Thread: The Boys

  1. #1161
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    are you a bot? i specificaly said,yes affirmitive consent,but thinking otherwise,that has no legal basis and trying to compare it to actual physical threats is seriously making me question your mental sanity
    See the entire section about "a person cannot say they mistakenly believed a person was consenting if" section above.

    Them saying they consent is not sufficient. That consent needs to be freely given. Which you've explicitly argued against being a requirement. Which is false. Acting as you're arguing would lead to you rightly being convicted of rape. Because what you're describing is rape.


  2. #1162
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    See the entire section about "a person cannot say they mistakenly believed a person was consenting if" section above.

    Them saying they consent is not sufficient. That consent needs to be freely given. Which you've explicitly argued against being a requirement. Which is false. Acting as you're arguing would lead to you rightly being convicted of rape. Because what you're describing is rape.
    great,i guess im a rampant mass rapist,because MAYBE....secretly...my gf or exes were thinking no when saying and showing yes,gosh...good thing my gramps eint alive no moe to see what i have become

    i better go turn myself in

  3. #1163
    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    I remember ''bullying'' girls in grade school,it actualy got me pretty lucky with the ladies
    Yikes.

    And you just, like, go around announcing this proudly. What a surprise.

  4. #1164
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    See the entire section about "a person cannot say they mistakenly believed a person was consenting if" section above.

    Them saying they consent is not sufficient. That consent needs to be freely given. Which you've explicitly argued against being a requirement. Which is false. Acting as you're arguing would lead to you rightly being convicted of rape. Because what you're describing is rape.
    you are missing his dumb point. he is making a magical scenario where person 1 is sitting at a bar, person 2 comes and sits next to them, person 1 says "wanna go have sex?", person 2 says yes, but in their had doesnt want to. they show this outwardly in no way what so ever.

    in his weird make believe scenario nothing else took place and person 2 said yes for some unknown reason and proceeds to have sex even though in their head, they are thinking i don't wanna have sex. its a dumb scenario but if it ever did happen, and we have some sort of clairvoyant technology to show person 1 did nothing other then ask "wanna have sex", they would not be found to be a rapist.

  5. #1165
    The Lightbringer Nymrohd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonnysensible View Post
    anime avatar
    Not just anime, some psychopath yandere girl as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Oblivion View Post
    you are missing his dumb point. he is making a magical scenario where person 1 is sitting at a bar, person 2 comes and sits next to them, person 1 says "wanna go have sex?", person 2 says yes, but in their had doesnt want to. they show this outwardly in no way what so ever.

    in his weird make believe scenario nothing else took place and person 2 said yes for some unknown reason and proceeds to have sex even though in their head, they are thinking i don't wanna have sex. its a dumb scenario but if it ever did happen, and we have some sort of clairvoyant technology to show person 1 did nothing other then ask "wanna have sex", they would not be found to be a rapist.
    There is really no reason to consider his dumb point cause it's fucking dumb though.

  6. #1166
    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    Yikes.

    And you just, like, go around announcing this proudly. What a surprise.
    I mean i was like 10 or 12,pulling girls hair,smacking their butt,but yeah...that literaly made me popular at that age

    some of those girls were pretty wild,then in highschool my luck whent out the window,i whent to a school where all the girls acted all reserved like saints

  7. #1167
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Not just anime, some psychopath yandere girl as well.

    - - - Updated - - -



    There is really no reason to consider his dumb point cause it's fucking dumb though.
    yep, lol just trying to stop the pointless back and forth. his point is dumb and arguing it is dumb, because in his impossible scenario he is right so he will keep arguing the semantics.

  8. #1168
    The Lightbringer Nymrohd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Oblivion View Post
    yep, lol just trying to stop the pointless back and forth. his point is dumb and arguing it is dumb, because in his impossible scenario he is right so he will keep arguing the semantics.
    Oh honey, is this your first time on the internet? You ain't stopping it

  9. #1169
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Not just anime, some psychopath yandere girl as well.
    how dare you slander her good name sir...how dare you

  10. #1170
    The Lightbringer Nymrohd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    how dare you slander her good name sir...how dare you
    Her good name???

  11. #1171
    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    Someone having sex with you because they fear you is rape by coercion. Period.
    This is a really oddly broad definition, though.

    Obviously there's room for laws regarding coercion and abuse of power, but simply saying, "Well the other party took no action, made no threats, and was not in a position of power or authority over me, but I just felt in my mind that I had to consent." is pretty shaky ground.

  12. #1172
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost of Cow View Post
    This is a really oddly broad definition, though.

    Obviously there's room for laws regarding coercion and abuse of power, but simply saying, "Well the other party took no action, made no threats, and was not in a position of power or authority over me, but I just felt in my mind that I had to consent." is pretty shaky ground.
    You could argue that in court. It might work, because our legal system tends to favor men over women, but it's not the law.

  13. #1173
    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    You could argue that in court. It might work, because our legal system tends to favor men over women, but it's not the law.
    Big yikes on the favoring comment.

    But is that really your argument? That if someone makes no threats, takes no hostile action, and is not in a position of power or authority over another party - and that party in sound mind consents - that other party can simply say, "Well, but I still really didn't want to." and that would be enough for you to convict?

  14. #1174
    Epic!
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    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    I am telling you, as a lawyer of 13 years, that it does indeed having a legal basis. Consent which isn't freely given is literally the definition of coercion. In situations with wildly differing levels of power and authority (like a cop with a stranger they d on't know, or fucking HOMELANDER), a clear, affirmative consent is required, which can be revoked at any point in the encounter. Consent is an affirmative requirement, not a passive or assumed one. Furthermore, there's not even an indication that Becca gave affirmative, verbal consent, just that she went into Homelander's office seemingly of her own volition....which is not consent for sex. That should be blatantly obvious.

    When you then consider the fact that 1) SHE SAID HE RAPED HER, 2) she immediately had a meltdown and went to an "authority" that could help her deal with the rape and escape Homelander, 3) she's still terrified of Homelander years later, and 4) Homelander is a known psychopath....well, if it quacks like a duck, it's a fucking duck.
    Just for your first point, A friend of mine was accused of rape, thankfully he had an alibi and it was dropped. However, she did rape him. By having had evidence in the case of a recording of him saying no, the police still did not proceed.

    People like this, sadly, make your first point moot.

    Also, you can be a 13 year experienced lawyer and still be a shitty lawyer. Experience doesn’t equal quality.

  15. #1175
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost of Cow View Post
    Big yikes on the favoring comment.

    But is that really your argument? That if someone makes no threats, takes no hostile action, and is not in a position of power or authority over another party - and that party in sound mind consents - that other party can simply say, "Well, but I still really didn't want to." and that would be enough for you to convict?
    Like I cited above, under Canadian law, the onus is on the person initiating to verify there is open and freely-given consent. If you recklessly or willfully ignore the context of a "yes" and how it may be coerced, that's rape. Implicit threats, for instance, are dead simple, and could be as basic as you being a big guy, in a bar/party with a lot of friends, and the girl you single out is alone and feeling scared. Yeah, you're supposed to figure out she's uncomfortable and not abuse the situation.


  16. #1176
    Quote Originally Posted by Soikona View Post
    Just for your first point, A friend of mine was accused of rape, thankfully he had an alibi and it was dropped. However, she did rape him. By having had evidence in the case of a recording of him saying no, the police still did not proceed.

    People like this, sadly, make your first point moot.

    Also, you can be a 13 year experienced lawyer and still be a shitty lawyer. Experience doesn’t equal quality.
    False reports of rape make up less than 5% of rape reports, and legitimate rape is already severely underreported. This isn't a problem that warrants making points "moot."

    It is, however, a point that rape apologists make.

    FWIW, I was a criminal defense lawyer. I have defended people who've been charged with sexual assault, and I never came across a case in my 5 years in that job as a public defender where the defendant couldn't have known consent wasn't given.

  17. #1177
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Like I cited above, under Canadian law, the onus is on the person initiating to verify there is open and freely-given consent. If you recklessly or willfully ignore the context of a "yes" and how it may be coerced, that's rape. Implicit threats, for instance, are dead simple, and could be as basic as you being a big guy, in a bar/party with a lot of friends, and the girl you single out is alone and feeling scared. Yeah, you're supposed to figure out she's uncomfortable and not abuse the situation.
    Yeah, but that's...REALLY fucking shaky legal ground.

    I'm sorry, but there's no way if I'm on a jury I'm voting to convict someone of rape if they didn't threaten someone, didn't attack them, wasn't in a position of any power or authority, behaved normally, got an affirmative consent, and then later gets hauled into jail because, "I was secretly scared, officer."

    Edit: And yes, I fully agree that there needs to be protections in place for all the various situations where someone might consent but reasonably feels forced or coerced. I just don't think the threshold for that can be something like, "He was just so tall."

    At some point that simply becomes the individual making a bad decision and regretting it. Every single sexual encounter that a woman feels was a mistake or undesirable in the morning isn't a rape.

    (And at some point there needs to be a discussion about the intersection of this concept and the infantilization of women and removal of agency, but I guess we're already beyond the scope of this thread.)
    Last edited by Ghost of Cow; 2022-08-18 at 03:20 PM.

  18. #1178
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost of Cow View Post
    Yeah, but that's...REALLY fucking shaky legal ground.
    That's a matter for the courts and the standard of beyond a reasonable doubt.

    But at that point, we're discussing whether you can escape conviction for the rape you literally committed, not whether you raped someone in the first place. That's a different question.

    (And at some point there needs to be a discussion about the intersection of this concept and the infantilization of women and removal of agency, but I guess we're already beyond the scope of this thread.)
    This shit isn't gendered, and you trying to do so says way more about your consideration of women than the law's.


  19. #1179
    Nevermind. I forgot who I was talking to.

    You dodged the topic and went right into the labels as usual, so we're done here.

  20. #1180
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost of Cow View Post
    What? So your assertion is that any given defendant did, in fact, rape someone regardless of the legal findings?

    I mean, you'll say no, but that's literally what you just said. Because this is always what you do. Lead with something insane and then backpedal.
    It's literally not what I said. I described the law in Canada, you said "that's really shaky legal ground", and I presumed what you meant was "shaky" was the difficulty in establishing how reckless or willfully you disregarded whether your partner was consenting. And as I said, that difficulty is a matter for the courts and the legal standards of evidence. It's entirely possible you might have recklessly ignored her feelings and pushed her into sex, but they can't prove that beyond a reasonable doubt. And my point was that this situation is a rapist getting away with their crime, not the courts clearing your name and approving your actions.

    I really don't think I was unclear.

    It absolutely is, but nice try on the labels already.
    Feel free to go over the law and point out to me where consent is only a matter for girls, then.

    I need specific citations. Because no, none of this shit is gendered. And you know it.

    I don't know why I even try engaging in any thread where you post, it's a one-way ticket to being accused of something within 3 posts.
    Tons of people engage with me in threads and don't get things pulled out of their posts that demonstrate problematic viewpoints. Maybe take a little personal responsibility for the things you said, rather than blaming me for noticing them.


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