get, but they'll do it easier and faster, and since that they have no incentive to interact with you).

4) They're one of the biggest part of new design that worsen problem of basic parameters and stats inflation (this is main user of -forge&RNG&lootbox system).

Lazy design for MMO (closer to Diablo-like feature). There is nothing good in them for it.

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Conclusion: So, as you understand, I'm not totally against M+ as part of content, I'm against its implementation in this form: let it be like pets' battle, doesn't affect your real progression, just separate affair branch (synthetics should always remain and be provided/perceived/rated as synthetics), and everything will be fine with them. The fact remains: this innovation is absolutely not fit in original "useful/progressive" design of this game and can exist only as separate "non-essential" addition, for example as Brawler's Guild. And then we really will can estimate how popular this type of content is... but! apart from this I also need real content, real dungeons and sense of real progress and completeness, no one cancels the routine, but you can't take away these feelings and incentives from players.
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Case closed

You're moving from point A to point B in absolutely predictable way and with predictable difficulties to point where there could be writed "rotation/algorithm for a group of bots" (this still stays tactical isn't it? so maybe problem you trying to solve is hidden in different place?) to complete particular dungeon without using any "conditions" to change behavior. All this happens quickly and within entire passage... for good long dungeon - these are sections of path with absolutely static indicators (alternating temporary/permanent safe zones, linked by certain conditions/patrols/gurds/keys/triggers/hiden branches etc.), but for M+ (let's take worst and possible scenarios) this is whole dungeon: yes yes, you're driven by timer, you're driven by "random" affixes, place of deployment isn't someone's house/den/anthill, but generated absolutely straight corridor, during which nothing sensible happens (trash doesn't carry any semantic load, except to slow down player, there are no manifest elements of external world/connections/resources or internal presence of intelligence/interactivity within location; player shoudn't be distracted by anything, timer is running away, ratings is falling and the only useful thing is at the end of this dash; even changing gear at certain stage was forbidden, isn't it? why then don't just highlight needed buttons, like in "Guitar Hero", which devs have planned here to be pressed... oh boy! but this could be directly easily inserted by appropriate "spec" gameplay, or is this already happened?), everything is as rigidly scripted as possible (appearance of cut scenes uncontrollably and comically obsessive) and only significant event is "lootbox" at its end, which isn't clear where been received and how it got there ("moving textures" themselves, outside of cut scenes, are absolutely empty and soulless).

ps. good now this part can also be called considered.

[Kokolums]

This! I haven't done many, as the hassle and behaviour of anonymous people, is just teeth grinding, and I'm to old for youngsters and their go go go go #Retard #Omg #n00b mentality. I play wow to relax and enjoy myself, if I wanted a competition, I'd look elsewhere.

And it doesn't even feel like competition. If I clear a +23 in time, does anyone care? No. It doesn't mean anything.

If it was vanilla, and you had this massive community and you were in there helping each other, that's be pretty cool. But this? No.

[Minttunator]

It's an undoubtedly great feature overall which I personally don't enjoy.

I don't really like time constraints in any game + as a healer I feel that a lot of the affixes put more pressure on the healer than the other players.

[Deleted]

It's an undoubtedly great feature overall which I personally don't enjoy.

I don't really like time constraints in any game + as a healer I feel that a lot of the affixes put more pressure on the healer than the other players.

I think your 2nd point is M+ biggest weakness, especially in low-mid levels it feels like every affix is just tackled by healing/tanking more, fps seem to get off too lightly.

Even this week which has explosive doesn't punish dps directly enough for my liking and I just end up dealing with it myself because people rely on the healer to just heal through it. Out of 8 M+ I have done this week I have more than double damage against orbs than other players, one of those runs I had 3x what the other 4 had put together, 2 of them I was playing as the healer.

[Razecog]

not good enough to justify the removal of cms.

[Wyrt]

Speed running dungeons is boring.

Make them more challenging where you have to use CC and stuff. Not AoE spamfests and seeing how many packs your tank can handle at a time.

[Felixon]

A nice system for those,who like to PvE and want to keep up in the gearing race,yet they're unable to raid 2-3 times a week.Also,compliments the raid gearing process nicely. In BfA,with the tier items gone,I really am getting a feeling,that raiding will be superior gear wise only due to the trinkets.