They need a better class design team ASAP

[Lex Icon]

I have no clue which talents you are talking about, and by resource management you mean lack of crit and haste in early expansion? You do remember that right now you compare late-expansion feral to early-expansion feral, off course you won't have enough crit to generate CP at the same rate and won't have enough haste to have same energy generation.

it's all detailed in the (ignored)feedback thread on the official forums.

[Shakugan123]

I have no clue which talents you are talking about, and by resource management you mean lack of crit and haste in early expansion? You do remember that right now you compare late-expansion feral to early-expansion feral, off course you won't have enough crit to generate CP at the same rate and won't have enough haste to have same energy generation.

In terms of feral aren't they losing both a flat 20%(minimum) crit on shred and an additional +60 energy over 3 seconds (minimum) from artifact traits. Both of which definitely being a nerf to resource generation, even once gear got to the same point. Though there are other resource traits from the azerite gear for feral atm, though considering I don't play feral I'm unsure as to whether or not it's any decent or not.

As much as I'm slowly enjoying where some specs are going in BFA, the loss of artifacts and some of the additions that came with them is going to absolutely hurt some specs. If it's not hurting them numerically, it's going to be hurting them in terms of playstyle.

[Charge me Doctor]

In terms of feral aren't they losing both a flat 20%(minimum) crit on shred and an additional +60 energy over 3 seconds (minimum) from artifact traits. Both of which definitely being a nerf to resource generation, even once gear got to the same point. Though there are other resource traits from the azerite gear for feral atm, though considering I don't play feral I'm unsure as to whether or not it's any decent or not.

As much as I'm slowly enjoying where some specs are going in BFA, the loss of artifacts and some of the additions that came with them is going to absolutely hurt some specs. If it's not hurting them numerically, it's going to be hurting them in terms of playstyle.

Well, from my experience i haven't felt energy-starved most of the time, because of tigers fury resets while leveling and in dungeons. CP build-up feels slow, that's why i dropped savage roar from my talents and grabbed brutal slash for convenience, but gameplay overall, across all the classes (except fury) feels way slower and it's kinda refreshing to go back to how slow wow used to be. I'm very interested in what they'll make out of it.

Anyways, it feels good to play a spec that changes from what it is in legion, off course removal of artifacts feels like your toys are getting taken away, but you have just to get over it and move on, you can't get changes to a spec and keep them the same way they was (which is my main complaint about fucking fire, it's literally same legion fire mage, they even brought over legendary equip bonuses into talents. The ones that are mandatory for DPS are now talents. Yeah, talents give you "choice" my ass)

[4dahorde]

Oh look, another "my opinion is right and anyone who disagrees is wrong" thread.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. That does NOT make it the ONLY opinion.

I just love to read through the "you're wrong, no you're wrong, no...you are wrong" threads. The world is going to shit and people are wouold rather argue whos opinion is correct on a game forum.

[Shakugan123]

Well, from my experience i haven't felt energy-starved most of the time, because of tigers fury resets while leveling and in dungeons. CP build-up feels slow, that's why i dropped savage roar from my talents and grabbed brutal slash for convenience, but gameplay overall, across all the classes (except fury) feels way slower and it's kinda refreshing to go back to how slow wow used to be. I'm very interested in what they'll make out of it.

Anyways, it feels good to play a spec that changes from what it is in legion, off course removal of artifacts feels like your toys are getting taken away, but you have just to get over it and move on, you can't get changes to a spec and keep them the same way they was (which is my main complaint about fucking fire, it's literally same legion fire mage, they even brought over legendary equip bonuses into talents. The ones that are mandatory for DPS are now talents. Yeah, talents give you "choice" my ass)

Yeah I'd like some change to specs during expansions, it's just that the leap from legion to BFA for some classes feels dreadful compared to other classes that feel rather nice. Probably because some specs were designed almost entirely around the artifacts and weren't better refitted for the loss of them. Though I'm not saying to give those spec's artifact traits, since that only delays the problem of them being overly reliant on them. Same with legendary effects.

It's one of the biggest reasons enhancement shamans are in a pretty terrible state at the moment in terms of gameplay.

Also talents have never been a choice and will very likely never be one.

[Dizson]

Oh look, another "my opinion is right and anyone who disagrees is wrong" thread.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. That does NOT make it the ONLY opinion.

I just love to read through the "you're wrong, no you're wrong, no...you are wrong" threads. The world is going to shit and people are wouold rather argue whos opinion is correct on a game forum.

I mean thats what we are doing here, share our opinions? You are visiting a game forum too, how absurd you are, go make some rockets to advance the human species.

[Charge me Doctor]

Yeah I'd like some change to specs during expansions, it's just that the leap from legion to BFA for some classes feels dreadful and for others feels fine. Probably because some specs were designed almost entirely around the artifacts and weren't better refitted for the loss of them.

Also talents have never been a choice and will very likely never be one.

Can you point me towards some specs that feel dreadful for you? So i could check them out? Because i've tried everything i'm interested in and found them enjoyable. There was nothing on the level of having to swing 3 times before you can use mortal strike, or using eviscerate wasn't worth it over using sinister strike, or using fireball 8 times in a row without any chain crits (those things i consider actually dreadful, not feeling of slowed gameplay compared to legion)

[Nerovar]

Which doesn't matter because he's right and you're wrong," Opinions are invalid. Stop being a kid, Its okay to be wrong. Saying WoD classes was good makes anything you say total shitposting tier and no thats not my opinion thats pure fact.



I agree for sure and right on the nail.

Yeah, that's pretty cheap bait right there.

[beanman12345]

I blame Celestalon not the current team.

[Shakugan123]

Can you point me towards some specs that feel dreadful for you? So i could check them out? Because i've tried everything i'm interested in and found them enjoyable. There was nothing on the level of having to swing 3 times before you can use mortal strike, or using eviscerate wasn't worth it over using sinister strike, or using fireball 8 times in a row without any chain crits (those things i consider actually dreadful, not feeling of slowed gameplay compared to legion)

I'm not really referring to slowness in gameplay as being terrible, The most notable two that are pretty awful at the moment are the two shaman dps specs, mostly enhancement due to how heavily entwined they are to their artifact traits at the moment. That and some of the GCD changes feel terrible, like energizing elixir for WW. Which feels punishing to use due to the GCD applied to it, even if it isn't really punishing.

For the most part I think BFA is getting better than legion for most of the classes though.

[natpick]

Classes are fine.

Aslong as they have interesting sets/talents on that azerite gear.

A lot of people lack vision. Legion was in a terrible state. BfA is in a good state. The classes do look a bit on the basic side baseline, but the talents give it more complexity if you so wish. Add the azerite bonuses on top of it and you got varied and playable classes that don't depend on the added system to function like they did in Legion.

Btw, as far as being 3 or 4 buttons in the main rotation, it's always been the case. It is not new.

what a load of bullshit,how long have you played the game for?only last couple expansions have wittled the talents down to a 3-4 button rotaion before this we had lots of choice.some crap choice yes but choice non the less.

[Deleted]

It seems like everyone's concern and why people are not going to buy BfA or drop it fast is because of class design, the game came to be a HoTS/Diablo type clone in term of class design, where you spam 4 spells and these spells are realy boring. The fact that class design/balance has been objectively shit for 3 exp says something. Why can't we just get back to BC/WoTLK level skills?

Why cant we go back to Warlocks spamming SHADOWBOLTS FOR FIVE MINUTES ?
Why cant we go back to Mages spamming FIREBALL FOR FIVE MINUTES ?
Why cant we go back to Priest spamming FLASH HEAL and CANCEL IT AT 90% LIFE FOR FIVE MINUTES ?

go take a look at each Class in each Version of the Game and take a CLOSE LOOK at their Rotation

people like you should just be quiet

[Raetary]

I mean thats what we are doing here, share our opinions?

sharing your opinion is one thing.

acting like your opinion is all that matters and everything else is wrong is another.

[Shakugan123]

Why cant we go back to Warlocks spamming SHADOWBOLTS FOR FIVE MINUTES ?
Why cant we go back to Mages spamming FIREBALL FOR FIVE MINUTES ?
Why cant we go back to Priest spamming FLASH HEAL and CANCEL IT AT 90% LIFE FOR FIVE MINUTES ?

go take a look at each Class in each Version of the Game and take a CLOSE LOOK at their Rotation

people like you should just be quiet

Hey now, at least one of the warlocks occasionally used a curse. That extra button breaks up the monotony of shadowbolts for 5 minutes clearly. If you had more than one lock though, the rest of them got carpal tunnel syndrome.

[Vynestra]

It seems like everyone's concern and why people are not going to buy BfA or drop it fast is because of class design, the game came to be a HoTS/Diablo type clone in term of class design, where you spam 4 spells and these spells are realy boring. The fact that class design/balance has been objectively shit for 3 exp says something. Why can't we just get back to BC/WoTLK level skills?

yeah lets go back to wotlk ret where you keybind all your abilities to one button, place all those one buttons on your bar, and smash your head into your keyboard and kill anyone and everyone.


sounds good.

[FelPlague]

You might not like them but that doesn’t make them objectively shit I think a lot of the classes are fine or better then they were befor.

Demo, survival, fury and MM feel amazing, have you seen this fucking shit? every time i use it i scream DAKADAKADAKADAKADAKA!!!

[Accendor]

Classes are fine.

Aslong as they have interesting sets/talents on that azerite gear.

A lot of people lack vision. Legion was in a terrible state. BfA is in a good state. The classes do look a bit on the basic side baseline, but the talents give it more complexity if you so wish. Add the azerite bonuses on top of it and you got varied and playable classes that don't depend on the added system to function like they did in Legion.

Btw, as far as being 3 or 4 buttons in the main rotation, it's always been the case. It is not new.

A class should have a good gameplay without azerite gear.

Why would I level a class to 120 and spend hours in dungeons to farm gear so I can go to raids to get the azerite gear that I need to make my class fun to play when I am not having fun doing that because my class needs those traits to be enyojable?

And for people who do not raid it is even worse: Their classes will never feel good, because they will not get the azerite gear.

Another problem: Let's say I ignore all this and get 3 pieces of azerite gear that somehow fix my class and it now plays awesome. The raid tier is now over and a new one is coming. However, the azerite traits that made my specc awesome are not on the list of gear that the new raids drops.
I now the choice to either play a broken class / specc again or do not upgrade my azerite gear. I do not even have the choice to go back and hope for a titanforged version of it, because it can not titanforge.

Personally I think I would agree with this system if in every raid the same traits of azerite gear are always available in some form. If that is possible, it would still be bad design in my opinion that I need this gear for my class to feel good, but I could somehow accept it.

[Azzurri]

You have to be naive to believe that specs weren't not designed around the artifacts; even though, Ion said they weren't bu we all know that's a complete lie. The problem is that a lot of specs feel barren because what made them feel good was the artifact traits, and now that they are gone specs feel meh for the most part.

I think the team thought Azerite gear could plug the holes of everything they're taking away in Bfa (Legendary's, tier set, artifact, relic and NLC) but see now there was no way that one system could fix multiple systems being removed. We see this with all these spec changes coming within the past month.

I'm really surprised they didn't think of this before alpha hit, they had to know this was gonna be a major problem, but they held off with 2 months left and even Ion himself said it. Straight from the horses mouth.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Demo, survival, fury and MM feel amazing, have you seen this fucking shit? every time i use it i scream DAKADAKADAKADAKADAKA!!!
(wondrous pictures)

i am so very much looking forward to the hunter i'm liking it so much better then pre legion hunter.

- - - Updated - - -

You have to be naive to believe that specs weren't not designed around the artifacts; even though, Ion said they weren't bu we all know that's a complete lie. The problem is that a lot of specs feel barren because what made them feel good was the artifact traits, and now that they are gone specs feel meh for the most part.

I think the team thought Azerite gear could plug the holes of everything they're taking away in Bfa (Legendary's, tier set, artifact, relic and NLC) but see now there was no way that one system could fix multiple systems being removed. We see this with all these spec changes coming within the past month.

I'm really surprised they didn't think of this before alpha hit, they had to know this was gonna be a major problem, but they held off with 2 months left and even Ion himself said it. Straight from the horses mouth.

why do people think azrite was meant to fill holes? the pieces have different effects why do you think they would try to fill the holes with things that will vastly differ from person to person.

[docterfreeze]

Yeah 100%, but there's no way they're going to pay for that. Higher ups have deemed gameplay unimportant for profits. Classes are basic and samey cause that takes the least effort to make.