Thread: Starfield

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  1. #141
    OK that's all great and everything, but can we get elder scrolls 6 now.

  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by Brenz View Post
    OK that's all great and everything, but can we get elder scrolls 6 now.
    Still in pre-production, we're not gonna see that until at least 2026. Feels bad man.

  3. #143
    Really...
    Here's how you do it. You procedurally generate 1000+ planets. Then, on every planet, you hand-craft a dungeon; or a city; or a base; or whatever. Done.
    Every sane player will just visit the dungeon/city/base.
    If the planet is rich in resources you need, you may land in the wilderness to do some gathering (and then fly off).
    If you like the planet's environments, you may build your own base in the middle of nowhere.
    Noone will wander through every planet (well, noone sane that is). Go have a look on the surface of Mars. How difficult would it be to generate it procedurally...? You may put something intersting there (alien pyramids or whatever) and mark it on the map, so you can land in the right spot, visit it, loot it, and fly off.
    Noone would wander through the whole surface of Mars. Noone sane that is. But the planets are there (in the game I mean) to create an impression of a huge universe. Not to make you visit them all. It takes no effort to create those planets if you have the right tool (see, dunno, Minecraft). All you have to do is create different biomes and the tool takes care of the rest.
    It is absolutely and completely irrelevant how many planets are there in Starfield. It. Does. Not. Matter. What matters is:
    1) all the areas that will be hand crafted;
    2) good, easy to read UI/mapping feature that lets you find those areas quickly;
    3) means of fast travel.
    So all you do is: fast-travel to a planet; then use some kind of scanning feature to find interesting places; then interact with the places; then fly to a different planet. Flying between planets is like wandering through forest in Skyrim and finding different caves and ruins.
    Yes, the procedurally generated surface is still there, around the hand-crafted location. Is it exciting? No. Should you invest your time to wander through it? No.
    But can it serve a purpose? Yes. Can you populate it with mods? Yes. Can you build your own bases there? Yes. And that's the whole point of it. You are not supposed to walk through empty, procedurally generated surfaces. That's not the point. The point is to make it seem like a huge universe - and give you almost infinite number of sandboxes you can play with, or completely ignore.
    Last edited by Rageonit; 2022-06-15 at 01:38 PM.

  4. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rageonit View Post
    So all you do is: fast-travel to a planet; then use some kind of scanning feature to find interesting places; then interact with the places; then fly to a different planet.
    Basically Mass Effect's way to finding planets to visit.
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  5. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rageonit View Post
    Really...
    Here's how you do it. You procedurally generate 1000+ planets. Then, on every planet, you hand-craft a dungeon; or a city; or a base; or whatever. Done.
    Yeah! Just hand craft 1000+ dungeons/cities/bases!

    So simple! 4Head
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  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    Yeah! Just hand craft 1000+ dungeons/cities/bases!

    So simple! 4Head
    AFAIK Skyrim had over 300 places to explore, so forgive me for saying "every planet". I will try harder in the future, so you can be less petty. And if you missed the gist of my post, then I'm afraid I can't write it any simpler.

  7. #147
    1000+ planets just hits my fomo but also reminds me of grinding. This article is the exact opposite of how I feel:

    https://culturedvultures.com/starfie...-in-whats-new/

    In the article, it seems to me, the person wants a space exploration game with ship and base building, and laments the parts of the game that are carryovers from wrpgs. I just want a WRPG. Base and ship "customization" beyond practical upgrades are absolutely meaningless to me. They are cosmetics.

    It seems like there are at least two groups who want starfield. The traditional group who is excited about getting a new WRPG from Bethesda, and this other group that I don't relate, who apparently wishes the game was less like Skyrim/Fallout and more of a space exploration simulator.

    Please, PLEASE next time you get ready to do a weird genre, dont' take up the time of a top WRPG maker to do so. Hopefully this isn't just a space exploration game, but maintains enough WRPG to actually be a WRPG first and then the cosmetic stickers/parts on your arbitrary spaceship come later for real cash mtx or whatever if they need to upcharge. This will be SUCH a disappointment if this game turns out more like NMS than Skyrim. It's like having Obsidian make Grounded. What a tragic misuse of resources imo.
    Last edited by Zenfoldor; 2022-06-15 at 09:35 PM.

  8. #148
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rageonit View Post
    AFAIK Skyrim had over 300 places to explore, so forgive me for saying "every planet". I will try harder in the future, so you can be less petty. And if you missed the gist of my post, then I'm afraid I can't write it any simpler.
    By 300 locations do you just mean map markers? Because skyrim has quite a few random farms with no NPC’s, one room deep caves with a single bear, or ruined tower with like two mages in it.

    Sure they still count as “places to explore” but they obviously don’t have any depth even on a surface level.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    By 300 locations do you just mean map markers? Because skyrim has quite a few random farms with no NPC’s, one room deep caves with a single bear, or ruined tower with like two mages in it.

    Sure they still count as “places to explore” but they obviously don’t have any depth even on a surface level.
    If you've played it, you should know yourself if it had enough places to visit or if it was bare and empty.

  10. #150
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    I just hope that there is some biome diversity on a single planet. One thing I hated about No Man's Sky is how the entire planet would look exactly the same as the 100m^2 area that you initially landed on. I want to see a planet that has rivers, mountains, oceans, forests, plains, etc.

  11. #151
    Looks ok ish, a bit slow if you will, combat looks off for some reason. The enemies don't register hits at all or something.

    Regarding the planets, i have zero faith there because of the wording Howard used. "From barren but resource heavy ice balls to goldilock planets with life." So 990 barren iceballs with resources, and 7 planets with animals, and 3 planets with humans and settlements.

    Hey they are there but you just need to find them!

  12. #152
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rageonit View Post
    If you've played it, you should know yourself if it had enough places to visit or if it was bare and empty.
    I can’t say I was counting the number of map markers or which ones actually had things to find and which were just empty last time I played. It could very well have 300 locations of note, or it could have 150 and then another 150 map markers that might as well not be there.

    The latter would obviously make a jump to 1000 far less likely.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  13. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaotic1962 View Post
    The enemies don't register hits at all or something.
    Can you explain what that means? I've seen a few comment on how enemies aren't reacting to being shot.

    Are people expecting them to rattle around like an actor in an 80's movie with each bullet? Am I completely misunderstanding?
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  14. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by Poppincaps View Post
    Looks good, only thing I'm worried about is the 1000 planets thing. Seems like an arbitrary number to generate hype and the reality will be a lot of procedurally generated worlds with barely anything of note on them.
    To be fair, that's what most planets are. So having 99.9% junk planets is at least immersive. But you're right, it's a meaningless number to hype with and it's going to lead to a lot of people (who arguably should know better by now) being disappointed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Floofi View Post
    I just hope that there is some biome diversity on a single planet. One thing I hated about No Man's Sky is how the entire planet would look exactly the same as the 100m^2 area that you initially landed on. I want to see a planet that has rivers, mountains, oceans, forests, plains, etc.
    I think you can forget that. That's something Star Citizen hasn't even started on yet even though they plan to and they're way ahead in the (semi-)procedural race.

  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by Iain View Post
    To be fair, that's what most planets are. So having 99.9% junk planets is at least immersive. But you're right, it's a meaningless number to hype with and it's going to lead to a lot of people (who arguably should know better by now) being disappointed.



    I think you can forget that. That's something Star Citizen hasn't even started on yet even though they plan to and they're way ahead in the (semi-)procedural race.
    Star citizen is way ahead in fuck all my friend.
    Well they are way ahead with their personal bank balances after all the continued scamming of morons around the world.

  16. #156
    You're half right. In that Star Citizen does seem to be vaporware for the half of it. But at the same time the game is making considerable steps towards procedurally generated content that most games, including No Man's Sky, don't have yet:



    Especially 15 minutes in it gets good. It shows how the planets are semi-procedural. It shows that designer can 'paint' characteristics of a planet into a selected surface, and then their software attempts interprets the hand-painting as an algorithm that needs to be repeated across the surface. Not the pattern itself, but the general intention. This means that repeating the hand-painted characters don't just turn into tile after tile of similar patterns, but rather that the patterns develop on themselves and start leading a life on their own.
    Last edited by Iain; 2022-06-16 at 03:09 PM.

  17. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    I can’t say I was counting the number of map markers or which ones actually had things to find and which were just empty last time I played. It could very well have 300 locations of note, or it could have 150 and then another 150 map markers that might as well not be there.

    The latter would obviously make a jump to 1000 far less likely.
    Why would you have to count it? I have 300 hours playerd in Skyrim, which makes it sound like I had lots to do.
    I don't understand why is it so important to fixate on the numbers. If there are enough places to visit, what's the difference if there's 500, 1000, or 100000 procedurally generated, boring and empty planets? Why would you visit them, and why does it make you fear the game will feel empty? If you can generate procedurally 1 planet, you can generate any number of them - it takes no effort what so ever. Those planets are playgrounds for the modders (and for you, if you're into it). That's the sole reason of their existence. If you don't care about mods, modding and building, you can pretty much ignore them.
    But use your imagination. If this game happens to be popular amongst the players and modders (Skyrim was, and still is), you have the potential to have, in a few years after the release, the biggest game ever created. It's a natural evolution of the Scrolls game design - modding was always an important part of it, but you were restricted by the world. Now you're not. It opens up endless possibilities. And that's the point.
    You don't care about that? Stick to the content that was hand-crafted.

  18. #158
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rageonit View Post
    Why would you have to count it? I have 300 hours playerd in Skyrim, which makes it sound like I had lots to do.
    I’m not the one who brought up 1000 hand made dungeons/city's or pointed to skyrim having 300 I can’t tell you why the number matters to you.

    the quantity doesn’t matter to me I care about the quality of locations which is why I brought up the question of how many of those 300 locations have any real depth.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  19. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zenfoldor View Post
    1000+ planets just hits my fomo but also reminds me of grinding. This article is the exact opposite of how I feel:

    https://culturedvultures.com/starfie...-in-whats-new/

    In the article, it seems to me, the person wants a space exploration game with ship and base building, and laments the parts of the game that are carryovers from wrpgs. I just want a WRPG. Base and ship "customization" beyond practical upgrades are absolutely meaningless to me. They are cosmetics.

    It seems like there are at least two groups who want starfield. The traditional group who is excited about getting a new WRPG from Bethesda, and this other group that I don't relate, who apparently wishes the game was less like Skyrim/Fallout and more of a space exploration simulator.

    Please, PLEASE next time you get ready to do a weird genre, dont' take up the time of a top WRPG maker to do so. Hopefully this isn't just a space exploration game, but maintains enough WRPG to actually be a WRPG first and then the cosmetic stickers/parts on your arbitrary spaceship come later for real cash mtx or whatever if they need to upcharge. This will be SUCH a disappointment if this game turns out more like NMS than Skyrim. It's like having Obsidian make Grounded. What a tragic misuse of resources imo.
    Seems like, to me, you could have both.

    And in fact, you could quite *easily* have both *specifically* in a Bethesda made game *because* of that modding-friendly environment. (as long as that is still true, anyway)

    One could take that WRPG and ALSO have space exploration AND ship/base building with customizations. The WRPG would be the base work and 'main game' (or at least, the biggest content chunk of the game developed by the game devs, themselves) with the basic ship/base/building framekwork included - but also designed with big enough 'spaces', or enough planets (even if procedurally generated and/or just resource planets to start with), and the freedom of "elder scrolls" level modding to then develop it into a fully flushed out 'dual-genre' type of game.

    I mean Skyrim has hundreds of hours of player developed "WRPG" quest-lines with fully fleshed out cities and NPCs for the entire 'quest'. Dozens of varieties of player designed housing, decorations, etc. The only thing this game has to do is provide the groundwork and give the full "creation engine" access for modders (as they have in Skyrim) and we would *definitely* all then get a WRPG + Space SIM Build game cross-genre experience.

    It would be much harder (or much slower?) for the modding community to build the WRPG into a base Space Exploration/Build SIM game; but the other way around wouldn't be all that much of a stretch.

    To me - its Bethesda - so if they stay 'with what they know' we're almost guaranteed this game is more "Skyrim in Space" than "Star Citizen/NMS" and the people expecting this game to be otherwise are just not looking at that history. However, I also acknowledge that Bethesda may actually do something not-their-norm -- but I too would be disappointed, and would not purchase, a "space building sim" only game.

    But if they were smart - they'd capitalize on how 'easily' they could have both here!
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  20. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by Koriani View Post
    Seems like, to me, you could have both.

    And in fact, you could quite *easily* have both *specifically* in a Bethesda made game *because* of that modding-friendly environment. (as long as that is still true, anyway)

    One could take that WRPG and ALSO have space exploration AND ship/base building with customizations. The WRPG would be the base work and 'main game' (or at least, the biggest content chunk of the game developed by the game devs, themselves) with the basic ship/base/building framekwork included - but also designed with big enough 'spaces', or enough planets (even if procedurally generated and/or just resource planets to start with), and the freedom of "elder scrolls" level modding to then develop it into a fully flushed out 'dual-genre' type of game.

    I mean Skyrim has hundreds of hours of player developed "WRPG" quest-lines with fully fleshed out cities and NPCs for the entire 'quest'. Dozens of varieties of player designed housing, decorations, etc. The only thing this game has to do is provide the groundwork and give the full "creation engine" access for modders (as they have in Skyrim) and we would *definitely* all then get a WRPG + Space SIM Build game cross-genre experience.

    It would be much harder (or much slower?) for the modding community to build the WRPG into a base Space Exploration/Build SIM game; but the other way around wouldn't be all that much of a stretch.

    To me - its Bethesda - so if they stay 'with what they know' we're almost guaranteed this game is more "Skyrim in Space" than "Star Citizen/NMS" and the people expecting this game to be otherwise are just not looking at that history. However, I also acknowledge that Bethesda may actually do something not-their-norm -- but I too would be disappointed, and would not purchase, a "space building sim" only game.

    But if they were smart - they'd capitalize on how 'easily' they could have both here!
    I will say this, if this game could deliver both, I would completely eat crow and say I was worried for nothing. If the game is good, I will be so hyped. I think my worry is only so high because I am excited for what the game COULD become.

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