Classic update. It will be on 1.12 and it will be on battle.net :)

[Deficineiron]

Ok so your argument is that they want to ensure they keep subscription numbers up for Retail WoW (retention) as historically this has dropped off as they no longer release new content.

You think that they will achieve this, by adding Classic WoW which is entirely OLD content that anyone who played pre-Cata has already played?

I understand what you're trying to argue but from a IP development perspective it doesn't make a lot of sense. I think the most obvious flaw is how the gameplay and experience is MATERIALLY different which is part of the argument for having 2 of the, technically, same game in play. Retention of subscription players requires bringing them something new that they like, or improving on something existing that they have enjoyed. The 2 games are a bridge too far apart in this respect.

I am arguing that is one element of their plan. improve retention rates, particularly with their planned bi-annual content drought.

have you considered how they may try to tie-in classic for retail players? special achievements, special mounts, special transmog, etc? if they don't actually put achievements into classic, there may well be an entire achievement subset for classic within retail, with a whole pile of them essentially requiring level 60.

people actually treat achievements like content and do them. I know it sounds crazy but I have seen it too many times to tell myself otherwise. If they add ach. in retail for classic stuff, there are players who WILL put the time in and do them.

[Chaelexi]

I am arguing that is one element of their plan. improve retention rates, particularly with their planned bi-annual content drought.

have you considered how they may try to tie-in classic for retail players? special achievements, special mounts, special transmog, etc? if they don't actually put achievements into classic, there may well be an entire achievement subset for classic within retail, with a whole pile of them essentially requiring level 60.

people actually treat achievements like content and do them. I know it sounds crazy but I have seen it too many times to tell myself otherwise. If they add ach. in retail for classic stuff, there are players who WILL put the time in and do them.

Hey they could include crappy looking low res transmog for live too.

[Uurdz]

I am arguing that is one element of their plan. improve retention rates, particularly with their planned bi-annual content drought.

have you considered how they may try to tie-in classic for retail players? special achievements, special mounts, special transmog, etc? if they don't actually put achievements into classic, there may well be an entire achievement subset for classic within retail, with a whole pile of them essentially requiring level 60.

people actually treat achievements like content and do them. I know it sounds crazy but I have seen it too many times to tell myself otherwise. If they add ach. in retail for classic stuff, there are players who WILL put the time in and do them.

Have i considered "how they may try to tie-in classic for retail players?" No because I don't think they will. Content drought or no, the solution for that is certainly not Classic servers.

Aware how people treat achievements, and many will consider it offensive that WoW now requires achievements played via other games.

It makes zero financial sense to invest into a game that will cannibalise your existing revenue streams as direct competition.

The only players they want to play Classic are people who want to play Classic and those people won't need any additional motivation.

[Echocho]

So you mean for retail players to move to classic during content drought? Why would they need further motivation other than content drought?

If they can get even half of their subscribers to stay subscribed just one more month because of Classic that will earn them more money than the private server community will earn them from two years worth of concurrent subscription. Since the private server community will play regardless of when the game is released it makes the most sense to release the game at a time when retail subs would start dropping.

[Uurdz]

If they can get even half of their subscribers to stay subscribed just one more month because of Classic that will earn them more money than the private server community will earn them from two years worth of concurrent subscription. Since the private server community will play regardless of when the game is released it makes the most sense to release the game at a time when retail subs would start dropping.

You're mixing up some different ideas there.

When should Blizzard release WoW Classic?
--Should it take into consideration WoW BfA content release schedule?
--Should it take into consideration any other Blizzard game release schedules?
--Are there any competition games coming out at this time we want to beat to market?
--Are there any existing MMORPG games releasing new content at this time that we want to come before or after?

Half of current subscribers x 1 month > All private server community x 24 months
--Ok.

The private server community will play regardless of when the game is released
--Those who are looking to 'scratch the itch' probably already have. If they are still playing, one might question how long they will scratch the itch
--Players who never played on private servers are another market. They may have a limited interest/hype window

It makes most sense to release the game at a time when retail subs would start dropping
--Except this effect MAY result in a dramatic drop in Retail players, having a long-term negative impact on how BfA and future expansions will be perceived.

[Deficineiron]

If they can get even half of their subscribers to stay subscribed just one more month because of Classic that will earn them more money than the private server community will earn them from two years worth of concurrent subscription. Since the private server community will play regardless of when the game is released it makes the most sense to release the game at a time when retail subs would start dropping.

this is exactly what I mean.

We will see further ahead what if any hooks blizzard puts in to try to attract retail interest. Has a blue been asked this anywhere? I bet if they are, the answer will be equivocal.

It makes most sense to release the game at a time when retail subs would start dropping[/B]
--Except this effect MAY result in a dramatic drop in Retail players, having a long-term negative impact on how BfA and future expansions will be perceived.

your model assumes blizzard marketing doesn't have a plan already being worked out for that scenario, too. Design decisions often look like they were done by committee of people who may not all play the game or the area they are changing, but the marketing folks are very, very sharp.

Ultimately, it is a money issue for blizzard - I think with the changes made to the game over the last decade, they have made that quite clear. They will do anything and everything within the framework of their design theory and best values that they feel will make them the most money.

When should Blizzard release WoW Classic?
--Should it take into consideration WoW BfA content release schedule?
--Should it take into consideration any other Blizzard game release schedules?
--Are there any competition games coming out at this time we want to beat to market?
--Are there any existing MMORPG games releasing new content at this time that we want to come before or after?
.

agreed. blizzard always reviews all of those variables in release timing.

[Eroginous]

And why would you be playing a game that has components you hate and dont find entertaining?

Because it's impossible to find the ideal game these days. Everything has elements of design that should be overhauled or done away with completely. Things that serve as contradictory to the goal of having fun.

[Deficineiron]

Because it's impossible to find the ideal game these days. Everything has elements of design that should be overhauled or done away with completely. Things that serve as contradictory to the goal of having fun.

a big part of this, in my opinion, is the development of very, very large publicly traded companies trying to maximize market penetration of their games. This modern game design theory, in essence, makes games that for the most part aren't for traditional gamers - we are viewed as too small a market. Throw in the design values that go along with it, and presume there is some kind of bureaucratic committee making sure actual design ideas meet a set of criteria written by people who have never seen the title being evaluated.

in short, it has gone from 'hey lets make this game that we want to play ourselves' to 'hey the wheel revolution count on the cheese incentivizer for the mice is too low, modify the friction coefficient in the wheel to increase mouse activity/participation. Increase cheese protein ration per serving 5%. Add smell component 8894 to 25% of cheese reward units randomly.'

Once wow starting putting up mid-9 digit annual revenue (and was still growing!!) it was all over, vivendi was going to have to do something to monetize the golden egg goose they had.