Classic update. It will be on 1.12 and it will be on battle.net :)

[khalltusk]

i personally think they should go all the way - retune classes and redesign fight - aka allow all possible debuffs but tune the bosses much higher and harder.

i thing this way people would be much much happeir overall instead having radi filled with warriors/rogues/mages/priests only .

I am not sure re-tuning classes is the right way to go forward. For one it will change the experience a lot more from what it was and naturally a lot of people would be upset over it. Boss HP/damage can be adjusted to make sure the difficulty stays roughly the same. But adjusting the classes can cause a lot of balance issues.

I personally don't mind either way. I will be interested to see which direction they take on it.

[Bluespiderman57]

PVE content raid clear will be all about the mindset of the guild as a whole.

Let's go like this for the sake of the example:
Hardcore guild will clear everything in a month. (by 2nd month most will unsub since they have no pve raiding content to do)
Semi-hardcore in between 1 and 3 months.
Casuals in six months.

You as an individual will look for a guild at the pace that you want to play.

Now we will have to see how the mindset of the people that play classic will be. If the bigger percentage will be in the semi hardcore and hardcore there is no reason to release raids every 6 months. They will lose a shitton of subs that most likely aren't willingly to return every 6 months for a month of "progress" for the sake of killing Nefarian or Kel'thuzad let's say.

If they will cater to the casual plebs that need months to do leveling and they are the 90% of the playerbase c'est la vie they will some 10% hardcore subs and that's it. Imo they will just release them all from the start and that's it. With AQ gates quest being on zero so you can start progressing on it from day one if you want to travel there and use 100 plants for the progress.

Again man, if you don't spend MONTHS farming gear, you won't make it past the first 2 bosses in BWL, much less AQ20/40. Doesn't matter how "hardcore" you are. If you don't have the numbers, it ain't happening.

[Deleted]

If you don't consider a failure abandoning a strategy completly that lead a game to be as sucessfull as it once was then i don't know what failure is.

Yes, WoW is still the only(?) alive MMO out there, and i still do play it from time to time, but being alive and mantaining 5M(?) active ppl worldwide when they had a paradigm that led them to once have 10 to 12M active players, is considered a sucess? I'm not arguing wow is dead, it's far from it, and the cash cow will still be milked for years to come, but when you compare it to what it once was and what it could have been if they had mantained the same principles it's hard to not consider it a failure.

Seems like you don't know what failure is. There actually was a game that was built on the original game's principles, but enhanced with new graphics and a more dynamic combat system. It was even built by the same people who built the original wow. I believe it was called Wildstar, but nobody even remembers.

You're making the mistake of assuming the wrong counterfactual. The more likely alternative to the current state of the game is not 10-12 million subs at its peak, it's ZERO. Blizzard recognized the need for change to keep players interested and went with it. There's no chance in hell anyone would have played vanilla wow without changes for 14 years; not even the classic fans (which I am one of).

Will I play on the new vanilla servers? For sure. Will I play it for long? That remains to be seen. Memory is a tricky thing.

[Charge me Doctor]

I played as a Frost Mage (Rank 11) against Warriors all the time and wasn't even aware you could do that. Do you have any sources for these numbers?

Since PvP happened either in front of IF (where there wasn't anything to bug out the charge), in open world (where it was so infrequently it didn't really matter all that much) or in BGs (where one single kill really wasn't that impactful in the grand scheme of things) I don't see how this would be a big deal. Warriors were terrifying not on their own, but because they always had a healer behind them.

If you jumped after warrior used an intercept but before intercept stun landed (aka, lag, which will be obsolete in classic, which is one of my points about it being not the same), warrior is moved towards your original location, while you keep your jump movement while stunned, because stuns didn't pin you to the ground.

PvP was so clunky back then, especially fighting rogues when they glitch in and out while sprinted, you see their model outside of frost nova range, but they still somehow hit you with melee and apply fucking crippling poison. I was so happy when they improved their netcode to stop that bullshit. But it was part of vanilla, and if they will use modern infrastructure this will be gone. It will be changed.

[Deleted]

Again man, if you don't spend MONTHS farming gear, you won't make it past the first 2 bosses in BWL, much less AQ20/40. Doesn't matter how "hardcore" you are. If you don't have the numbers, it ain't happening.

I'm amazed how many people don't seem to get this. All your skill is irrelevant if all you have to express it with is one button (hi frost mages) and the reason you can't kill the boss is because your tank doesn't survive. The first attempts at MC will be done by undergeared hardcore players who'll see their tank hit the floor because all of their healers will be oom before the DPS can get it down.

I'm genuinely curious though how long it will take for the first guild to kill Patchwerk. You'll then be able to compare their gear to what people had when they firstkilled it back then, giving you an estimate for the group's skill difference and finally settling this retarded argument.

[Bluespiderman57]

All your skill is irrelevant if all you have to express it with is one button (hi frost mages) and the reason you can't kill the boss is because your tank doesn't survive.

You're damn right frost mages. Love'em. So many fun abilities to play with.

[voidillusion]

Seems like you don't know what failure is. There actually was a game that was built on the original game's principles, but enhanced with new graphics and a more dynamic combat system. It was even built by the same people who built the original wow. I believe it was called Wildstar, but nobody even remembers.

You're making the mistake of assuming the wrong counterfactual. The more likely alternative to the current state of the game is not 10-12 million subs at its peak, it's ZERO. Blizzard recognized the need for change to keep players interested and went with it. There's no chance in hell anyone would have played vanilla wow without changes for 14 years; not even the classic fans (which I am one of).

Will I play on the new vanilla servers? For sure. Will I play it for long? That remains to be seen. Memory is a tricky thing.

I just hate when ppl throw the "Wildstar" card... I've played when it launched and quality wise it was miles away from the gameplay experience wow provided at any given time throughout it's history. Maybe new graphics and a fancy enhanced combat system isn't what ppl want after all, or there where other factors hindering these 2 things.

Anyway, to the point, ofc blizzard had to keep changing the game, throwing several expansions and not changing stuff would make the game stale obviously. Still they didnt have to do it almost breaking up completly with some things that gave depth to the experience, and they surely didnt have to do it by orienting the game continuosly to an almost solo experience.

[Atherions]

I played as a Frost Mage (Rank 11) against Warriors all the time and wasn't even aware you could do that. Do you have any sources for these numbers?

Since PvP happened either in front of IF (where there wasn't anything to bug out the charge), in open world (where it was so infrequently it didn't really matter all that much) or in BGs (where one single kill really wasn't that impactful in the grand scheme of things) I don't see how this would be a big deal. Warriors were terrifying not on their own, but because they always had a healer behind them.

This is the first video i found of it on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yFhrdirFQY its from early Cata but the principal was the same back in vanilla. It was fixed a little later in Cata where blizzard added a second charge to your charge if you did not land at your target.

[Flarelaine]

Toggle is out of discussion, and I already said this even in this thread.

That means nothing beyond the fact that you don't want a toggle. Unless you are Ion, you are not the arbiter on anything in Classic.

[Gungnir]

Alternatively, some of us like the new animations, or didn't notice a particularly large difference, or are maybe just less critical in general. There are these things called 'other opinions' that people can have. If it was bad enough you felt the need to spend $200 to race-change, that is perfectly fine, but it's also fully opinion based. 'Research' doesn't really fit into this.

Research does fit into this because for some reason, the assumption was made that the "old models" option was actually true to the old models, which it unfortunately isn't.
And yes, it is entirely subjective and for me the race is bad enough to warrant me spending a lot of money to just not look at it anymore.

[Alkizon]

That means nothing beyond the fact that you don't want a toggle. Unless you are Ion, you are not the arbiter on anything in Classic.

Well, Ion probably have just very mediocre role in Classic questions as me do. But it's not just "I want", but more like "rules require", and this has already been said more than once. It's simple. I'm sure you read whole message, but as usual you decided to ignore it.

- in-game mechanics can affect gameplay/world (customization is right decision)
- your personal external settings aren't (your favorite toggle is wrong decision)
(moreover, when players start to deal with this personally, this is violation of TOS - but when Blizzard begins to break own rules - this is good, and they want a serious attitude to themselves after that? => toxic/troll community <=> toxic/troll developers (circle closed))

[Deleted]

I just hate when ppl throw the "Wildstar" card... I've played when it launched and quality wise it was miles away from the gameplay experience wow provided at any given time throughout it's history. Maybe new graphics and a fancy enhanced combat system isn't what ppl want after all, or there where other factors hindering these 2 things.

Fair point. I heard the launch was pretty botched, didn't actually play myself back then. Also, Wildstar had the massive problem that WoW already existed.

Anyway, to the point, ofc blizzard had to keep changing the game, throwing several expansions and not changing stuff would make the game stale obviously. Still they didnt have to do it almost breaking up completly with some things that gave depth to the experience, and they surely didnt have to do it by orienting the game continuosly to an almost solo experience.

Couldn't agree more. My top five points that killed the original's spirit:

1. Flying (congratz your world is now empty)
2. Group finder (killed the requirement to be social to do content)
3. Transmogs (disentangled the rarity of rewards from their visual appearance's signalling function)
4. Sharding (wiped the possibility to become familiar with your server's community)
5. Difficulty levels (eliminated the reward of actually seeing new content for the first time)

[Alkizon]

Katsu2881
4. Sharding (wiped the possibility to become familiar with your server's community)

You mean CRZ and such stuff, because sharding and phasing make shared world fragmented where it won't suppose to be, thereby allowing attackers to violate/modify basic game rules (it's like legal glitch, community integrity violated because of this to a lesser degree).

---- Edit ----
In theory, shards can only be used in sanctuaries, where combat/active interactions aren't possible (except for RP servers), for example - because of overpopulation, but it still beter should be avoided (not sure, but as I remember friends said that Lineage has such organization). And phasing can be used in dungeons, as element of encounter (boss battle for example or spatial magic). In open world, this could be used only when character is actually in another "world" (I have already cited example life/death), but in no way as an indicator of character progress. Сharacter progress shouldn't influence world around him, only his own parameters. Server progress is important, because it's indicator of server's all community progress (same for any representative), and not vice versa. Therefore, if there is situation that character influences world, than it affects the whole world, and not only his own... and become server hero/villain! - that's the only way how it permissible.

If we simplify all this, then we can say that Classic WoW had and should continue to have sandbox rules (and it was developed precisely because it had base in form of Warcraft as lore component - this was not found in any of other sandboxes before it and this was its great success).
I.e .: sandbox rules + good lore = win

This is how I see it myself.

[Kymet]

Again man, if you don't spend MONTHS farming gear, you won't make it past the first 2 bosses in BWL, much less AQ20/40. Doesn't matter how "hardcore" you are. If you don't have the numbers, it ain't happening.

You must consider the fact that back in Vanilla even hardcore guilds didn't know how to optimize gear. Just look at how players on (true) Vanilla private servers are geared with BiS, using a lot of rare items instead of epics, sets are mostly useless, ecc... . I'm not saying it will take a week to clear everything but gearing up will be more straightforward, especially nowadays with all the resources and guides available online for everyone.

[Deleted]

You mean CRZ and such stuff, because sharding and phasing make shared world fragmented where it won't suppose to be, thereby allowing attackers to violate/modify basic game rules (it's like legal glitch, community integrity violated because of this to a lesser degree).

Proabably. That thing where someone from the same server is in the same place at the same time as you and you still don't see another. I get why it makes sense, but not having a hub where you frequently run into people, even if it's crowded, sucks.

[Bluespiderman57]

You must consider the fact that back in Vanilla even hardcore guilds didn't know how to optimize gear. Just look at how players on (true) Vanilla private servers are geared with BiS, using a lot of rare items instead of epics, sets are mostly useless, ecc... . I'm not saying it will take a week to clear everything but gearing up will be more straightforward, especially nowadays with all the resources and guides available online for everyone.

I get what you are saying, and yeah, it would take really dedicated raiders only about a week to get their pre-raid BiS after they hit 60. A lot of the BiS items, or at least the next best thing, in classic were weird greens. Hell, I even used some green +frost power shoulders in MC because my BiS dropped from some rare spawn in BRD that no one wanted to kill. But that's different from Dudas is saying. He wants all the content for classic(Ony-Naxx) released all at once so that he can clear it all in a month. I'm just saying that even if they did that, and I don't think they will, it would still take a guild 6 months to a year to get everyone geared up enough for Naxx.

[Echocho]

4. Sharding (wiped the possibility to become familiar with your server's community)

That one actually isn't true (I agree with the rest). Sharding only kicks in when a zone becomes so overcrowded that it affects performance, it then splits the zone up in smaller instances for a period of time until it's no longer required. CRZ on the other hand fucked up things massively.

[Deleted]

That one actually isn't true (I agree with the rest). Sharding only kicks in when a zone becomes so overcrowded that it affects performance, it then splits the zone up in smaller instances for a period of time until it's no longer required. CRZ on the other hand fucked up things massively.

I might have mixed up the technologies there. Yet to both problems the better solution might have been to manage server populations more carefully and keep the social aspects working. The one thing that sticks out every time people become nostalgic is how the world felt "alive" and how they were "being a part of it". My worry is that a lot of the things one might label as "convenience" or "technological improvement" actually have the potential to take the heart out of vanilla again.

[PaterMDx]

That's you. We have streamers and their armies of followers that play 12 hours a day. During launch we'll see 48 hours marathons and stuff. All the big names that will return to Classic will grind so much that they will offer everything for everybody since they are so many. They will just make a guild hundreds will join his guild and they will all stomp everything in their path.

Just because you (aka one guy) has to play for three months to level that doesn't mean hundreds won't reach level maximum in 10 days of played. If they play 12 hours a day they'll be done with leveling in no time. So obviously while you're lvl 27 they'll be farming raids. C'est la vie. If they gate the content those that are hardcore will have nothing to do ingame. They will be finished with raiding by the time you just reach lvl max.

Everyone will play Classic for their own reason. Some want to raid. Some want pvp. Some want leveling. Gating pve raids for many just because you enjoy leveling is not a good idea. If you trully want to progress raids retail is there for you. But I doubt you trully want progress. Most of you just want to carried by the hardcore guys. People will be way more selective nowadays. It won't be like in vanilla where 20 were dedicated and 20 were just doing only the atunement. Guilds will be specialized and hardcore guilds won't bother with people that don't want to be there and do everything they need to or don't have the time to do it.

are you dumb?
you are definitly replying to someone else.
i was lvl 60 first week.
ffs what are you? a casual
i wrote that i played alot back then, and will play even more now if they release it.
Akka was the dude you posted with before, the dude who needed years to clear shit xD

[voidillusion]

are you dumb?
you are definitly replying to someone else.
i was lvl 60 first week.
ffs what are you? a casual
i wrote that i played alot back then, and will play even more now if they release it.
Akka was the dude you posted with before, the dude who needed years to clear shit xD

So you where one of those guys that set a record right? Seing as the record for 60 was around what? 5 to 6 days played, meaning you got to 60 on a week with no sleep! Gzz i guess