2H Frost QNA

[Deonora]

Such a waste that people keep asking for this. Spec has clearly been made into a dual wield build / class fantasy. I honestly think you guys can keep asking for this until you are blue in the face and they wont change it. If you want to play with a 2 hander play unholy, ret or arms.

Frost is an should stay a dual wield 1 hander class

[Deleted]

I believe it would be easier if Frost went 2H going forward. And then, have the Artifact appearances as the 1H transmog options. This is opposed to doing it the other way around. I think this path would be our best chance to have our cake and eat it too.

It's almost as if the 2H camp forgets there are players, way more judging by number of DIFFERENT people screaming for the change, and relative to total DK players, that enjoy the dual-wielding and don't want a change. This is also almost certainly why Blizzard has ignored the incessant, annoying chiming.

- - - Updated - - -

I still have hope and believe Blizzard will do the right thing.
From what I understand their original reasoning for getting rid of it in the first place was to make room for Legion weapons but since they're gone whats the issue now?

This is amazing, 'I still have hope' and that hope relates to Legion artifacts being the driver behind going dual-wield - well, the artifacts are gone, the new expansion has been announced, we are closing in on pre-patch, multiple rounds of changes have occurred, and still no sign of 2H - these multiple signs should tell you to give up, not have hope. SMFH.

[Vichan]

I don't get what all the whining is about, You literally get the same exact play style of 2h frost in legion, it's not like we're playing the howling blast-frost strike 2 button spec that dual wield was before

[caervek]

I don't get what all the whining is about

Frost was primarily a 2H spec for 8 years then then lazy devs removed it as an option (and did the same thing for a number of other specs) in Legion to make their work easier, now lazy devs in BFA can't be bothered to fix it, people are mad (just like the DW Fury warriors, the Gladiator spec warriors, etc).

[Deleted]

I do not understand this mentality I see in a lot of people.
What is wrong with having options?

I don't mean to say that gameplay should change with the reintroduction of two handed weapons for frost death knights or any other class that could previously wield different weapon types, but let it be just a cosmetic addition, a transmog.
Why not let people play/look the way the want to?

[Acelius]

I don't get what all the whining is about, You literally get the same exact play style of 2h frost in legion, it's not like we're playing the howling blast-frost strike 2 button spec that dual wield was before

It's all about aesthetics. Alot of people, myself included, prefer a large weapon more than two smaller ones. Hence the playstyle should stay exactly the same with the same output, but a glyph or an option to have the visual of a 2H weapon would be nice.

I have no doubt that they are able to do it if they wish.

[Cosmic Janitor]

But sure, go ahead, ask. It will still be a better question than some of the stupid things asked every time.

You mean the Jesse Cox troll question if Jaina really is not a dreadlord and the usual fare of questions that could be solved with 20 second google searches aren't the best use of that segment? I'm not sure I can follow that reasoning.

[Nayami]

I am disappointed OP. We should be aiming for dual-wielding 2-handers!

[Kaver]

Waste of a question slot to be blunt.

Blizzard has made it very clear with their actions that want classes to not have so much overlap with their identities. This includes weapon combinations not only is annoying to balance but they want different classes and specs to use different weapons.

People who dont main a death knight should really go away from this discussion..

[Cosmic Janitor]

Eh yeah, that's what I said. I'd far rather listen to them explain why they will not do 2H frost (because that's actually a design decision worth exploring even if I know the answer will be they won't) than hear them talking about jaina's true nathrezim identity. because let's face it, the latter question still gets asked. . .

That was sarcasm on my part .
We all know that they will ask and (even worse) answer some of these utterly useless questions that give zero insight into the matter discussed.

[Claymore]

Personally, I think Blizzard needs to bring back 2hand Frost, and if they are truly unable to support both playstyles, then drop DW'ing. There are more than enough classes who can dual-wield now, and Death Knights have never really "fit" dual-wielding to begin with. It just doesn't suit their themes or fantasy kit, and in Wrath's Alpha, they didn't even have the *option* to dual-wield until a few people asked to try and make it work.

[skitzin]

People who dont main a death knight should really go away from this discussion..

Well, I do main a death knight so I think I will stay.

And despite your obvious disagreement with my comment, and your thrilling, well thought out argument against it, my thought's on the matter haven't changed. It is a waste of a question slot for the fact they will either not address it at all or the answer you will get is the one you already have - "No".

Good talk, let's do it again sometime.

I've been playing my Death Knight since their inception..actually no since Wrath beta. I've played 2H frost in every expansion except Legion for reasons already known to everyone. I fell in love with my class because of everything it was since the beginning including 2H frost.This entitles me to speak on what I would like to get out of my class fantasy; So in a of matter speaking...yes I do believe I have the "moral high ground" to request a simple re-insertion of a something so simple that had no bearing on gameplay but a style and thematic touch to the class people enjoyed. I simply have no desire to play DW as that's not what I envision for my decade old class.

Furthermore, I'm very well aware of Blizzard's goal to emphasize uniqueness amongst the different roles and specializations for each class. I'm not really sure how restricting Frost to DW accomplishes that goal meanwhile tons of other classes can use two-handed weapons in multiple roles. With this logic that means Unholy should be the only DK spec to use 2H and Blood should use a shield huh? It's so stupid.

Your argument that asking for 2H frost back is a waste of a question for the QNA simply on the basis of what they're doing in BFA? Never once have they ever given us a proper answer on if will ever be brought back or not and with the overwhelming support to do so I can see them changing their minds on it. Just in a couple days time we were able to get Pillar of Frost back despite being removed in an earlier build because of the near-unanimous dislike of its removal.

Not to be rude but you sound like the type of person to just go with the flow instead of thinking outside of the norm or developing your own ideas. It's perfectly fine to be against what Blizzard wants to do and not just cater to whatever they want because they said so.

My point is that this matter has nothing to do with morality at all.

Blizzard's decision is not a matter of morality - it simply is what it is and nothing more.

You are free to disagree with it as much as you like. And if you claim you have the moral high ground that means you rocked up to the entirely wrong battle field when you should be two fields over in the amoral field. Businesses and the decisions they make regarding their products are not matters of morality - they are amoral.

[Futhark]

Usually in an argument, its hard to understand the other side's POV because of personal convictions. Allow me to use an analogy:

Let's say the devs discovered Demon Hunter's Havoc would mechanically work better as a 2Hd spec, so they changed it. How do you think Havoc players would respond, and why?

related image:

[Ophenia]

Firstly, the "right thing"? Really? Your desire to have a weapon playstyle reinstated is the "right thing"? I love how you assume that you have the moral high ground on the issue at all lol.

The "right thing" is obviously to let people chose by allowing Frost DKs (among others) to chose their weapons. It doesn't change anything in-game, except 2H hitting harder but slower than dual-wielding. Easy enough to code (every single game in the world does that).
This way, if you fantasize about a Mace/Sword Death Knight, well, you can. If you fantasize about a polearm Death Knight, you can.
But no, your mighty Death Knight, resurrected from the dead, able to wield 2H-Axes on one spec, suddenly forgets how to do that in Frost. He can only manage one-handed stuff because he's too weak probably.

That would be the same as locking Fire Mages to Swords from now on, because "hey Felo'melorn".

[tru]

+1from me op and a repeat question just to annoy them.

[jellmoo]

Reworking the spec to include both options may simply be more work than Blizzard is prepared to do, and runs the risk of balance issues on multiple levels.

As others have mentioned, I think the real solution is to make changes to the transmog system to allow players to better play the class/spec identity they want. Having the ability to bring back things like 2h Frost, 2h Enh, sword and shield dps and others through a system that doesn't alter the actual behind the scenes mechanics would have a greater net impact on player experience across the classes.

[Kaver]

Well, I do main a death knight so I think I will stay.

And despite your obvious disagreement with my comment, and your thrilling, well thought out argument against it, my thought's on the matter haven't changed. It is a waste of a question slot for the fact they will either not address it at all or the answer you will get is the one you already have - "No".

Good talk, let's do it again sometime.

You seem very interested in the Warlock forum for a main Death Knight... one would think you just switched in the near past.

They also gave us a clear "NO" to legacy servers in the beginning but now we are getting WoW classic because we kept demanding quality. We will never achieve anything with your attitude. If they dont address the question it's a problem and we need to keep ask it... we cant just bend over. It's never a waste of question slots.

I like your little attempt to be "sassy" with the "Good talk, bla bla..." though.

[taek]

could you not make the question more all-purpose instead? how about something along the lines of: will you allow classes to choose which weapontype to use after changing skilldamage to AP rather than weapon dps?

It's not a generic or system question.

Arthas has an important identity to the IP even before WoW was a game. Frost DK using DW one handed weapons is about as offensive as Sylvanas switching from a bow to a 2H Paladin Hammer.

I'm sure a lot of Dks don't care, but to some of us ancient players it's abrasive.

It's much lower effort than when Brewmasters were added to the game. Not only did the MOP developers add a staff with a hanging keg which is a completely new type of weapon, they added a new stance and idle to the game to support it and match the original Brewmaster from WC3.

It really seems Arthas & DK should get more love than it has.

[Clash the DK]

It's almost as if the 2H camp forgets there are players, way more judging by number of DIFFERENT people screaming for the change, and relative to total DK players, that enjoy the dual-wielding and don't want a change. This is also almost certainly why Blizzard has ignored the incessant, annoying chiming.

You assume much.

In reality though, I assure you that Blizzard wants to please it's customers. But there are many variables to any change of this magnitude. I firmly believe they would not re-implement the option to go 2H or DW unless the number results are exactly the same. Meaning they are not going to support sub-specs in any manner going forward. That's just too much trouble.

But with the change to weapons and AP scaling, a pathway is more clear to get this done. Other obstacles stand in the way, such as specific talents. Note that Runic Attenuation was changed and now falls in line. Notice that Inexorable Assault was specifically changed to work with Obliterate and not auto-attacks. But then there is Frostscythe; It's a main hand strike and this is problematic. The question of how to handle Razorice is also in play. Many variables with just Frost alone.

And then realize, if Frost were to get this treatment, surely other melee specs would want and/or expect the same. I personally do not know the situation with all specs that might want/need this treatment. But this is another question. So, this could be a very large under-taking IF they want to accomplish the goal the most natural way within the scope of the game and apply the concept to possible multiple specs.

But then we have more dirty options to deliver the dream. With the transmog system, there are ways to bend the rules. I just don't know if they want to go down that path.

So with all that being said, I assure you that Blizzard has all of this in mind and genuinely wants to deliver for the player base. But, there is not an easy nor fast solution. There is code work that would be needed for each solution and time is precious. These are more variables that will decide what happens before the next xpac drops.

The fact that the Devs have not come out and said one way or the other just means they are working on things and keeping their options open. Maybe they decide it's appropriate that Frost gets Titan's Grip to meet everybody in the middle. Who knows. But, we'll see what happens soon.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Reworking the spec to include both options may simply be more work than Blizzard is prepared to do, and runs the risk of balance issues on multiple levels.

Weapon scaling has already been changed to AP across the board. The few things that once benefitted from fast attack speed have already been changed to PPM. The one remaining talent that profited (somewhat) from fast attack speeds has been replaced. All that is left is to make it possible to have 2 rune enchants on 1 weapon. A 2h weapon takes up 2 slots, make it so that you can enchant the 'virtual' off-hand weapon slot, just like you already could with artefact weapons, there done. 2h is back.