1. #3001
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    EDIT: things you don't see in the pic - mods are all skill durations since it makes the fire from sticky to last longer
    Are you sure about that? It was my understanding that Skill Duration only effects things like how long deployables last. Debuffs like fire, blind, bleed, etc, are only increased by Status Effects.

    Or did they change that?

  2. #3002
    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    Are you sure about that? It was my understanding that Skill Duration only effects things like how long deployables last. Debuffs like fire, blind, bleed, etc, are only increased by Status Effects.

    Or did they change that?
    Didn't know that, may be the case - i just did guesswork. Anyway, 3 skill haste rolls are pretty useless aswell, cannot wait to have free mods so i can just go crit or protection from elites if i want to be tankier in solo. Easily swappable aswell depending on the context.

    They really need to revamp the mods. Most of them are useless as hell. Give us less of them, but more interesting and applicable to more skills (like bleed damage, or procs or interactions between skill and shooting).
    EDIT: i'd pay a soul and a half for a lifestealing mod for drone. Tuned well, it would make drone more sustainable and still require investment since a lvl 0 drone would have negligible lifesteal.
    No one wants to choose. Everyone wants everything.

  3. #3003
    Playing my Mantis build again and...man, it just shits all over everything else I've tried. Other builds can be fun, but in terms of effectiveness the Mantis build dominates. Easy to get HH rolling, and after 1 kill I can just take out one dude after another unless they've got a helmet on, then maybe a few hits. Mantis makes headshotting to much easier, and decoy helps give me time to more casually line up shots. It ain't fancy, but it's damn effective.

    Played in a group with a CC character that was using riot form (and I think shock trap) and...it legitimately wasn't even fair. Foamed groups as they spawned and just let me lazily pick them all off one by one. I actually felt bad for the other dudes my my group (some kinda skill build and...I don't remember the fourth guy), because by the end I'd racked up almost all the kills due to having functional target dummies to shoot at.

    And the dumbest part is that the build absolutely seems to shred harder with Burn Out than my AR build does, and it's got 3P Araldi in it. Part of it's the much higher rate of fire, but that sucker is easily critting for 500K headshots on the regular, and if I reload from empty the 40% weapon handling shreds even harder as I'm getting more headshots. Just wish that buffs like that weapon handling on full reload refreshed, there really seem to be a lot of buffs in the game that fire but won't refresh.

    Oh well, more headshots galore shall be in my near future. Guess I should try to pug the raids at some point or something, I do wanna play around with Eagle Bearer and some of the other raid specific gear at some point.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    Didn't know that, may be the case - i just did guesswork. Anyway, 3 skill haste rolls are pretty useless aswell, cannot wait to have free mods so i can just go crit or protection from elites if i want to be tankier in solo. Easily swappable aswell depending on the context.
    It's kinda silly how many more ways to gain damage weapon builds to vs. skill builds. I mean.

    Weapon damage
    Crit damage
    Crit chance
    Weapon handling (I'll roll all those into one since they're individually less effective)
    Damage to health
    Damage to armor
    Rate of fire

    And I'm probably forgetting a few. Skills have...

    Skill damage
    Skill haste (seems to only affect cooldowns)
    Skill duration (I guess also only affects actual skills themselves)

    And that's pretty much it.

    I mean, I get it that skill builds are also doing weapon damage at the same time, but it's usually such a small/trivial amount. Even with my skill build and a pretty darned good roll on my AR with spotter, it takes the better part of a full mag to kill a red dude in a 4 man group on heroic.

    I mean, it's balanced "alright" I suppose, just feels/seems kinda underwhelming.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Been seeing shotgun players extolling the virtues of Braced on chest as a way to make the guns more effective at range. Honestly, I've never much cared for the weapon handling stats outside of reload, as my opinion has been "I would rather pump damage elsewhere and compensate by aiming better" (for accuracy/stability).

    But it got me thinking and I swapped it on my chest for my AR build and swapped to my perfect rolled Burn Out. So that's 45% handling from chest + 40% from my weapon for 10 seconds on full reload. With a weapon that outputs 900RPM and a 50 round magazine. To sum it up

    Hi-fucking-larious

    Still tinkering with gear a bit and will need to trade a bunch of crit for crit damage if I want to really see how it works, but holy hell does bullet spread basically not become a thing, and with the buff rolling my reload goes from 2.3s down to like .4 seconds or something absolutely disgusting, it barely interrupts my firing.

    Need to test it more, but for now I'm feeling minorly validated by swapping something like Obliteration for it.

    Trying with my perfect MK17 with boomerang on it and holy shit there literally is no recoil with just braced alone. 1M regular crits.

    Trying to figure out what secondary skill to run beyond revive hive though. Tried crusader shield but it's bloody useless at skill tier 0, thinking of trying CC foam as I imagine something like repair drone at 0 would be largely useless and easily nuked.
    Last edited by Edge-; 2020-08-06 at 03:39 AM.

  4. #3004
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post

    It's kinda silly how many more ways to gain damage weapon builds to vs. skill builds. I mean.

    Skills have...

    Skill damage
    Skill haste (seems to only affect cooldowns)
    Skill duration (I guess also only affects actual skills themselves)

    And that's pretty much it.
    Yeah, but each individual skill also has mods too, similar to how guns have mods. Although those generally aren't significant. 5% radius on chem launcher really doesn't matter.

    I hope when they do the overall pass for mods that they look into ways to spice things up. But given how every time Massive changes one thing, they screw up two others....maybe they should just leave it alone. XD

    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Been seeing shotgun players extolling the virtues of Braced on chest as a way to make the guns more effective at range.
    I never even considered that. I guess it could work. But even if weapon handling reduces the spread and stability, it won't do anything for optimal range....which is the real problem with most shotguns.

    I guess you could use some mod slots to increase optimal range, but that comes atbthe expense of other options. So now you're in a position where you're giving up a chest talent and weapon mods. When really you could just be using a rifle for better effect at longer range.

    It would be interesting to see some video footage of it though. I doubt it would top the Ninjabike Kneepads/Intimidate/Adrenalin Rush build tho.

  5. #3005
    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    I never even considered that. I guess it could work. But even if weapon handling reduces the spread and stability, it won't do anything for optimal range....which is the real problem with most shotguns.
    Yeah, that approach doesn't really appeal to me.

    With my current setup I'm feeling like my damage is low and getting some better pieces that will let me rotate more from headshot damage to crit damage will help quite a bit. Need to try a heroic solo proper, but played the start of DARPA solo and the build was definitely shredding more like I want it to. Damage just isn't quite there for groups.

    Going back and forth between Contractors for the armor damage (since that's what I really need, my health damage is plenty fine) and trying to get a piece of the brand set that gives 15% crit damage as the first bonus to fill out my gear. It's either one of those or 3p W&H (other 3 are Fox's Prayer, Fenrus, and Coyote). But honestly not sure which will give me the most bang for my buck right now.

    Edit: OH HELL I CAN TRY BULLET KING AND THAT'LL WORK GRAND WITH CONTRACTORS! So much for sleep, more testing!


    Edit 2: Bullet King sucks. HOWEVER MERCILESS BECOMES PRETTY RAD SINCE THE KICK IS ABSOLUTLEY CONTROLLABLE. This is all based on target dummy testing. Getting 800K headshot hits with that with the explosion hitting for 1.2M, will be trying in place of MK17 to see how that rolls.

    Finally found a decent Grupo Sombra piece, so now rocking 1P Fenrus, 2P W&H, Fox's Prayer, and 1P GS. With Burn Out -

    106.5K Weapon dmg
    33% Crit Hit (usually sitting closer to 50-60% due to Coyote)
    96% Crit dmg (usually over 100% due to Coyote)
    81% HS damage
    11% Armor dmg
    21% Weapon dmg

    Damnit all I need to sleep but I also NEED to test this out now.

    Did invaded roosevelt, went far smoother than expected. Damage seems to be better with Burn Out and Merciless is performing admirably. But it..kinda seems like stacks aren't working properly because I should have absolutely had at least 2 explosions laying into a heavy at close range (I couldn't have missed more than 1 shot) and only got 1 and part of another.

    Will need to test/tweak more, and especially will need to figure out a secondary skill to use, but so far I'm liking this as a very easy, stupid, straight forward "hold button to kill" build.
    Last edited by Edge-; 2020-08-06 at 06:18 AM.

  6. #3006
    Pit Lord Advent's Avatar
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    I'm amazed the game is still popping. I think I got to level 30 and just stopped because I had no idea what I was doing. The systems, stats and gear were really beyond me, kind of like Warframe was at the start.

  7. #3007
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    -snip-
    I'm finding the Sticky being the go-to secondary skill. Main one is always the heal chem because it's just way more effective than anything else. Also, if you play with the skill directive, the ress Hive is useless. With the sticky, you can have a little CC tool for named/tanks as usually other guys just drop like leaves.

    I definitely want a Carnage to add to my Directive build. Pestilence is really good at dealing with normal enemies since the dot jumps and stacks, becoming pretty nasty in no time. Tanks however are just a pain, and the dot doesn't work well at all - since applying a bleed is automatic with Directive due to the special ammo, the Perfect Saidist is always up (and i can get special ammo also for that if i kill anything that has a status on).

    Only things i have issues with are robodogs and such. Pestilence is good cause the dot compensates, but i think i'm gonna pick the EMP sticky since it counts as a status (for the dmg bonus from Survivalist) and it disables such proxies.

    EDIT: i think i now want to work with a SMG build. Thinking about a 4red/2blue or such, shield and standard combo with bonus armor and intimidate. I have a well rolled Cold Relations with perfect vindictive and i want to try it.
    No one wants to choose. Everyone wants everything.

  8. #3008
    Why do you have 'problems' with doggos, but don't really know which skill to pick with that build?
    Just pick anti doggo pulse then for Black Tusk stuff.
    Or use your Signature weapon for them.
    Last edited by KrayZ33; 2020-08-06 at 09:03 AM.

  9. #3009
    Quote Originally Posted by KrayZ33 View Post
    Why do you have 'problems' with doggos, but don't really know which skill to pick with that build?
    Just pick anti doggo pulse then for Black Tusk stuff.
    Or use your Signature weapon for them.
    That wasn't the point at all - i perfectly know what's effective against what. The point was that if you base all your damage on shooting stuff, eveything goes down in the same way. The rest of stuff - be skills, status effects, etc are affected by a multitude of things full red build just ignore.

    I can get the EMP sticky to deal with doggos in an easier way, but then i lose a damaging status which still counts. Bleeding is still non functional while being a good part of the total damage. And while i can just swap builds for missions for example, the problem is in the open world where it's just random patrols popping around and i have to deal with everything at once.

    TL;DR: by "problems" i mean "build is less effective so i want to try other stuff to cover that".
    No one wants to choose. Everyone wants everything.

  10. #3010
    Well, you are using the Xbow anyway, so I don't see how your build has a "weakness" against robots anywhere. Just use the Signature Weapon - it's already the counter for these things because it deals explosive damage and should ignore doggo-armor, so why are you saying that they are the only problem.
    Last edited by KrayZ33; 2020-08-06 at 09:58 AM.

  11. #3011
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    81% HS damage
    What's going on there? Or is that the built in HS damage from Merciless?

    - - - Updated - - -

    SOTG today.

    Not a lot of info. But a few gems:

    There will be a PTS for TU11.
    TU11 is planned for "late august".
    Skyscraper and rainbow loot will be in TU11.

    However....a concern. When asked if Skyscraper will be free for WONY players, they deflected with "we're not ready to announce any further details about TU11. "

    Either that means exactly what they said. That the guy literally didn't know. Or It's a cover for a purchase price. We'll see....

    Depending on what things look like in the PTS, I could maybe see a $10 purchase is it includes season 3 and Skyscraper. I can't really see more than that given the limited content release.

  12. #3012
    Quote Originally Posted by KrayZ33 View Post
    Well, you are using the Xbow anyway, so I don't see how your build has a "weakness" against robots anywhere. Just use the Signature Weapon - it's already the counter for these things because it deals explosive damage and should ignore doggo-armor, so why are you saying that they are the only problem.
    Explosive damage doesn't ignore armor, it's actually less effective since the damage is split between the various armor parts (same with tank mobs). The "main issue" is to apply a status effect to them as they're affected only by disrupt and bleeding, which is a substantial part of the build, isn't counted.

    Again it's not a matter of killing them - it's literally them negating a lot of the bonuses the build has. All while a standard PEWPEW full red build has no troubles with any kind of enemy, and i really don't get why it should be like this.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    What's going on there? Or is that the built in HS damage from Merciless?

    - - - Updated - - -

    SOTG today.

    Not a lot of info. But a few gems:

    There will be a PTS for TU11.
    TU11 is planned for "late august".
    Skyscraper and rainbow loot will be in TU11.

    However....a concern. When asked if Skyscraper will be free for WONY players, they deflected with "we're not ready to announce any further details about TU11. "

    Either that means exactly what they said. That the guy literally didn't know. Or It's a cover for a purchase price. We'll see....

    Depending on what things look like in the PTS, I could maybe see a $10 purchase is it includes season 3 and Skyscraper. I can't really see more than that given the limited content release.
    I really don't want it to be a paid addition, though stuff like Underground were paid DLCs - if it's included with the season pass, it's "fine", but only because i would have bought it anyway. If it's separated, it must be a REALLY better way to farm and play otherwise why should i pay to get a game mode that's at best on par with normal farming.

    EDIT: just checked, and they confirmed that they're putting a "solution" for rainbow loot in TU11. What will beand how effective will be it's a mystery.
    Last edited by Coldkil; 2020-08-06 at 10:56 AM.
    No one wants to choose. Everyone wants everything.

  13. #3013
    Warchief Nutri's Avatar
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    If Skyscraper is paid content I will either skip it or have another look at it after like 2-3 months to see how it keeps afloat on all the reviews it gets.

  14. #3014
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    Explosive damage doesn't ignore armor, it's actually less effective since the damage is split between the various armor parts (same with tank mobs). The "main issue" is to apply a status effect to them as they're affected only by disrupt and bleeding, which is a substantial part of the build, isn't counted.
    .
    the grenade launcher ignores doggo-armor, I'd reckon the same thing applies to crossbow bolts.

    Might be because doggos actually have a point where there is no armor and you can hit the health directly. So the explosion damage might hit that too, which is why they take health damage.
    Last edited by KrayZ33; 2020-08-06 at 03:58 PM.

  15. #3015
    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    What's going on there? Or is that the built in HS damage from Merciless?
    I'll need to actually look at all my gear, but I believe it's a bunch of HS damage spread across gear I have. Again, it's a weird mix of gear that I whipped up to make various other builds work (Mantis, MMR/R crit, Diamondback builds mostly) so the recals are usually more geared towards that. I'll be trying to work up a list of actual gear/stats I need for each set and likely trying to whittle down to only 3 sets that I carry around (likely Mantis, AR Red, stinger hive/assault drone builds).

    But here's the thing...it's not as if all that headshot damage is necessarily bad, because with so much WH from Braced/Burn Out I can pretty much apply a 50 round magazine directly onto the forehead of enemies at 25 meters pretty easily.

    Though I am thinking of testing an AK out with Braced, seems like the WH would address the issues with accuracy/stability/reload and make it more attractive for much chunkier hits. Not sure what talent I'd want on it (probably crit damage while firing since it's got a lower rate of fire to let it stay maxed out longer) but I think that's the next thing to play with for now.

    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    There will be a PTS for TU11.
    TU11 is planned for "late august".
    Skyscraper and rainbow loot will be in TU11.
    Yay.
    That's sooner than I expected, yay!
    ...I assume you mean "less rainbow loot"? If so, double yay for that and skyscraper!

    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    However....a concern. When asked if Skyscraper will be free for WONY players, they deflected with "we're not ready to announce any further details about TU11. "

    Either that means exactly what they said. That the guy literally didn't know. Or It's a cover for a purchase price. We'll see....
    Or that they know, they're just not ready to announce. I hope it's not sold separately, they moved away from that content delivery approach after it bombed in TD1 and haven't been using it for TD2 yet. I imagine they are just expecting backlash (which wouldn't be surprising, but releasing free content for the base game when there's an expansion is a bit odd) and want to wait until they can reveal what the content is alongside how it will be delivered.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Shit...I totally didn't realize Sawyers had that 30% weapon damage increase on it (if you stay behind cover for 10s)...that's tempting to play around with instead of Fox's Prayer/Coyote. May have to see I can make that work tonight on top of the other testing. Should definitely make me tankier at the very least, and maybe with the blue node make the crusader shield slightly less useless as a secondary skill.
    Last edited by Edge-; 2020-08-06 at 05:13 PM.

  16. #3016
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    But here's the thing...it's not as if all that headshot damage is necessarily bad, because with so much WH from Braced/Burn Out I can pretty much apply a 50 round magazine directly onto the forehead of enemies at 25 meters pretty easily.
    I guess I just view all headshot damage as bad because of how many dangerous enemies you fight that just don't have heads. If I was you, I'd replace as much of that HS damage with crit damage.



    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Yay.
    That's sooner than I expected, yay!
    ...I assume you mean "less rainbow loot"? If so, double yay for that and skyscraper!
    Yeah, I just didn't want to type it all out because I was on my phone, and I figured everyone knew what the story was with rainbow loot.



    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Or that they know, they're just not ready to announce. I hope it's not sold separately, they moved away from that content delivery approach after it bombed in TD1 and haven't been using it for TD2 yet. I imagine they are just expecting backlash (which wouldn't be surprising, but releasing free content for the base game when there's an expansion is a bit odd) and want to wait until they can reveal what the content is alongside how it will be delivered.
    Given how irritated and bored a lot of players are, I think it would be a mistake to lock new content behind a pay wall. I really do think the battle/season pass thing is the way to go. Add objectives and cosmetics for completing various objectives that are only gained if you pay for the pass. But not the content itself.

  17. #3017
    I'm legit shocked that Sawyer's appears to be a damage increase over Coyote once the buff gets rolling, but it is. It's not massive, but it's noticeable enough that it's worth the swap alone. The added armor/health and immunity to explosion stagger is just a huge freakin side bonus.

    Changed things up a bit as a result, 2P W&H, 1P Ceska, 1P Grupo Sombra, 1P Fenris. It actually let me swap some stats around a touch and ridiculously, I'm somehow up to 56% crit and 109% crit damage. Will need to test how it compares, but it seems better from the target room alone.

    And holy hell, the AK-M plays. Need to get a decent one, but I crafted a super overwhelmingly mediocre one and tossed Strained on it and I'm seeing headshot crits for upwards of 1M+ on a bloody AR. @SirCowdog I'm assuming that headshot damage is 50% base, so my 72% is closer to what I'd think it'd be...but even then it's still a bit high. Still trying to figure it out, but I'll definitely be working to farm a solid AK-M with Strained that I can put 6% armor damage on to give that a nice boost.

    I think I've settled on Bulwark for my second ability. 4.6M health and 100K active regen thanks to Sawyers giving it a rank, and I cannot believe how hard my Mozambique Special hits. That little motherfucker was hitting from 400-700K a shot when I was testing it out earlier, and I wasn't even really trying to make use of P Breadbasket. Playing around with it now in the target room...what the fuckity fuck. Without anything pumping pistol damage at all this thing is headshotting for 600-900K, over 750K-1.1M with double breadbasket stack, and bodyshotting for between 230K and 570K.

    Holy hell, I almost want to try to see if there's a tankier build that can be done around this, because like...swap around a few red nodes for blue nodes, trade Fenris for the pistol set...you avoid losing much damage with it while gaining considerable tankiness. GOD DAMNIT I DON'T NEED ANOTHER BULID TO TEST OUT TONIGHT : |
    Last edited by Edge-; 2020-08-07 at 03:42 AM.

  18. #3018
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    I'm legit shocked that Sawyer's appears to be a damage increase over Coyote once the buff gets rolling, but it is. It's not massive, but it's noticeable enough that it's worth the swap alone. The added armor/health and immunity to explosion stagger is just a huge freakin side bonus.

    Changed things up a bit as a result, 2P W&H, 1P Ceska, 1P Grupo Sombra, 1P Fenris. It actually let me swap some stats around a touch and ridiculously, I'm somehow up to 56% crit and 109% crit damage. Will need to test how it compares, but it seems better from the target room alone.

    And holy hell, the AK-M plays. Need to get a decent one, but I crafted a super overwhelmingly mediocre one and tossed Strained on it and I'm seeing headshot crits for upwards of 1M+ on a bloody AR. @SirCowdog I'm assuming that headshot damage is 50% base, so my 72% is closer to what I'd think it'd be...but even then it's still a bit high. Still trying to figure it out, but I'll definitely be working to farm a solid AK-M with Strained that I can put 6% armor damage on to give that a nice boost.

    I think I've settled on Bulwark for my second ability. 4.6M health and 100K active regen thanks to Sawyers giving it a rank, and I cannot believe how hard my Mozambique Special hits. That little motherfucker was hitting from 400-700K a shot when I was testing it out earlier, and I wasn't even really trying to make use of P Breadbasket. Playing around with it now in the target room...what the fuckity fuck. Without anything pumping pistol damage at all this thing is headshotting for 600-900K, over 750K-1.1M with double breadbasket stack, and bodyshotting for between 230K and 570K.

    Holy hell, I almost want to try to see if there's a tankier build that can be done around this, because like...swap around a few red nodes for blue nodes, trade Fenris for the pistol set...you avoid losing much damage with it while gaining considerable tankiness. GOD DAMNIT I DON'T NEED ANOTHER BULID TO TEST OUT TONIGHT : |
    If you're not already using an exotic, why not drop a Liberty to use when you swap to the bulwark?

    I am a little surprised at Sawyers being a damage increase, especially considering the blue core. Could the buff for not moving be multiplicative maybe?

    But yeah, for a pistol tank:

    Claws Out holster
    Punch Drunk Mask
    Sawyers Knees.

  19. #3019
    Quote Originally Posted by KrayZ33 View Post
    the grenade launcher ignores doggo-armor, I'd reckon the same thing applies to crossbow bolts.

    Might be because doggos actually have a point where there is no armor and you can hit the health directly. So the explosion damage might hit that too, which is why they take health damage.
    Well, i'm gonna try, if it's working nice for me

    Also, found that emp applying disrupt on dogs also triggers Vile, since it's a status effect.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    If you're not already using an exotic, why not drop a Liberty to use when you swap to the bulwark?

    I am a little surprised at Sawyers being a damage increase, especially considering the blue core. Could the buff for not moving be multiplicative maybe?

    But yeah, for a pistol tank:

    Claws Out holster
    Punch Drunk Mask
    Sawyers Knees.
    It is multiplicative. Though i've never been a fan of them, i really move way too much for them to get stacked up.
    No one wants to choose. Everyone wants everything.

  20. #3020
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post



    It is multiplicative. Though i've never been a fan of them, i really move way too much for them to get stacked up.
    Same for me. Always moving when I've got a shield. Always looking for a better angle, or blocking LOS for some enemies.

    Tho I should probably use sawyers for headhunter builds. Might help me for when I miss.

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