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  1. #261
    Good suggestion.
    Mana is a redundant part of ret for way too long.
    Toggle button for derpsteed, probably hof as well.
    Feth, they could re-introduce auras as toggle thing aswell.

  2. #262
    Pit Lord Sigxy's Avatar
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    I have a question.

    Is there any other class in the game, with the Azerite bonus, who will have something like our "Gallant Steed"? A passive so that whenever we use Divine Steed, the paladin and all allies will gain movement speed for 5 seconds (and also reduces the cooldown on Divine Steed a bit).

    Because that could actually be kinda sorta useful in Mythic+ and PvP and might promote Retribution a -little- bit if they don't have anyone else with such a thing.

  3. #263
    They nuke our AoE and now with this last nerf (-17% dmg) they nuke our single target dmg.
    GG
    Edit: oh, and of course, NO MOBILITY updates
    Last edited by rubenmsalles; 2018-07-17 at 02:10 AM.
    Hammer of salt
    Taking away seals, utility blessings and auras is like taking away totems from shamans, or stealth from rogues

  4. #264
    Quote Originally Posted by rubenmsalles View Post
    They nuke our AoE and now with this last nerf (-17% dmg) they nuke our single target dmg.
    GG
    Edit: oh, and of course, NO MOBILITY updates
    You're purposely misrepresenting the hotfix. The overall modifier went down, but divine storm and templars verdict went way up. I imagine the overall damage change is minimal, it's just shifting.

  5. #265
    Field Marshal chikan's Avatar
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    why dont u compensate your mobility issues with engineering ?
    find a solution for yourself if blizzard keeps ignoring that part.

  6. #266
    Epic! marinos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rubenmsalles View Post
    They nuke our AoE and now with this last nerf (-17% dmg) they nuke our single target dmg.
    GG
    Edit: oh, and of course, NO MOBILITY updates
    If you had bothered to check on the discord you would have seen that this change is actually a buff and not a nerf.

  7. #267
    I think a 10% movement speed increase aura would be nice. They could call it "Zealotry Aura" or something. Divine Steed should cleanse roots/snares baseline, period. Ret already had this functionality with Emancipate and that was spammable.

  8. #268
    Palas still got better mobility than DKs for Raid Bosses and Mythic+ Bosses.

    Note that i specifically wrote Bosses so no one should mention Death Grip.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Stroggylos View Post
    Think it's because throughout legion rets needed extremely high uptime to perform decently (especially during wings) and the current mobility/gap closing would not allow this to happen both pvp and pve wise.
    And probs DKs got that utility called grip that is always usefull in every situation and few would mind them being slowpokes.
    How can you say Death Grip is useful in every situation? Have you ever seen someone grip Raid Boss? How does Death Grip help on most Raid Boss encounters?

    1) You can argue that Death Grip equal to mobility in PVP.

    2) Death Grip is NOT equal to mobility in PVE.

    3) Death Grip is NOT equal to mobility in PVE.

    4) Death Grip is NOT equal to mobility in PVE.

    5) Repeat number 2

  9. #269
    Ok Paladin complaints are just getting ridiculous, Ret nobility is just fine. There are as noble as they ever were and me and blizzard would appreciate it if you didn't diss their artwork. I know leaps are very majestic but you kids are just going to have to share, goddamnit..now if I have to come back in here it'll be lights off and no TV for a week. Yes warriors, you too

  10. #270
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    Palas still got better mobility than DKs for Raid Bosses and Mythic+ Bosses.

    Note that i specifically wrote Bosses so no one should mention Death Grip.

    - - - Updated - - -



    How can you say Death Grip is useful in every situation? Have you ever seen someone grip Raid Boss? How does Death Grip help on most Raid Boss encounters?

    1) You can argue that Death Grip equal to mobility in PVP.

    2) Death Grip is NOT equal to mobility in PVE.

    3) Death Grip is NOT equal to mobility in PVE.

    4) Death Grip is NOT equal to mobility in PVE.

    5) Repeat number 2
    No need jump up and down. Just saying that although the mobility is worse than the ret paladin one in plain numbers usually for the purposes of pve encounters it is about the same. And ofc grip is not mobility and can only serve as a situational gap closer.
    However although dks cannot grip bosses the utility of the grip is a nice one to have in a raid, m+ team since it can bring important targets in cleave range- away from areas - interrupt a spell w/e.
    Then again raid teams keeping a dps dk in combo during each tier progress whereas their attitude towards ret is " let's recruit one since we dont have any and will see what happens in melee roster" may be wrong but tbf this is what happens.

  11. #271
    Quote Originally Posted by Stroggylos View Post
    No need jump up and down. Just saying that although the mobility is worse than the ret paladin one in plain numbers usually for the purposes of pve encounters it is about the same. And ofc grip is not mobility and can only serve as a situational gap closer.
    However although dks cannot grip bosses the utility of the grip is a nice one to have in a raid, m+ team since it can bring important targets in cleave range- away from areas - interrupt a spell w/e.
    Then again raid teams keeping a dps dk in combo during each tier progress whereas their attitude towards ret is " let's recruit one since we dont have any and will see what happens in melee roster" may be wrong but tbf this is what happens.
    The problem with Ret in Mythic Raid rosters is also based on the fact that they only have one dps spec. So if that spec sucks in a specific patch they have no alternative. Of course that problem also exists with DHs, Monks and Priests. Windwalkers were not widely used in ToS for example.

    Death Grip is a great utility but it has noting to do with mobility in Raids. So it can't be used in that arguement. On Aggramar it is used to pull in the adds for example, but that doesn't replace any mobility aspects (maybe add mobility ).
    Last edited by Kaver; 2018-07-22 at 12:50 PM.

  12. #272
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post

    How can you say Death Grip is useful in every situation?
    Because I can specify that in PvP environment , Death Grip is miles and bounds more useful than any Ret mobility tool, of which there is a inarguable shortage of, in any situation you can possibly think of.

    Quote Originally Posted by patrik9321 View Post
    Ok Paladin complaints are just getting ridiculous, Ret nobility is just fine.
    No, it is not.
    Unless proven otherwise.
    Can you prove otherwise?

  13. #273
    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Tenth View Post
    Because I can specify that in PvP environment , Death Grip is miles and bounds more useful than any Ret mobility tool, of which there is a inarguable shortage of, in any situation you can possibly think of.
    So Death Grip is great in PvP. But in Raids Rets have better mobility than DKs. If you are far away from a Raid Boss, Moving between ungripable adds or you're trying to avoid difficult mechanics in Mythic Raids, then Rets have better mobility tools in those situations.

    99 % of the time you don't use Death Grip in Raids and when you do use it in Mythic+ it benefits the whole group and not just the DKs. Moving an Enemy out of Sanguine benefits the dps and succes of the whole group. And you can't grip yourself out of difficult situations with hard mechanics

    Death Grip is very useful for the whole group/raid but outside PVP it is not equal to mobility. And DKs lack mobility more than Rets.
    Last edited by Kaver; 2018-07-23 at 08:36 PM.

  14. #274
    Deleted
    Why does this discussion somehow always end up as a contest between who has it worse Dk's or Ret. Having a design problem isn't mutually exclusive is it?

    Maybe both specs need more? Just putting that out there.

    I think all melee need a certain amount simply to be able to effectively do their job in modern wow, mechanics in both pve and pvp assume you have certain tools that both currently lack.

  15. #275
    There should be low mobility classes and high mobility ones. It's just about balancing around the mobility of the class

  16. #276
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    So Death Grip is great in PvP
    It is an understatement.
    DG alone is better than all mobility tools that Ret has in pvp combined.
    That is the perspective you should see before taking in the fact that DKs have a lot else going on besides DG.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    But in Raids Rets have better mobility than DKs.
    Ever so slightly.
    Divine Steed is simply faster than DA/WW.
    From any other point Ret mobility is on par with that of DK, if you are willing to ignore the useful though arguably used trait of WW to ignore roots and snares.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    99 % of the time you don't use Death Grip in Raids and when you do use it in Mythic+ it benefits the whole group and not just the DKs. It doesn't really help DKs dps or Survivability. Moving an Enemy out of Sanguine benefits the movement and dps of the whole group.
    Which is why once again I will point out that besides raiding there is also pvp, where DK trump rets as far as mobility, snares and cc go.
    In PvP DG is quite often viewed as mobility or "antimobility" , by the way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    Death Grip is very useful but outside PVP it is not equal to mobility.
    Of course DG is not equal to mobility.
    Just as much as HoF and HoJ are not mobility, as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    And DKs lack mobility more than Rets.
    No.
    Your statement lack base.
    You are most welcome to try and provide one, of course.
    Though I will mention a 90% chance you will not bother due to inability to do so.

  17. #277
    Deleted
    I don't think ret needs excessive mobility. The PvP-talent Unbound Freedom should make Blessing of Freedom unspellstealable/undispellable, though.

  18. #278
    Quote Originally Posted by Sigxy the Lemming View Post
    I have a question.

    Is there any other class in the game, with the Azerite bonus, who will have something like our "Gallant Steed"? A passive so that whenever we use Divine Steed, the paladin and all allies will gain movement speed for 5 seconds (and also reduces the cooldown on Divine Steed a bit).

    Because that could actually be kinda sorta useful in Mythic+ and PvP and might promote Retribution a -little- bit if they don't have anyone else with such a thing.
    While not as much as Gallant Steed there's the outlaw PvP talent Boarding Party
    "Between the Eyes increases the movement speed of all friendly players within 10 yards by 30% for 5 sec." Between the Eyes has a 30 sec CD that can easily be brought down because of the spec's mechanics.

    There's also always druid roar, aspect of the pack, wind rush totem
    Last edited by Ragnarohk; 2018-07-23 at 08:51 PM.

  19. #279
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    So Death Grip is great in PvP
    It is an understatement.
    DG alone is better than all mobility tools that Ret has in pvp combined.
    That is the perspective you should see before taking in the fact that DKs have a lot else going on besides DG.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    But in Raids Rets have better mobility than DKs.
    Ever so slightly.
    Divine Steed is simply faster than DA/WW.
    From any other point Ret mobility is on par with that of DK, if you are willing to ignore the useful though arguably used trait of WW to ignore roots and snares.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    99 % of the time you don't use Death Grip in Raids and when you do use it in Mythic+ it benefits the whole group and not just the DKs. It doesn't really help DKs dps or Survivability. Moving an Enemy out of Sanguine benefits the movement and dps of the whole group.
    Which is why once again I will point out that besides raiding there is also pvp, where DK trump rets as far as mobility, snares and cc go.
    In PvP DG is quite often viewed as mobility or "antimobility" , by the way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    Death Grip is very useful but outside PVP it is not equal to mobility.
    Of course DG is not equal to mobility.
    Just as much as HoF and HoJ are not mobility, as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    And DKs lack mobility more than Rets.
    No.
    Your statement lack base.
    You are most welcome to try and provide one, of course.
    Though I will mention a 90% chance you will not bother due to inability to do so.

  20. #280
    Quote Originally Posted by Lyons View Post
    Why does this discussion somehow always end up as a contest between who has it worse Dk's or Ret. Having a design problem isn't mutually exclusive is it?

    Maybe both specs need more? Just putting that out there.

    I think all melee need a certain amount simply to be able to effectively do their job in modern wow, mechanics in both pve and pvp assume you have certain tools that both currently lack.
    To make sure DKs are first in line if Blizzard decide to "fix" the low mobility

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