Thread: Any 120 BrMs?

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  1. #1
    Elemental Lord Saverem's Avatar
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    Any 120 BrMs?

    Been playing with my 111 BrM, but too lazy to actually level him to 120. So far, the BrM seems to be THE WEAKEST tank that I've tried on beta. I played VDH, BDK, and Prot War as well.

    BrM just feels bad right now, I take more damage and have less self healing. Does this garbage tank get better at 120 with better gear? I also severely miss my 50% snare 20 yard range Keg Smash. 20% snare is barely even noticeable, can't kite for shit.
    "It's not what we don't know that gets us into trouble; it's what we know for sure that just ain't so." ~ Mark Twain
    "The time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time" ~ Jesus of Nazareth
    "把它放在我的屁股,爸爸" ~ Dalai Lama

  2. #2
    Seems like you have no idea how the BrM works....

    Yes you take more DMG than others and your healer has to continuously heal you but that for you can smooth the shit out of pulls. Sounds more like you need to get to know the spec in order to play it right.

    If done, the BrM feels as it always feels: pretty solid. not more not less

  3. #3
    Elemental Lord Saverem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swatsonqt View Post
    Seems like you have no idea how the BrM works....

    Yes you take more DMG than others and your healer has to continuously heal you but that for you can smooth the shit out of pulls. Sounds more like you need to get to know the spec in order to play it right.

    If done, the BrM feels as it always feels: pretty solid. not more not less
    Nice try kid, but I've been playing BrM since before you were born. I know exactly how they work. They feel much weaker than the other tanks at low level and I wanted to know if the trend continues at 120.
    "It's not what we don't know that gets us into trouble; it's what we know for sure that just ain't so." ~ Mark Twain
    "The time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time" ~ Jesus of Nazareth
    "把它放在我的屁股,爸爸" ~ Dalai Lama

  4. #4
    Bloodsail Admiral keqe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saverem View Post
    Nice try kid, but I've been playing BrM since before you were born. I know exactly how they work. They feel much weaker than the other tanks at low level and I wanted to know if the trend continues at 120.
    If you knew exactly how they worked you'd know this is just repeating of legion history since the spec is basically identical and the problem is quite identical. So you do know the answer in that case.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gestopft View Post
    For everything else, there's Brewmastercard

  5. #5
    The Clash of the E-penis!

    Maybe keep it a bit more constructive? I was wondering the same thing too, what are people's experience at 120? It seems we lost quite a lot. I'm still hoping for some more attention. The whole stagger mechanic feels boring to me but I enjoy the other specs a lot and the other hybrids aren't my cup of tea (pun intended).

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Saverem View Post
    Been playing with my 111 BrM, but too lazy to actually level him to 120. So far, the BrM seems to be THE WEAKEST tank that I've tried on beta. I played VDH, BDK, and Prot War as well.

    BrM just feels bad right now, I take more damage and have less self healing. Does this garbage tank get better at 120 with better gear? I also severely miss my 50% snare 20 yard range Keg Smash. 20% snare is barely even noticeable, can't kite for shit.
    trellbrew was streaming 120 dungeons for the last week or so on twitch. sweep and ring are strong. kiting is likely to be an issue in general.

  7. #7
    Man this thread went nowhere quick... but to answer the OP: Personally I can only speak for the 2 tanks I have, Vengeance and Brewmaster BUT before that you need to understand lvl 111=/=120 and if you can't bring yourself to lvl to 120, it may not be the spec you want to level in BFA, i'm not trying to be an asshole, I personally had to realize this with other classes with past expansion, knowing you have to put a class aside is important to enjoying your time playing this game. that being said I am enjoying both Vengeance and Brewmaster's feel of gameplay, personally for me the Numbers are there but Blizzard is also not at the "fine balancing" phase of Beta yet (personally I think this Beta needs at least 1-2 more months of work but that's a different topic) nor am I pushing anything in Beta.

    I am, however, simply enjoying Vengeance more than Brewmaster but I think that's mostly because Vengeance feels much more fresh than Brewmaster(Considering I was Brewmaster main all Legion) and losing so much from artifacts does effect the "fun" of playing a Brewmaster negatively. however I can't say it's a "crap" spec, it's a really solid spec and fun to play and the style of play I want is still there it'll just take time to adjust to the new changes...

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Saverem View Post
    Nice try kid, but I've been playing BrM since before you were born. I know exactly how they work. They feel much weaker than the other tanks at low level and I wanted to know if the trend continues at 120.
    What's your armory? I'd like to check out how extensive your knowledge is.

    On topic, since you're new to World of Warcraft, I hate to be the one to finally tell you this, but: you get weaker as you level. Regardless of the spec/class, everyone gets substantially weaker as they level up, especially from the previous max to the next level (100 to 101, for example).

    Also, every single available tank feels infinitely better than brewmaster because they are. Brewmaster has nothing to influence a fight's outcome other than standing there and taking hits. No grip, no silence, no heals, no raid cd's, no offensive dispels, no ability to heal others, nothing. If being a baby-sat sponge is your goal, brewmaster is that means.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Saverem View Post
    BrM just feels bad right now, I take more damage and have less self healing. Does this garbage tank get better at 120 with better gear? I also severely miss my 50% snare 20 yard range Keg Smash. 20% snare is barely even noticeable, can't kite for shit.
    The snare is whatever. Losing a passive 30% movement speed is the true loss.

  9. #9
    new brewmaster changes seem promising:

    arious things to expect next build:

    New talent: Guard (replacing Elusive Dance on L100). "Guard against future attacks, causing the next X damage you Stagger to instead be prevented." 30s cooldown.
    (The Guard Honor Talent will be renamed).

    New talent: Spitfire (replacing Gift of the Mists on L45). "Tiger Palm has a 25% chance to reset the cooldown of Breath of Fire."

    Part of the value of Black Ox Brew is being moved baseline, by lengthening its cooldown to 2 minutes, and speeding up the baseline recharge time of Brews. This should help the row be more competitive, without losing total Brew charges.

    Ironskin Brew's duration will come up to 7, also freeing up more Brew charges.

    Blackout Combo no longer buffs Purifying Brew. This usage wound up mostly being a trap, and 4 modes still a good amount of choice for the talent.

    Gift of the Ox healing increased about 30%. We expect the overall spawn rate to be lower than Legion, and this helps make up for that.

    Balancing is still preliminary, but a few tweaks on that front:
    HP reduced for Brewmaster by around 10%. Brewmaster's heavy resistance to killing spikes means they're not a tank that needs as high an HP pool. This does have the side effect of making Ox orbs spawn slightly more often.
    Stagger's effectiveness against Magic brought back up to 35%.

  10. #10
    Level as windwalker, I swear in Legion I levelled every tank as tank except monk, without artifact traits it was exactly how you describe it. Since you won't have the 35% hp orb cheese, yeah, prepare for pain. Tanks aren't balanced around solo, why do you think dks and then dhs were tanks of choice for the "solo this" challenges, some are just that much better than others.

  11. #11
    Elemental Lord Saverem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcc626 View Post
    new brewmaster changes seem promising:

    arious things to expect next build:

    New talent: Guard (replacing Elusive Dance on L100). "Guard against future attacks, causing the next X damage you Stagger to instead be prevented." 30s cooldown.
    (The Guard Honor Talent will be renamed).

    New talent: Spitfire (replacing Gift of the Mists on L45). "Tiger Palm has a 25% chance to reset the cooldown of Breath of Fire."

    Part of the value of Black Ox Brew is being moved baseline, by lengthening its cooldown to 2 minutes, and speeding up the baseline recharge time of Brews. This should help the row be more competitive, without losing total Brew charges.

    Ironskin Brew's duration will come up to 7, also freeing up more Brew charges.

    Blackout Combo no longer buffs Purifying Brew. This usage wound up mostly being a trap, and 4 modes still a good amount of choice for the talent.

    Gift of the Ox healing increased about 30%. We expect the overall spawn rate to be lower than Legion, and this helps make up for that.

    Balancing is still preliminary, but a few tweaks on that front:
    HP reduced for Brewmaster by around 10%. Brewmaster's heavy resistance to killing spikes means they're not a tank that needs as high an HP pool. This does have the side effect of making Ox orbs spawn slightly more often.
    Stagger's effectiveness against Magic brought back up to 35%.
    Where did you see this? Those are great changes.

    Edit: NM I found it. Great changes.
    "It's not what we don't know that gets us into trouble; it's what we know for sure that just ain't so." ~ Mark Twain
    "The time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time" ~ Jesus of Nazareth
    "把它放在我的屁股,爸爸" ~ Dalai Lama

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Marrilaife View Post
    Level as windwalker, I swear in Legion I levelled every tank as tank except monk, without artifact traits it was exactly how you describe it. Since you won't have the 35% hp orb cheese, yeah, prepare for pain. Tanks aren't balanced around solo, why do you think dks and then dhs were tanks of choice for the "solo this" challenges, some are just that much better than others.
    Except in WoD when the spec was a million times more interesting



    I miss old BrM :<

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by reathe View Post
    Except in WoD when the spec was a million times more interesting

    I miss old BrM :<
    Who doesn't miss these humongous guard absorbs? Serenity + purify cheese? Having both statue and leg sweep? (That one is coming back with baseline leg sweep I hope?)

    I miss clash and chi explosion, and old expel harm than gave chi, but yeah, guard was just so strong, monks could sustain themselves through stuff no other tank could (solo tanking Malkorok in MOP?).

    But alas, in Legion DH became the king of solo tanks it seems with all the solo m+ as a veng DH videos.

    Still doesn't change the fact that levelling a Brewmaster in Legion wasn't exactly a great experience, damage felt low and sustain wasn't there. Yet from Trial of Valor to mythic Argus, monk tanks were used with great success, so poor levelling experience doesn't have to translate into poor max level viability at all.

    P.S. Kazzak was also solod by a DK / Pala tanks and a boomkin apparently while still current. But yeah, HFC brewmaster set bonus meant you could spam so many guards it really felt like kick in the nuts when Legion completely deleted guard (only kept it as some pvp talent).
    Last edited by Marrilaife; 2018-06-11 at 10:17 PM.

  14. #14
    BrM was never really good for leveling and it didn't felt right either. It was like that in MoP, WoD, Legion and it's the same in BfA.
    This is mostly related to how Stagger works and also because BrM have weak selfhealing compared to other tanks.

    Still, they were always a very strong option for endgame content (in my opinion the best tanks excluding those times were some tanks were obviously too OP, like blood dks in dungeons atm) and will definitely remain that.

  15. #15
    Calm down everyone. Today was the day the BrM overhaul was patched. Let's test it and see if it feels good.

    We have guard back now and healing orbs got buffed and together with healing elixier it looks awesome.

    BrM always had the problem it scaled better with equip than the other tanks and still if we had awesome equip we got more damage then the other tanks because that's how stagger works.
    But now with the new guard I can see us being really awesome tanks! It consumes a ton of staggered damage every 30 seconds for 15 seconds. Also there is azerite traits that gives us healing while Iron Skin is active.

    And for the ones that love pvp, I can see us now as one of the best FCs!
    Paralysis, Ring of Piece, Healing Elixier, chi torpedo and Guard make us awesome tanks to carry a flag!

    So at least the problem of 'low dungeons' should be gone ( I mean the problem that we still got a lot of damage in dungeons we already had outequipped, while other tanks just heal more than getting damage at this point )
    Last edited by Inukashi; 2018-06-13 at 08:43 AM.
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  16. #16
    Elemental Lord Saverem's Avatar
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    Reeeaaaaallly digging these recent BrM changes (most importantly, Guard).

    I tried Spitfire for a bit and it was alright, still not as good as the nerfed BoB though. I really think they should just make Spitfire baseline to give the rotation a bit of randomness. Pretty much every other tank has a random proc element (Avenger's Shield, Shield Slam, DnD, etc all have a proc element) and BrMs could do with one too.


    I couldn't really notice a difference of the buffed Ox orbs. They still heal for meh. At 110, Vivify heals for a good chunk though, getting 12k crits.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Inukashi View Post
    And for the ones that love pvp, I can see us now as one of the best FCs!
    Paralysis, Ring of Piece, Healing Elixier, chi torpedo and Guard make us awesome tanks to carry a flag!
    It's definitely better than before, but I'd still say Veng is the undisputed kings of FC. They still have Demonic Trample, crazy far leaps, self magic/root/snare dispels, AoE ranged silence and fear, and Imprison.
    Last edited by Saverem; 2018-06-13 at 07:05 PM.
    "It's not what we don't know that gets us into trouble; it's what we know for sure that just ain't so." ~ Mark Twain
    "The time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time" ~ Jesus of Nazareth
    "把它放在我的屁股,爸爸" ~ Dalai Lama

  17. #17
    Guard is pretty meh at current numbers, definitely not game changing and at current values not even sure it will be used at all. The nerfed duration from old guard at half value makes it pretty useless even for low damage situations.
    Last edited by Tech614; 2018-06-14 at 06:14 AM.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    Guard is pretty meh at current numbers, definitely not game changing and at current values not even sure it will be used at all. The nerfed duration from old guard at half value makes it pretty useless even for low damage situations.
    at least it exists. numbers tuning can still happen. its somewhere around 30% of your health total now i believe, where do you think it needs to be to be competitive?

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by dcc626 View Post
    at least it exists. numbers tuning can still happen. its somewhere around 30% of your health total now i believe, where do you think it needs to be to be competitive?
    The problem is it only scales with AP, which means the higher your gear gets it's going to be a lower % of your health as time go's on. If it actually scaled with your health it would be a lot better, that's far more important then actual numbers right now IMO. Numbers wise it's so far below current Soul Barrier(which scales with both AP and Health to boot so will scale better as xpac go's on) in the same talent row and only absorbs what you can stagger where as Soul Barrier is a straight up absorb period. That's pretty bad IMO.
    Last edited by Tech614; 2018-06-14 at 12:57 PM.

  20. #20
    Elemental Lord Saverem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcc626 View Post
    at least it exists. numbers tuning can still happen. its somewhere around 30% of your health total now i believe, where do you think it needs to be to be competitive?
    It's actually worse than that at 120. Some guy who had M+/raiding gear reported it being around 30k for him, which was around 19% of his total HP. So apparently it doesn't scale so good at its current iteration.

    It's no where near as good as HT in terms of mitigation. Hopefully it gets changed.

    They should also switch its place with Bob and Weave. I Feel Bob and Weave is the passive mitigation buff in the style of the other 2 100 talents and Guard is the active mitigation like the other 2 level 75 talents. I'd give Bob and Weave a DPS component to be in line with the other 2 and then switch it with Guard.
    Last edited by Saverem; 2018-06-14 at 09:29 PM.
    "It's not what we don't know that gets us into trouble; it's what we know for sure that just ain't so." ~ Mark Twain
    "The time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time" ~ Jesus of Nazareth
    "把它放在我的屁股,爸爸" ~ Dalai Lama

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