[Megathread] Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice

[dope_danny]

I mean, it really feels like an updated Tenchu game with no mission grading and better combat if you don't bother with stealth. Although the world is waaaay bigger.

Honestly i wouldn't mind them using a similar setting for a new Kuon game if they can revive Tenchu in this way.

[Dead Moose Fandango]

Honestly i wouldn't mind them using a similar setting for a new Kuon game if they can revive Tenchu in this way.

Oh, I would love that. Kuon was one of my first horror games I played and I have plenty of good memories of it. But I'd still rather a proper Tenchu game. Using Sekiro's gameplay is fine too.

[SirCowdog]

You make me jealous. Midir is the ONE boss I have trouble with. Everything else I can handle. But Midir is a pain.

Midir isn't even that complex of a fight. He just spams attacks with MASSIVE area of effect. That and the lock-on camera is basically useless for him. It's a similar design philosophy Phase 1 Nameless, just with like twice the area and frequency for the attacks and three times as many hitpoints.

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that was actually quite easy (but felt kinda cheap).

Never feel guilty about cheesing a Dark Souls game. They throw enough of it at you that it's just giving the game a taste of its own medicine, IMO.

[dope_danny]

So i have cleared every other path and found every secret -i think- thus far and i just beat the Shamisen player.

Only now did i learn holding guard lowers your posture bar very quickly. GG me.

[hellhamster]

So i have cleared every other path and found every secret -i think- thus far and i just beat the Shamisen player.

Only now did i learn holding guard lowers your posture bar very quickly. GG me.

If you think you found everything, you haven't found anything.

Hint: eavesdrop Kuro and Emma.

[dope_danny]

Boy the revisit of Ashina Castle is some Yhar'hargul style difficulty spike huh? i was getting used to everything past Genshiro being a cakewalk and god damn

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Theres a nice farming spot at this point too. If you go around reunlocking all the castle bonfires after the other ninja clan invades the grave one is like 10 feet away from a tengu on a wall. Crouch walk over, jump but hold square to grab the walls edge and you can stealth one shot him for 568xp, 59 sen and almost every time at least one healing pellet. Its like From designed this bit to be a farming spot when the difficulty of the area goes up

Posted a short clip of it: https://twitter.com/Dope_Danny/statu...42337498095616

[Champagne Supernova]

I prefer fountainhead palace for experience farms, Two spots there. The guy on the bridge by the feeding area gives an easy 1000 exp and bonfire is literally 10 paces away. The other one is the bonfire before the bridge that gets broken, just backtrack and kill the flute guys. More risk though with the stupid debuff they do.

[Poppincaps]

lol this whole easy mode debate is so dumb. People really just need to understand that sometimes shit isn't meant for you and that's okay.

[SirCowdog]

lol this whole easy mode debate is so dumb. People really just need to understand that sometimes shit isn't meant for you and that's okay.

Or they need to understand that you can't enjoy the feeling of overcoming a challenge if you're never challenged! This is the entire premise of Souls games, and if people haven't figured it out by now, they're stupid. Not ignorant or misguided. Stupid.

[Tech614]

lol this whole easy mode debate is so dumb. People really just need to understand that sometimes shit isn't meant for you and that's okay.

Sekiro with an easy mode(judging by easy modes in other games aka mindless you can't lose shit) would literally be like a 4 hour game for a casual play through lmao. Take away the certain difficulty spikes that act as walls and there actually isn't much game there(and not as much diversity to even replay it like you could with other games using different builds).

I wouldn't care if they added one, also don't care if they don't. Both sides of the argument are silly if joe schmo wants to waste his $60 to play a gameplay driven game on a difficulty setting where he can't lose and beats the game in no time don't care. If from software does not want to cater to that market also don't care lol.

[Dead Moose Fandango]

lol this whole easy mode debate is so dumb. People really just need to understand that sometimes shit isn't meant for you and that's okay.

I have a great idea for easy mode! An ingame map!

[dope_danny]

lol this whole easy mode debate is so dumb. People really just need to understand that sometimes shit isn't meant for you and that's okay.

and people can't deal with that. They simply can't. This is the trophy for participation generation where people have been taught time and again that if they cry enough and hard enough they will always get a company to cave purely from fear of some brand of witchhunt being directed their way. Most of the time however thats in terms of changing content or something. In this case its the equivalent of a Call of Duty player saying he really wants the story of Gone Home, but the devs should change the game to suit him even though he was never the audience they had in mind.

I think when it comes down to it its another symptomatic reaction of this new "watercooler gaming" idea. People that use videogames less as a hobby or challenge ro overcome but like TV shows like LOST or Buffy were ten or twenty years ago. They don't want a game. They want a wiki with some production value. They want "The Lore" and thats something specific. They dont want a story anymore than they want a challenge. They want tidbits, they want headcanons, they want youtube videos of foppy guys playing sad piano music and going "but...perhaps" as they regurgitate theories they lifted wholesale from 4chans /vg/ board.

Its a concept thats now gotten so extreme, almost directly proportionally as gaming itself has overtaken movies in the mainstream, that this casual market light user wants something they can shut off their brain and graze on like an action movie but at the same time something that feels like they are figuring out some deep insider knowledge they can talk about to others and in their eyes appear more intelligent for doing so. Its the lensless buddy holly glasses of game theory when you get right down to it.

Its become common enough that its actually the way some games, especially post dark souls are developed, for example remove all the backstory and holographic audiologs you find in Horizon Zero Dawn and the blank slate main character does maybe 7 things at 5 locations then the story just ends with nobody else in her world having any idea of the stuff she didn't do even occuring. Its garnish, flavour on top but where it used to be an afterthought its now becoming the prime motivator for a certain group of consumers as its treated like a book club.
Which is fine for something like Breath of the Wild because you can stumble on lonlon ranch and explore it but its within the parameters of the game designer and since its an easy game people don't complain. Whats different is when they are not the target audience but it includes this element of "lore, but not story". Case in point Hollow Knight. Hollow Knight is a fantastic metroidvania with some souls elements on top. It is challenging and requires some trial and error rather than cinematic quick time events for Grognak to get his lore fix. But there is 'lore' sprinkled all over the game about the setting of Hallownest even if the story overall is very safe and bland dark fantasy "the beginning after the end" tropes in practice.
However a lot of reviews from the far more casual journo crowd had them screeching in a rage that the game was an "mra alt right abelist bonanza of gatekeeping" because "the gameplay is getting in the way of all that lore".

I would bet good money 9 of every 10 people you see on twitter going "ALL THESE TRYHARDS NEED THIS GAMES DIFFICULTY TO VALIDATE THEM, MMM THIS TEA SO GUD, GET WRECKED FUCKING WHYTE MALES" -because apparently thats an added descriptor to these scathing one sided conversation checkmates very often- do not give a shit about Sekiro, they don't care about the mechanics, the gameplay or world design. They are just platinum tier buttmad they can't gather around the virtual watercooler and talk about "The Lore" and like hipsters not being able to get into a club dressed like bums they cannot deal with something they personally find as inaccessible and take it, like so many do with too many things these days, as a deeply personal attack from malicious developers for no greater reason than the videogame equivalent of "i'm missing out on the gossip!".

Thank god Fromsoftware is one of the few developers that know you stick to your own design and a core audience will follow, you alter the game for the impotent bleating of people who aren't really interested in your product and just want everything to be made for them as baseline and your core audience drops that shit and moves on. We all know IP's and whole studios that turned to shit this way in the last gen. so naturally these people are going nuclear in full on "IM NOT MAD UR MAD LOLOLOL SO MAD TRYHARDS *insert wojack crying behind a smug mask here*" because for once baby isn't having his bottle and they are so used to that not happening they cannot process it without a trigger warning.

[Kathandira]

I have a great idea for easy mode! An ingame map!

lol, That is a huge one for me in souls games. The lack of a map annoys the crap out of me. That and the respawning of enemies after I save at a checkpoint.

Even metroidvania games, which are all about exploration and not telling you what you need to do or where you need to go, offer you a map.

[Kumorii]

lol, That is a huge one for me in souls games. The lack of a map annoys the crap out of me.

Although I get that it's frustrating without a map I understand why they don't want to give you one and I think it's for the better.

[Kathandira]

Although I get that it's frustrating without a map I understand why they don't want to give you one and I think it's for the better.

Why is that? Legit question, I have no idea about the design theory behind it.

If it is for a good reason, i'd be cool with it.

[Kumorii]

Why is that? Legit question, I have no idea about the design theory behind it.

If it is for a good reason, i'd be cool with it.

Sense of disorientation and Isolation. Helps feeling like a underdog and a lost soul in a hostile world. It enhances the immersion. It also have the benefit of giving you more sense of joy when you find the secret or when you open that path to the latest save point.

Further you go away from the save point you most likely feel like you have more to lose, you can probably sense that you are close to another safe place but you are never sure. A map would however show you that yes, you are now close to the shortcut.

With a map you will never be lost, which is key component in the world they are trying to build.

I'm trying to find videos on people talking about this cause I know I've heard better arguments from others. It's also a hard thing to describe because you don't get this feeling then it won't be a benefit to you, which is ok.

[Kathandira]

Sense of disorientation and Isolation. Helps feeling like a underdog and a lost soul in a hostile world. It enhances the immersion. It also have the benefit of giving you more sense of joy when you find the secret or when you open that path to the latest save point.

Further you go away from the save point you most likely feel like you have more to lose, you can probably sense that you are close to another safe place but you are never sure. A map would however show you that yes, you are now close to the shortcut.

With a map you will never be lost, which is key component in the world they are trying to build.

I'm trying to find videos on people talking about this cause I know I've heard better arguments from others. It's also a hard thing to describe because you don't get this feeling then it won't be a benefit to you, which is ok.

I think that describes it quite well. That makes a ton of sense.

When playing Bloodborne, I absolutely got that exact feeling. It was a bit of a back and forth between frustration of having to find my way back to where I was, and the sense of joy from finally battling my way back without any form of assistance in getting there. Though sadly for me, the frustration won the war and I gave up due to feeling like I was spending too much time walking around lost and not feeling any sense of progression for too long. Though I am absolutely sure that is 100% on me, and not really a fault of the game. I mean, I could absolutely make my own map as I move along that could help me, which is further my fault, lol.

[RobertoCarlos]

Maps make sense for games like WoW and the witcher 3. But not sekiro....

[Cairhiin]

I think that describes it quite well. That makes a ton of sense.

When playing Bloodborne, I absolutely got that exact feeling. It was a bit of a back and forth between frustration of having to find my way back to where I was, and the sense of joy from finally battling my way back without any form of assistance in getting there. Though sadly for me, the frustration won the war and I gave up due to feeling like I was spending too much time walking around lost and not feeling any sense of progression for too long. Though I am absolutely sure that is 100% on me, and not really a fault of the game. I mean, I could absolutely make my own map as I move along that could help me, which is further my fault, lol.

I think that you should see it as part of the journey. As @Kumorii pointed out, the lack of a map adds a sense of danger and risk vs reward. You never know if you are far away from, or close to a bonfire (for the sake of ease I just call them all bonfire). What to do if you are out of healing? Press on and risk dying? Or return to the bonfire and reset? This is a bit less an issue in Sekiro I find due to ease of escaping from combat but you are still never certain where the next bonfire, or shortcut, is. If there would be a map in game, it would take away a lot of exploration.

As I said, you should see it as a part of the journey. While in Sekiro you lose 50% of your Sen and XP (unless you receive Unseen Aid) in Dark Souls you drop your souls and they are recoverable. Resetting can actually be beneficial as it allows you to grind souls/sen/xp to level up, buy items, or buy combat arts (Sekiro). I never feel that dying really sets me back in these kind of games (though dragonrot kinda sucks). Almost all deaths in these kind of games have meaning, they teach you something. Sure, there are those frustrating deaths that make you want to break your keyboard (or controller for those who play with one) but then I know it's usually time to take a break.

[SirCowdog]

As I said, you should see it as a part of the journey. While in Sekiro you lose 50% of your Sen and XP (unless you receive Unseen Aid) in Dark Souls you drop your souls and they are recoverable. Resetting can actually be beneficial as it allows you to grind souls/sen/xp to level up, buy items, or buy combat arts (Sekiro). I never feel that dying really sets me back in these kind of games (though dragonrot kinda sucks). Almost all deaths in these kind of games have meaning, they teach you something. Sure, there are those frustrating deaths that make you want to break your keyboard (or controller for those who play with one) but then I know it's usually time to take a break.

Dark Souls 2 had an interesting solution to this. Enemies reset if you died or rested at a bonfire, but after you killed them 10-12 times, they stopped respawning. You could completely reset this process by burning a Bonfire Ascetic, or if you joined the Champion's Covenant they would NEVER disappear and actually become more powerful.

This gave the player an option. They could grind their way through an area, or fail a bunch, but eventually the path would be cleared. Or they could choose to up the difficulty for more challenge.

Dark Souls 2 did a lot of things badly, but that wasn't one of them.