Thread: Doom Eternal

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  1. #641
    Quote Originally Posted by nocturnus View Post
    As valid as your points seem, rationally speaking, I think that the most recent iterations of Doom are the odd ones out; Glory kills? Platforming? Rotating fiery Super Mario chains floating in the air? Confetti consumables flying around after a chainsaw kill? Pole swinging? I mean, nothing about that is even remotely reminiscent of OG Doom. Doom 3 actually had things I recognised; pick-up sound effects, door sound effects, pick-up cues that triggered doors for rooms sheltering enemies right behind you, nigh-claustrophobic corridors, etc.

    I don't know man, the new games just don't feel like Doom. Maybe because I played Doom as a kid and actually experienced it as a scary game, rather than an arena theme park-arcade game.
    I mean, if you solely focus on the visual trappings, I guess. I'd argue that in terms of gameplay and driving design philosophy, running around with your super shotgun gibbing the forces of hell in various cathartic ways is far more Doom than listening to audio logs, and the general reception of the playerbase seems to trends towards the two most recent games being worthy successors while Doom 3 is oft ignored.

    To say nothing of the fact that audio-log heavy immersive sims have been done well fairly frequently in the recent past, while run and gun shooters were a dying breed in the post-Modern Warfare era of cover-based borefests. Doom being a return to form, alongside Wolfenstein to some extent, gave a huge breath of fresh air to a genre that needed it a lot, while atmospheric games still have yet to top Bioshock 1 if you ask me.

    I get your points, but I have completely different expectations from the game, is all. Doom 1 and 2 were very cartoony despite the violence, hell the pickups, demons and some gun models in Eternal are almost 1:1 recreations of the classic sprites. The ammo confetti display is a very clear visual cue, and the bright colors are an essential part of the nervous, fast-paced combat; you want to tell what's a medkit, an armor pickup or shotgun shells at a glance. Warframe does something very similar, as one of the few games on the market to be as fast-paced as Doom Eternal.

  2. #642
    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    I mean, if you solely focus on the visual trappings, I guess. I'd argue that in terms of gameplay and driving design philosophy, running around with your super shotgun gibbing the forces of hell in various cathartic ways is far more Doom than listening to audio logs, and the general reception of the playerbase seems to trends towards the two most recent games being worthy successors while Doom 3 is oft ignored.

    To say nothing of the fact that audio-log heavy immersive sims have been done well fairly frequently in the recent past, while run and gun shooters were a dying breed in the post-Modern Warfare era of cover-based borefests. Doom being a return to form, alongside Wolfenstein to some extent, gave a huge breath of fresh air to a genre that needed it a lot, while atmospheric games still have yet to top Bioshock 1 if you ask me.

    I get your points, but I have completely different expectations from the game, is all. Doom 1 and 2 were very cartoony despite the violence, hell the pickups, demons and some gun models in Eternal are almost 1:1 recreations of the classic sprites. The ammo confetti display is a very clear visual cue, and the bright colors are an essential part of the nervous, fast-paced combat; you want to tell what's a medkit, an armor pickup or shotgun shells at a glance. Warframe does something very similar, as one of the few games on the market to be as fast-paced as Doom Eternal.
    I agree wholeheartedly on the dire need for actually good action based shooters. I would never argue against either 2016 or Eternal; they have a very solid place in the market and as you eloquently said: we really don't need another cover-based borefest. That said, I would love a sequel (game play-wise) to Doom 3 in addition to the frantic arcade shooters which can be fun in their own right.

    Maybe sequels to Hexen and Heretic would satiate that hunger provided that they would be developed in the Eternal engine and with Doom 3's game play in mind. Obviously it isn't a realistic scenario, but a man can hope, right? There aren't that many good first person horror shooters beyond Dead Space, Metro 2033 and Bioshock, the latter disappointing more and more with each sequel they regurgitated.

    By the way, I did play Prey! Not long because I didn't like the blandness of it all; goo-monsters, really? Everything in shades of khaki, etc. A shame, considering the fact that sci-fi-horror is one of my favourite genres. Like 'Control', the environments and enemies were uninspired and bland.
    Last edited by nocturnus; 2020-04-07 at 09:22 AM.
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  3. #643
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    The later part of Doom 3 and Resurrection of Evil kinda had a similar pacing to Doom Eternal, however because there's no resource management or enemy management for that matter, what weapon you use doesn't matter as much. As, one is more of a survival horror type game while the other is very much an action shooter.

  4. #644
    Pit Lord Nutri's Avatar
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    I really loved Resurrection of Evil tbh.
    That was a solid addon!

    Doom 3 was nice even through the change of pace and.... 'genre'? compared to D1&2. It was good tho, but between 1+2+2016/Eternal it's kinda it's own thing.

    Doom 2016 was head and shoulders above any game in 2016 for me personally. Still have to pick up Eternal, but I'm sure I'll have a good time with it. Just waiting for the price to drop :-P

  5. #645
    Quote Originally Posted by nocturnus View Post
    I agree wholeheartedly on the dire need for actually good action based shooters. I would never argue against either 2016 or Eternal; they have a very solid place in the market and as you eloquently said: we really don't need another cover-based borefest. That said, I would love a sequel (game play-wise) to Doom 3 in addition to the frantic arcade shooters which can be fun in their own right.

    Maybe sequels to Hexen and Heretic would satiate that hunger provided that they would be developed in the Eternal engine and with Doom 3's game play in mind. Obviously it isn't a realistic scenario, but a man can hope, right? There aren't that many good first person horror shooters beyond Dead Space, Metro 2033 and Bioshock, the latter disappointing more and more with each sequel they regurgitated.

    By the way, I did play Prey! Not long because I didn't like the blandness of it all; goo-monsters, really? Everything in shades of khaki, etc. A shame, considering the fact that sci-fi-horror is one of my favourite genres. Like 'Control', the environments and enemies were uninspired and bland.
    I'd argue that games broadly like Doom 3 have been made. Bioshock, Prey, Dead Space, System Shock before these, hell if you extend the sub-genre to immersive shooters you could add things like the Metro series. But apart from Painkiller and Serious Sam, I can't name many fast-paced shooters since 2005.

    And I feel like you miss out if you dismiss Prey because it has goo monsters. Enemy design improves as the game goes on and the story has some cool narrative beats later on.

  6. #646
    Pit Lord Nutri's Avatar
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    Aaah Painkiller. Now thats another gem. Probably because as you state, it was one of the few fast paces shooters in an era where everything was generally slow.

  7. #647
    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    I'd argue that games broadly like Doom 3 have been made. Bioshock, Prey, Dead Space, System Shock before these, hell if you extend the sub-genre to immersive shooters you could add things like the Metro series. But apart from Painkiller and Serious Sam, I can't name many fast-paced shooters since 2005.

    And I feel like you miss out if you dismiss Prey because it has goo monsters. Enemy design improves as the game goes on and the story has some cool narrative beats later on.
    I might give Prey another shot; why not? System Shock is a classic, of course and if done with today's technology I doubt any other sci-fi-horror game could hold a candle to it.

    Quote Originally Posted by nocturnus View Post
    I might give Prey another shot; why not? System Shock is a classic, of course and if done with today's technology I doubt any other sci-fi-horror game could hold a candle to it.
    I played PK a lot, but only in MP.
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  8. #648
    Finally finished Nightmare, damn the Icon of Sin gave me some grief, probably because I was too busy attempting to thin the herd of demons rather than DPSing the boss. But I'm a sucker for the large amount of Crucicble pickups. Must sword things.

    I kinda hope that they release Final Sin as a master level somewhere down the line and make it completely crazy. I'm talking 4 Tyrants and two Doom Hunters at once or Marauders/Arch-vile combos during the final boss levels of crazy. I figure they have some leeway since these are optional side challenges and don't unlock anything, so they can get away with putting unfair BS in them just to test player skill and patience to their absolute limit.

    Also kinda hope they buff the Unmakyr or make it more interesting/usable in DLCs. It's good for boss fights since both the Khan and Icon have a gift for juking the BFG shot, but apart from that what is supposed to be the game's ultimate weapon seems to not do that much more DPS than the upgraded chaingun, at a far steeper ammo cost, while the BFG clears entire rooms in a shot.

  9. #649
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    Finally finished Nightmare, damn the Icon of Sin gave me some grief, probably because I was too busy attempting to thin the herd of demons rather than DPSing the boss. But I'm a sucker for the large amount of Crucicble pickups. Must sword things.

    I kinda hope that they release Final Sin as a master level somewhere down the line and make it completely crazy. I'm talking 4 Tyrants and two Doom Hunters at once or Marauders/Arch-vile combos during the final boss levels of crazy. I figure they have some leeway since these are optional side challenges and don't unlock anything, so they can get away with putting unfair BS in them just to test player skill and patience to their absolute limit.

    Also kinda hope they buff the Unmakyr or make it more interesting/usable in DLCs. It's good for boss fights since both the Khan and Icon have a gift for juking the BFG shot, but apart from that what is supposed to be the game's ultimate weapon seems to not do that much more DPS than the upgraded chaingun, at a far steeper ammo cost, while the BFG clears entire rooms in a shot.
    Pretty sure Archvile spawned in the original Icon of Sin fight, which made it more important that you kill the boss quickly so you don't get steam rolled by all the enemies he spawns on Ultra Violence or Nightmare. Once those Archvile start bringing dead Mancubus up things can get hairy.

    Seems like the general opinion is that the Unmakyr isn't strong enough though. In Doom 64 it's a fun weapon though, sadly it's impossible to use those mechanics in Eternal because using it once could mean you die if you get hit
    Last edited by Rennadrel; 2020-04-08 at 01:22 AM.

  10. #650
    Quote Originally Posted by Rennadrel View Post
    Pretty sure Archvile spawned in the original Icon of Sin fight, which made it more important that you kill the boss quickly so you don't get steam rolled by all the enemies he spawns on Ultra Violence or Nightmare. Once those Archvile start bringing dead Mancubus up things can get hairy.

    Seems like the general opinion is that the Unmakyr isn't strong enough though. In Doom 64 it's a fun weapon though, sadly it's impossible to use those mechanics in Eternal because using it once could mean you die if you get hit
    Oh, there are Arch-Viles, I think I killed two via swording. But add in double Marauders for double the fun *grins maliciously*.

    IMO the Unmakyr should have used its own ammo source, or maybe share it with rockets because fuck logic when it comes to these things anyway. It's kind of hard to share an ammo pool with the weapon that insta-kills everything but three superheavies and two bosses.

  11. #651
    Is there any source about what happened for the Doom Slayer between 2016 and Eternal?
    Something about how we go from being dumped back into hell at the end of 2016 to standing on a Doom Fortress starship over Earth talking to Vega like it something we have been doing every tuesday for years?

    For all the gaps in the Doom Slayers past they try to fill in over the course of the game this one gets strangely ignored.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  12. #652
    Is it pretty clear at this point that Samuel Hayden is the Samur Maykr thaht buffed Doomguy into Doom Slayer?

    Loved Doom Eternal, loved the new ammo mechanics, pace of combats, weakpoints, everything. Platforming is there to avoid overcharging our system with such adrenaline rushes for the combats, so it's nice.
    Playing it now in UltraViolence, hopefully will give it a try in Nightmare soon.

  13. #653
    Quote Originally Posted by UNHEILVOLL View Post
    Is it pretty clear at this point that Samuel Hayden is the Samur Maykr thaht buffed Doomguy into Doom Slayer?

    Loved Doom Eternal, loved the new ammo mechanics, pace of combats, weakpoints, everything. Platforming is there to avoid overcharging our system with such adrenaline rushes for the combats, so it's nice.
    Playing it now in UltraViolence, hopefully will give it a try in Nightmare soon.
    Yes Hayden is the Seraphim, the traiter Maykr who buffed the Doom Slayer and Vega is Father the progenitor? of the Maykr. Aside from my opinion that Hayden turning out to be trans dimensional super being is kinda hella dumb it also runs into issues that Samur betrayed and left the Maykr's because of their pact with hell only to turn around and use the very energy he rebelled over to then power earth.
    It also makes his attempts to reason with the Doom Slayer pointless since he knows your an uncompromising killing machine that will never tolerate Hell.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  14. #654
    The Unstoppable Force Arrashi's Avatar
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    Its also pretty clear that the longer the icon of sin is on earth, the stronger it becomes

  15. #655
    The Lightbringer zEmini's Avatar
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    Battlemode is fun but also needs some serious balance adjustments. I also think that the game needs other multiplayer modes such as DM and Coop to keep players interested.

    I got the Phobos Skin with the UAC podium. Looks pretty sick.

  16. #656
    Quote Originally Posted by zEmini View Post
    Battlemode is fun but also needs some serious balance adjustments. I also think that the game needs other multiplayer modes such as DM and Coop to keep players interested.

    I got the Phobos Skin with the UAC podium. Looks pretty sick.
    My view of the balance has zigzagged. I first thought slayer was OP mostly because nobody knew how to play demons, then thought some like the Marauder were overpowered, now I'm back in the camp that a good Slayer is definitely the strongest possible force in the field. No amount of demon coordination can overshadow that fact that the Slayer is ungodly fast and can deal stupid amounts of damage with quick weapon switching. If a Marauder's shield is down you can almost literally kill him in 3 seconds if you aim true and are a bit lucky. Ballista for 600, super shotty meatshot for 800 to 900, finish with another 600 Ballista. You just have an ability to dictate the pace of the game which the demons can't match.

    I know find the scariest demons to be Archvile, who can trap you in you're not careful which is a death sentence, and the Mancubus which is the only demon that effectively creates a dead zone around themselves, being able to 1v1 the Slayer at close range while being deceptively quick sometimes. The Revenant needs a buff, Pain Elemental is mostly a nuisance, and Marauder is very player dependent, the good ones are a threat and can harass you for a while but the poor ones just charge at you brainlessly and get rekt.

  17. #657
    I am Murloc! hellhamster's Avatar
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    Just finished it on Nightmare.

    Incredible. Absolutely incredible.

  18. #658
    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    And I feel like you miss out if you dismiss Prey because it has goo monsters. Enemy design improves as the game goes on and the story has some cool narrative beats later on.
    I gave Prey another shot; it was 5 euro so why not.

    You were definitely right, once I shrugged away the extremely lame goo mosters (which I still think are excruciatingly uninspired), I started getting immersed in the experience of a desolate space station. The game has been great so far, thanks for the tip man.
    "Just flow with the go..." - Rickson Gracie

  19. #659
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    I've been playing 2016 since I am waiting to do an upgrade before I get Eternal. Summoners are such a pain in the ass because they move so quickly. There's one part in the first Hell level where you have to fight one of them and two Baron's at the same time and god damn, it's just such a brutal fight and there's far less mobility in Doom 2016 than there is in Eternal.

  20. #660
    I tried playing 2016 again after having finished Eternal and damn, they feel SO different.

    Is it me, or is 2016 like a Turbo version compared to Eternal's (what feels like) slower game play?
    "Just flow with the go..." - Rickson Gracie

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