Why are VA panels "bad"?

[Artorius]

Simplifying things to the extreme because explaining this every single time is tiring. LCDs in general are only the "best" with static images and extremely bright environments. CRTs and plasmas are always better whenever anything needs to move. OLEDs and plasmas are also always better whenever you need to display blacks alongside relatively bright pixels.

OLEDs and plasmas however are terrible with static images and despite deploying multiple tricks to avoid burn-ins, it's never really completely safe. LCD in general is safe. Note that this is not about output quality. It is however important to know that Plasmas and CRTs are by default better than LCD in motion when it comes to quality too since they're not sample-and-hold. OLED and LCD need BFI or backlight strobing in order to have clean motion and avoid eye-tracking motion blur. Increasing the refresh rate helps, but not enough to make it perfect.

LCD is also brighter than anything which makes it great in living rooms or outdoor usage.

The different LCD panel types exist to make LCD problems less bad, if you want it to be more "responsive" you go with TN, but you stay with shit viewing angles and shit blacks. If you want to have decent viewing angles you go with IPS, but you stay with shit blacks and sub-par "responsiveness". If you want image quality in content consumption you need decent black levels so you go with VA, but you end up with shit viewing angles and also relatively bad "responsiveness".

[DeltrusDisc]

mate. you want a high-end TN panel for gaming and thats it. ppl say the color accuracy isnt good enough but unless youre some picture/movie editor you wont know it and TN is the only panel where you can actually get rid of ghosting so it is ALWAYS the way to go for optimal gaming experience. but dont settle. spend the money that it costs for a highend one like a strix or predator class. its gonna set u back $500+ easily but its worth it

Disagree.

When first got the original ASUS ROG SWIFT, a TN 1440p@144Hz monitor, I could immediately notice color-shifting for the parts of the screen that were not directly in front of me. An IPS or VA panel doesn't allow it to happen.

I'm assuming you just don't even know what color-shifting is, when I say it. It's viewing angle related and annoying as shit.

@Afrospinach is also talking about viewing angle, but when you start pushing 27" and larger monitors, the edges start to be at a rough angle from your eyes and you may actually notice color inaccuracies.

Yes, IPS and VA are better for a plethora of reasons, even for gamers.

[Deleted]

I'm assuming you just don't even know what color-shifting is, when I say it. It's viewing angle related and annoying as shit.

thats a very safe assumption to make. how could anyone else possibly know or even have experienced this rare phenomenon. tip of the hat to you good sir, what an intellectual!

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TN panels as I understand are good for exactly ONE thing - response times for "competitive" FPS games.

the response time on good ips and va panels are actually low enough most of the time.. the problem with them are ghosting or motion blur, you know when the picture stops being completely sharp and things looked abit washed out. but it is true that tn panels can get down to that infamous 1ms responsetime where ips and va panels dont go lower than 4-5ms. and most of the time thats just marketing. if u go look at the specs for the at a site like panelook.com you will often find that the rise/fall time of those panels are quite high despite being advertised as a 4-5ms panel.
with all that being said, if you want a large monitor, tn is not the way to go. the reason being that the viewing angles can be quite terrible so with a large monitor, the edges might look really odd due to the colorreproduction being poor at off-angles

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Technically people should go for a CRT if they really are that concerned about optimal gaming.

i would agree, but whos got space for a 24inch crt these days - and youre certainly not gonna wallmount it either :P the screen itself can be great, but the size and weight of those things... my god

[CMyTA]

Simplifying things to the extreme because explaining this every single time is tiring. LCDs in general are only the "best" with static images and extremely bright environments. CRTs and plasmas are always better whenever anything needs to move. OLEDs and plasmas are also always better whenever you need to display blacks alongside relatively bright pixels.

OLEDs and plasmas however are terrible with static images and despite deploying multiple tricks to avoid burn-ins, it's never really completely safe. LCD in general is safe. Note that this is not about output quality. It is however important to know that Plasmas and CRTs are by default better than LCD in motion when it comes to quality too since they're not sample-and-hold. OLED and LCD need BFI or backlight strobing in order to have clean motion and avoid eye-tracking motion blur. Increasing the refresh rate helps, but not enough to make it perfect.

LCD is also brighter than anything which makes it great in living rooms or outdoor usage.

The different LCD panel types exist to make LCD problems less bad, if you want it to be more "responsive" you go with TN, but you stay with shit viewing angles and shit blacks. If you want to have decent viewing angles you go with IPS, but you stay with shit blacks and sub-par "responsiveness". If you want image quality in content consumption you need decent black levels so you go with VA, but you end up with shit viewing angles and also relatively bad "responsiveness".

how can any lcd be brighter than oled? you're talking shit

[Afrospinach]

how can any lcd be brighter than oled? you're talking shit

Eh? OLEDs are not famous for their brightness. The brightness of an LCD is almost and independent feature depending on how much backlight you are prepared to use. OLEDs are limited to what the tiny little pixel level cells can handle. The only thing that can make an OLED look "brighter" is their remarkable contrast ratio which is technically infinite.

[Daethz]

I had a ultrawide va panel breifly, returned it when even in assassins creed i could see rocks streaking on the screen and fast movement caused the entire game world to blur.
Tried all settings to fix it, some reduced the issue but caused other issues.

VA is trash, ips is trash unless you win the panel lottery, tn is the best. A 4k hdr tn panel at 120hz or more sounds amazing to me.

[DeltrusDisc]

I had a ultrawide va panel breifly, returned it when even in assassins creed i could see rocks streaking on the screen and fast movement caused the entire game world to blur.
Tried all settings to fix it, some reduced the issue but caused other issues.

VA is trash, ips is trash unless you win the panel lottery, tn is the best. A 4k hdr tn panel at 120hz or more sounds amazing to me.

lol your one experience isn't indicative of all panels.

I don't see streaking except in very remote situations.

[Exeris]

TN panels as I understand are good for exactly ONE thing - response times for "competitive" FPS games.

And they are cheap to make.

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I have this VA monitor:

https://www.samsung.com/us/computing...c24fg73fqnxza/

It's Quantum Dot. It has amazing colors. It's a fast 1ms 144Hz panel. Great OSD. Incredibly low VA glow/backlight bleed. Deep blacks, great contrast.

Previous version had purple artifacting due to some aggressive overdrive settings. The model I have is clean.

If I were to find something negative about it is the text quality which is lacking. Pixels seem to miss from some text. I have an IPS panel for work in another room and it's significantly better at this (and worse at anything else besides work space, although it costs twice the price this Samsung costed).

So I wouldn't say VA panels are bad. I'd say that buying monitors is a lottery. Some come with dead pixels, or pronounced backlight bleed, even the expensive models.

Not sure what else to say other than don't get discouraged by people on the net, just try and see for yourself how a VA works and its image quality and decide then.

How is the accuracy of the colors?

That used to be my biggest problem with VA panels, that the colors was a little off, like the red leaned a bit towards being pink for example, but I have never seen a quantum dot VA panel IRL.

I'm looking for a new screen maybe this can be an option for me, I have tried more than 10 ips panels and can't stand the glow of any of the Asus or Acer top models that seem to only use AU Optronics that make shit panels(at least they did a little over a year ago).

[Remilia]

You realize that one of the reasons a standard LCD has contrast issues is because they use backlighting for brightness... right? It's basically shining a white light through every cell(with diffusion creating hot and cold areas) which creates a shit picture.

Could get this.
http://www.eizoglobal.com/products/c...145/index.html

LCD's contrast technically isn't an issue anymore since Panasonic came out with a new technology for it, it's just so far not implemented by other companies than Eizo. Not sure how expensive it'd be if it were to just go down in spec. Say 10bit, 95% DCI-P3, no 24bit 3DLUT and display uniformity. And remove non professional use stuff.

[DeltrusDisc]

No clue how much it costs them for the base technology to produce right now, so it makes it hard to judge. The fact that it's only available in products you have to contact them to even begin purchasing makes me think it's not cheap.

Yes. Eizo makes some fantastic, very expensive displays.

[Remilia]

No clue how much it costs them for the base technology to produce right now, so it makes it hard to judge. The fact that it's only available in products you have to contact them to even begin purchasing makes me think it's not cheap.

It's $28k :P, I'm guessing bill of material is expensive, but there are a lot that can be cut out to reduce the price for non professional.

[Remilia]

For the base technology? B

Nah the final price.

[gaymer77]

Not to sound ignorant (even though I am on this) but what is a VA panel and what is/are other options out there? I get this involves monitors based on some of the posts in here but what's the difference in them?

[Remilia]

There are a lot of other characteristics that get mentioned often, but as time passed they are no longer that relevant for recent models. For example:

- TNs have a lot of backlight bleed. They might, but so will IPS and VA, regardless of the fact that people will call that IPS/VA Glow instead - it will still have the same effect on the image.

"IPS Glow" and backlight bleed are two completely different thing. The former is an off angle glow caused by the panel's characteristics. This can be resolved with an Advanced True White polarized (A-TW). Backlight bleed is exactly as it sound, improper placing and sealing between the backlight and the lcd panel.

[Granyala]

Could get this.
http://www.eizoglobal.com/products/c...145/index.html

LCD's contrast technically isn't an issue anymore since Panasonic came out with a new technology for it, it's just so far not implemented by other companies than Eizo. Not sure how expensive it'd be if it were to just go down in spec. Say 10bit, 95% DCI-P3, no 24bit 3DLUT and display uniformity. And remove non professional use stuff.

30K... peanuts. My next gaming screen