Warcraftlogs ilvl% over overall% which one is better?

[Duridi]

I review myself based on ilvl. If I go by overall, I am gonna get a whole lot of people up against me that are way ahead of me on gear, and that will give me no indication whether I am on the right track or not.

I am talking dps ranking btw.

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And like a previous poster said, there are few skilled players playing in low ilvl brackets as well. Ilvl percentile just loses it's value the longer the tier goes on for.

That's assuming no skilled players stay below mythic raiding, which is not true. You will however have a better pool of players to compete against on mythic content.

Personally I don't use the ranks as an indication of how good I am, I use them as a indication of being on the right track or not. My higherst dps character is 940, and I've been parsing really well on her by ilvl since ilvl 915(several orange parses, and 2-3 100% ones). Curious as to what was going on here, we looked a bit more into it, because I actually didn't understand what I was doing right. I am still not sure how I do it, but the spec flows really well with me. I am not gonna be able to go much up in ilvl on her sadly, but I ejoyed following my ilvl based parses through ilvl increases.

However, going on to another alt I parsed blue quality logs, and going by that I need to check up how to improve that. Had the same with an alt before that too, the ilvl ranking told me "something's off. Locate and fix".

So yeah, even at normal/heroic level those rankings are a good indicator. Doesn't mean you are the best player in the world, but it tells you which direction you are heading.

[Petden91]

I would also sim the people you are trying to recruit. For example my mage alt doesn't parse that well. Usually in the 75-85 for ilevel (940). A lot of this is due to very poorly optimized gear. His Sim DPS is 1.09mil and I usually do 1.07 - 1.12 depending on rng.

When I played with the Sim and changed some of his stats and legendaries to be more optimized, without changing ilevel, I went to 1.38mil Sim which is what would get to 100% in an ilevel parse.

What I'm getting at is if you want to be a great recruiter and team lead you need to be understanding and look at all the data available and not just a single number.

As others have mentioned sometimes people try and cheese fights especially later in the tier. Look at people's logs when they first kill a boss, that gives you a better indication of how they perform and how well they are able to deal with new mechanics

[exochaft]

When your ilvl is low for the content, ilvl% matters much more. Once your ilvl is high for the content, overall begins to matter since ilvl% can be biased based on specific gearing and BiS discrepancies. However, both fall victim to what your role is for a fight (you may be on ST duty instead of adds duty, and your rank will be much lower), which other classes and skilled players you're competing with in your own raid, how long the fight lasts with your group, and pure RNG.

[Duridi]

I would also sim the people you are trying to recruit. For example my mage alt doesn't parse that well. Usually in the 75-85 for ilevel (940). A lot of this is due to very poorly optimized gear. His Sim DPS is 1.09mil and I usually do 1.07 - 1.12 depending on rng.

...and this yes. This is part of the reason why I think my main alt parses as well as it does. Her gear setup. I think I've had some pretty decent luck with that. I've also simmed mine some months ago, but haven't bothered for a while.

[McFuu]

Low ilvl brackets means little the further your boss progression goes. Such as the ilvl bracket for a 940 toon on heroic argus will be distorted with carry/ boost runs and actually trying would guarantee you an okay ilvl parse even if you didn't do very good performance wise.

Another example is that 950 is more than enough to kill mythic garothi however the amount of 950 players currently killing mythic garothi is almost completely consisted of boosting runs or parses from 6+ months ago so again, ilvl percentile doesn't mean much here as it doesn't really tell you anything.

And like a previous poster said, there are few skilled players playing in low ilvl brackets as well. Ilvl percentile just loses it's value the longer the tier goes on for.

All of this applies to Overall as well though.
Also saying the logs are getting diluted might not be as big of an issue, yes they're are carrys in there, although I would think that no one would log a carry run. But there are still people running that raid. So the parses are going up with carrys and proper runs. Still a 70% and higher player is going to be generally good, where 40% and lower have work to do. Or are just carrys

[Nnyco]

ilvl usually has not many logs not to mention its easily cheeseable

[Tojara]

Both matter, but overall matters more.

You can be in a higher iLvL bracket and perform worse than those in a lower bracket simply because they have better gear than you. iLvL is way too narrow and doesn't take into account the difference between having high ilvL cape/bracers/belt, compared to chest/helm/legs (which have far more itemization). Relics and trinkets also throw this into disarray as well, especially for classes that scale incredibly well with traits. Arcano for instance can put you in what, 1-2 iLvL brackets lower simply because it's incredibly hard to get a decent one, yet it's still stronger than many alternatives.

I think iLvL brackets are a decent metric though, but only a baseline. If you have a fresh character that's mostly heroic geared and you're competing really well in your iLvL bracket, it will also show in the overall. If for instance you're performing in the mid to high orange percentiles in iLvL, it's pretty likely that you're gonna show up in mid to high purples in the overall, which means for the most part you're actually playing the class well, you just need better gear.

There are always very small things that differentiate good players from great ones. Keep in mind however that how good your guild is, kill times and what your guild allows you to to do are giant factors in getting the best logs possible. In some cases, having really bad guilds with horrid kill times can sometimes get you really good logs (this usually isn't the case though, but will sometimes pop up, especially on AoE fights). Normally you want a fast kill that lands shortly after a major CD is just ending, and pray for favorable procs/crits. You won't beat organized guilds who adhere and set it up so only a couple people can AoE on certain fights.

[Deleted]

All of this applies to Overall as well though.
Also saying the logs are getting diluted might not be as big of an issue, yes they're are carrys in there, although I would think that no one would log a carry run. But there are still people running that raid. So the parses are going up with carrys and proper runs. Still a 70% and higher player is going to be generally good, where 40% and lower have work to do. Or are just carrys

The problem is comparing yourself only to inactive players/ low skilled players and doesn't exactly help in any way unless your goal is to feel good about competing highly in a bracket no one competes in, I guarantee any of the lower ilvl parses who are active are playing poorly. This is especially true with low ilvl brackets (sub 950ish).

Getting high percentiles in super low ilvl brackets 7 months into a tier doesn't hold any weight and is not indication that you're playing your spec even remotely close to it's full potential.

[McFuu]

The problem is comparing yourself only to inactive players/ low skilled players and doesn't exactly help in any way unless your goal is to feel good about competing highly in a bracket no one competes in, I guarantee any of the lower ilvl parses who are active are playing poorly. This is especially true with low ilvl brackets (sub 950ish).

Getting high percentiles in super low ilvl brackets 7 months into a tier doesn't hold any weight and is not indication that you're playing your spec even remotely close to it's full potential.

And that doesn't change at all for overall. Overall is a completely meaningless measurement.

We aren't arguing the validity of these metrics. We are arguing the validity of these measurements VS each other. And overall is absolutely useless. Low ilvl = low overall, high ilvl = higher overall.

The percentile on ilvl is still a somewhat valid metric.

[Deleted]

And that doesn't change at all for overall. Overall is a completely meaningless measurement.

We aren't arguing the validity of these metrics. We are arguing the validity of these measurements VS each other. And overall is absolutely useless. Low ilvl = low overall, high ilvl = higher overall.

The percentile on ilvl is still a somewhat valid metric.

I don't think you're comprehending anything being said in this thread.

What do you even use the ilvl percentile for? To improve your performance ? If so you probably won't get anywhere because the majority of skilled players are 965-970+ anyways.

I guess if you are personally a lesser skilled player with low ilvl then it would make sense to only judge your performance based off of those.

[McFuu]

I don't think you're comprehending anything being said in this thread.

What do you even use the ilvl percentile for? To improve your performance ? If so you probably won't get anywhere because the majority of skilled players are 965-970+ anyways.

I guess if you are personally a lesser skilled player with low ilvl then it would make sense to only judge your performance based off of those.

I use it as a general guideline. I have an idea if I'm leaving damage on the table or not. But it's all very subjective to the fight and my role in it, Like PK or High command. Generally I don't try hard though, so I'm not changing my build for fights, so on ST patchwerk, I rely more on PB etc...

Like I said I'm not judging my performance solely off ilvl, but it's better than judging off of overall.

I think our disconnect is I am saying to use it as a measuring stick VS other players. When it should really only be used as a measuring stick for yourself.

But just because the "good" players have moved on to mythic, it doesn't mean their parses have, they still exist and they are still the measuring stick.

[amaze123]

I use it as a general guideline. I have an idea if I'm leaving damage on the table or not. But it's all very subjective to the fight and my role in it, Like PK or High command. Generally I don't try hard though, so I'm not changing my build for fights, so on ST patchwerk, I rely more on PB etc...

Like I said I'm not judging my performance solely off ilvl, but it's better than judging off of overall.

I think our disconnect is I am saying to use it as a measuring stick VS other players. When it should really only be used as a measuring stick for yourself.

But just because the "good" players have moved on to mythic, it doesn't mean their parses have, they still exist and they are still the measuring stick.

Nope. Ilvl% only compares with the public parses of the last two weeks. If you compare someone who has just scored a ~99 ilvl% at arround 950 and check the real top parses at 950 the difference is often half to one million dps. Sometimes more.

[SpikeySquad]

In such an expac with things like Arcano, legendaries, relics and TF item level means little in my opinion.

[Nutrition]

In such an expac with things like Arcano, legendaries, relics and TF item level means little in my opinion.

Ilv is pretty much useless and I would argue the most abused feature. I still remember a weird poster trying to say I was awful at the game for having low parses at 974 without tier and raid trinkets as a frost mage...

Though you might be able to argue ilv will be better now that tier is being removed it should still be taken with a grain of salt.

[Soluna]

Depends on your ilvl as many others have said. For me, I am 981 ilvl atm, my max performance average across the entire mythic antorus is 96.4. Sounds ok, right? What if I tell you that in fights like hounds, aggramar, coven, heck sometimes varimathras and antoran high command, I might have a 95-98 log, but the 'ilvl' performance is like 60-75? This is because people at my ilvl, and anything above 976 or so these days, is a bracket filled with ppl who were allowed to cheese the fuck out of fights (for example letting the warlock only dps in eonar, doing 9 million dps, while I normally do 4 million or so). So for me, let's say sometimes I kill varimathras and get 97 log overall, but 74 for my bracket, I am still ranked 97th percentile for varimathras mythic, which is well, pretty good in my opinion considering I follow mechanics.

On the other hand, when you are like 955-970, you look at ilvl performance, because to put it simply, you are not going to beat ppl higher ilvl than you if they geared well and can do fights properly, however, getting a good percentile in your bracket (like 95), means you play the class decently (any ilvl below that is bullshit to think about logs, cause everyone plays like trash till they get some decent gear, making it easy as fuck to get 95-100 logs for your ilvl bracket).

[Spryte]

Sometimes the sample size of the Ilvl brackets are just too small. For example in the 982-985 Ilvl bracket for Frost DKs there are only 5 public parses on Aggramar. This means the Ilvl% isn't going to be helpful at all in this case.

[MisterBigglez]

The higher ilvl a player has, the more important the overall is. Although at this point, theres too much cheesing going on in the fights so look at mainly ST fights where little to no cheesing can occur

[Vellithe]

If your iLvl is high, you look at overall, because your iLvl is high enough to compete with the big boys. If your iLvl isn't high, you look at the iLvl%, but you keep in mind that you're essentially competing with low-iLvl alts, so your performance seems inflated. I personally compare to SimulationCraft.