Are raid boss fights too long?

[ro9ue]

IMO yes. I think 15min for a fight is absolutely ridiculous. On harder difficulties it just increases the chances of a fuck up, and on lower difficulties it just feels monotonous.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

No that’s like no time at all.

[Jastall]

The thing is, on lower difficulties the fights become short indeed once you gear up. We halved our times on our casual Heroics since release and we always have carries around.

15 minutes for an end tier/xpack fight is fine. They should be epic, grueling tests of endurance. I almost found Argus a bit too short on Mythic. All other fights in Antorus are, what, 7-8 minutes max on progression. That's very fine if you ask me.

The only fight I can say with certainty was stupidly long was Sha of Fear. 21-24 minutes, most of which in one monotonous phase taking place in the most boring location ever? Yikes.

[Moozart]

IMO yes. I think 15min for a fight is absolutely ridiculous. On harder difficulties it just increases the chances of a fuck up, and on lower difficulties it just feels monotonous.

15 minutes is easy mode sport. C'Thun fight was about 25 minutes on a clean kill.

[Usagi Senshi]

Yes which is one of the reasons I grew to hate raiding over the years. 5-10 minutes per fight should be the max. My hand starts going numb around the 7 minute mark. 10+ minute boss fights should stay in single player RPGs where time is easier to manage.

[xcitng]

I think 10 minutes is perfectly fine for an end boss, some get much higher from having stupid intermissions that really doesn't need to be there

[Azelas]

no.

15 mins or so is perfectly fine for an end boss. Most bosses are on the 5-7 min mark. It's fine to have one last epic boss fight, as long as the length of the fight isn't because of some shit intermission phase like KJ then I'm all in for long fights.

[MisterBigglez]

When was the last time a boss lasted 15 mins? Imperator mythic is the most recent that I can remember and even that was years ago.

[therealstegblob]

Okay so my way of looking at it is that a boss fight should last as long as it feels appropriate. If a boss fight lasts 15+ minutes then it should feel like that fight is appropriately long and that it isn't just dragging on. The Lich King, for instance, was a pretty long fight (could easily take more than 10 minutes even in a super quick kill and bad kills could probably have lasted 12-13 or more minutes) but it was a fight that was very well designed and it never felt too monotonous, there was always something you had to look out for and lot of 'rush against the clock' things.

Argus on the other hand is a god awful slog and such a boring, boring, tedious encounter. You didn't feel the minutes tick by when fighting the Lich King. You feel every second when you're killing Argus.

So it basically goes back into something the OP said in his first post. An easy fight feels too monotonous when it goes on to long. I know Argus, as the end boss of an expansion, is supposed to feel like a big encounter so Blizzard didn't want it to be too short and over too quickly, but the fight is too easy and isn't as edge-of-your-seat as other major last bosses have been. Thus, the fight feels slow and uninteresting and the minutes slog by.

[Deleted]

IMO yes. I think 15min for a fight is absolutely ridiculous. On harder difficulties it just increases the chances of a fuck up, and on lower difficulties it just feels monotonous.

You are absolutely correct. I did most of the mythic encounters and the most frustrating bosses are always those where you have like a final phase after 15min that is of course the hardest part, where you will wipe the most during progress.

One of several reasons why I stopped mythic raiding. This is just not a fun experience.

Personally, a boss should take 10min at the very max, with the averafe boss being more on a 5min timer.

[Jastall]

When was the last time a boss lasted 15 mins? Imperator mythic is the most recent that I can remember and even that was years ago.

Gul'dan Mythic on progression was fairly close to that. Now it is far shorter since you power through the adds on ph1, winds on ph2 and the visions on ph3 but it was one long ass fight.

[Veiled Shadow]

You are absolutely correct. I did most of the mythic encounters and the most frustrating bosses are always those where you have like a final phase after 15min that is of course the hardest part, where you will wipe the most during progress.

One of several reasons why I stopped mythic raiding. This is just not a fun experience.

Personally, a boss should take 10min at the very max, with the averafe boss being more on a 5min timer.

Uh, as another poster above said, ever since mythic raiding was called 'mythic' (i.e. after MoP) there's been exactly 1 boss that took more than 15 minutes on progression. KJ and Argus were like 10-12 minutes, not 15. I think Gul'dan was slightly longer than this (~13 minutes).

You didn't feel the minutes tick by when fighting the Lich King. You feel every second when you're killing Argus.

You definitely did on LK, especially after a year of it. Might just be me as I didn't enjoy the encounter very much.

[Hypasonic]

You are absolutely correct. I did most of the mythic encounters and the most frustrating bosses are always those where you have like a final phase after 15min that is of course the hardest part, where you will wipe the most during progress.

One of several reasons why I stopped mythic raiding. This is just not a fun experience.

Personally, a boss should take 10min at the very max, with the averafe boss being more on a 5min timer.

But then they'd have to change most CD's in the game if fights lasted only 5 mins. 8~ mins is about right for non-end bosses, final bosses should be 10-12 or so. But it all depends on the fight and mechanics, does the boss hide and then come back with more hp? Boring. Does the boss have some sort of immune phase which you handle other mechanics? Fine.

[Meanshield]

No. Some of them are too fast.

[Morbownz]

I think Blizzard attempt to create high's and low's. In order for an End Boss to have the feeling of prestige it would need to be very difficult fight for just a 5 mins kill timer. Longer Boss fights allow for degree's of difficulty creating moments where the raid panic or relax.

My experience in Legion was mainly in Mythic, but the HP in LFR was awful that was down to tuning not design... I think.

[callipygoustp]

15 mins for a boss fight seems reasonable. Personally, I hated shorter fights that didn't allow for multiple uses of my various abilities.

[alduron]

no.

15 mins or so is perfectly fine for an end boss. Most bosses are on the 5-7 min mark. It's fine to have one last epic boss fight, as long as the length of the fight isn't because of some shit intermission phase like KJ then I'm all in for long fights.

This pretty well sums up my feeling on it as well.

[MisterBigglez]

Gul'dan Mythic on progression was fairly close to that. Now it is far shorter since you power through the adds on ph1, winds on ph2 and the visions on ph3 but it was one long ass fight.

My first kill took about 11 mins *shrug*

[therealstegblob]

You definitely did on LK, especially after a year of it. Might just be me as I didn't enjoy the encounter very much.

Well it goes without saying that after awhile any fight will feel monotonous. But do you agree there's at least more to the Lich King fight than with Argus? Lich King had things like the Val'kyr dropping people off the citadel, people had to watch out for the snowballs, shadow traps, etc. Argus has mechanics too, but none of them feel nearly as pressuring as Lich King.

[Deleted]

Sha of Fear was a 23 minute fight.