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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by scarecrowz View Post
    Don't most of you delusional fanboys think this game still has 5 million players. (HINT: IT DOESN'T)


    I'll humour you though, troll.


    What percentage of 5 000 000 is 22k?
    well its more like 100k that participate, but it's still a small percentage. I'd say at peak legion was 8mil around Jan when antorus was new. Regardless the game should be based around mythic. Why cause that 100k won't play if there isn't some hardcore gameplay. Most people in this game are casual, you should never tune the game for casuals, you give them options like lfr, pet battles, etc.

  2. #82
    I do agree there's too much complexity in the "hard stuff" (raids, "actual" PvP, etc). Not in the content itself, but in extra layers of systems, very often created by players.
    But simplifying the classes is not a good answer to that. It takes away from the actually fun part, while keeping the boring, "intimidating to new players" one mostly intact. You'll still have to download addons and all of that.
    Besides, it hurts the "easy" content a lot, because, well... just playing your class is most of the non-lore fun you can have with a big part of it.

    I can't say if the BfA changes are good or bad until I actually play it (people have been complaining about pruning for years and I'm still fine with how complex classes are). But the point that "classes need to be pruned to make the game easier to get into" is just not a good one.
    Last edited by Leodok; 2018-06-29 at 12:20 AM.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Shinrael View Post
    You too
    Only one can be wrong. If both are wrong then there's nothing to be wrong about.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by scarecrowz View Post
    Because a 75th percentile person will still kill the boss. Because this game is stupidly easy.

    - - - Updated - - -



    When my rotation consists of the same monotonous builder, spender and proc gameplay then yes. Complexity has been removed.

    When I have less options to deal with 90% of my situations - complexity has been removed.


    It used to be - "Oh shit X is happening, good thing I have a way to deal with this. I will use it because I'm a good player".

    Now its just - "Oh shit X is happening, I have no way to deal with this. I will die."




    Making braindead specs and loading all the complexity into "MYTHIC RAIDING" is some of the most moronic design I've ever experienced. Less than 5% of the playerbase experiences it.
    Yeaaaah. I am pretty sure I already told you these statements are hilariously abstract without an actual EXAMPLE? Wanna try again? When did gameplay not consist of "same monotonous builder, spender and proc"? Oh right, when there were no builders and procs, just mana spenders! And when your mana drops to 0, you wand or auto attack the boss till it dies Great engaging gameplay, amirite?

    And what situations and what options would you sir be refering to? Enlighten me. "X is happening, good thing I have a way to deal with this." "Y is happening, good thing I have a way to deal with this." "Z is happening, good thing I have a way to deal with this." Good thing you have a way to deal with EVERYTHING, amirite? Whoever needs to try to avoid mechanics, think in advance, plan WHEN to use their utility instead of just having a counter to everything on demand without the need to use your brain....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rendark View Post
    Only one can be wrong. If both are wrong then there's nothing to be wrong about.
    Good job, you just proved your entire post (as short and meaningful as it was) is utterly pointless and silly.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc7 View Post
    I agree with you, for the most part. Currently what we've seen of the azerite gear isn't nearly as deep a progression system as artifacts and legendaries were. There is really nothing comparable in BfA to those systems in terms of gameplay-altering new class mechanics especially when even the raid azerite powers we've seen so far are quite underwhelming. Don't get me wrong, I still think BfA classes seem pretty good, and legendaries were a horrible system. Just, have the azerite traits have more gameplay altering elements and we're fine. Also it's stupid that there is only 1 trait for each spec in the armor: it's not a choice, you just confirm which spec you are playing. It's also kinda disappointing to me that most tiers of azerite bonuses aren't class specific.
    Well I do hope and expect to see more intriguing traits as the expansion unfolds. Blizzard always tends to do it with trinket and set bonuses as well. In the beginning of the expansion they are weak and don't alter the gameplay that much but later on end up completely messing up everything around (as in one item can change your entire rotation). This was not so much the case with Legion because it had those Nighthold trinkets and the Legendaries. But let us see.
    Quote Originally Posted by Citamorf
    To THINK that they'd release FOUR of the SIX new Allied Races to play BEFORE the Expansions release is FOOLISH to think
    Quote Originally Posted by Arikan View Post
    Facts I've been told: Horde will never have paladins/Alliance will never have shaman, goblins/worgen/pandaren will never be playable races, demon hunters will never be a playable class, Blizzard will never sell in-game items for real world money, Blizzard will never have classic servers, the max level cap can't go past 100.

  5. #85
    I am Murloc! sam86's Avatar
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    I don't think there is a new player, if blizz is ignoring reality, wow now is mainly on ppl who playing it, or used to play it and return every now and then, which is the overwhelming majority
    I didn't meet a single 'new' player in legion, the 'newest' one was someone who stopped after Cata, and i'm pretty sure that the 'new' players don't even think of mmo anymore, but they used to moba, then now they go to battle royal, and who knows what will be next hot game genre

    And while I liked legion, I still feel disgust that my taskbar had more spells during Wrath than in Legion, situational flavor spells are what make the game RPG, why remove them ? Why remove mind sooth for example, why remove quivers that can be shown on character ?
    And why are emotes on gcd !
    The beginning of wisdom is the statement 'I do not know.' The person who cannot make that statement is one who will never learn anything. And I have prided myself on my ability to learn
    Thrall
    http://youtu.be/x3ejO7Nssj8 7:20+ "Alliance remaining super power", clearly blizz favor horde too much, that they made alliance the super power

  6. #86
    I'm just going to stop reading after the second paragraph, no logs = fake.
    Quote Originally Posted by scarecrowz View Post
    Trust me.

    Zyky is better than you.

  7. #87
    I am Murloc! sam86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shinrael View Post
    And what situations and what options would you sir be refering to? Enlighten me.
    raid in TBC specially and u'll know them
    The beginning of wisdom is the statement 'I do not know.' The person who cannot make that statement is one who will never learn anything. And I have prided myself on my ability to learn
    Thrall
    http://youtu.be/x3ejO7Nssj8 7:20+ "Alliance remaining super power", clearly blizz favor horde too much, that they made alliance the super power

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by elynos View Post
    well its more like 100k that participate, but it's still a small percentage. I'd say at peak legion was 8mil around Jan when antorus was new. Regardless the game should be based around mythic. Why cause that 100k won't play if there isn't some hardcore gameplay. Most people in this game are casual, you should never tune the game for casuals, you give them options like lfr, pet battles, etc.
    You actually are delusional if you think Legion hit 8m active subs in the later half of the expansion.
    Quote Originally Posted by scarecrowz View Post
    Trust me.

    Zyky is better than you.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Shinrael View Post
    Good job, you just proved your entire post (as short and meaningful as it was) is utterly pointless and silly.
    But I'm right tho.

  10. #90
    The Lightbringer scarecrowz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elynos View Post
    well its more like 100k that participate, but it's still a small percentage. I'd say at peak legion was 8mil around Jan when antorus was new. Regardless the game should be based around mythic. Why cause that 100k won't play if there isn't some hardcore gameplay. Most people in this game are casual, you should never tune the game for casuals, you give them options like lfr, pet battles, etc.
    This game doesn't have more than 4 million subs and that's being generous.

    The amount of completely dead realms is hilarious.


    Sorry champ. Exactly what I said is true.

    Class Design is insanely boring and simplistic.

    They've loaded any sort of "complexity" into the fights themselves - fights that the majority of the playerbase never even experiences.


    BLIZZARD GAME DESIGN WOOOOOO.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyky View Post
    You actually are delusional if you think Legion hit 8m active subs in the later half of the expansion.
    He just played his "fanboy" card.

    Completely delusional.

    I'd say the 2-4 mark is generous.


    People don't seem to understand that the MMO genre is dying.

    WoW was a pop culture "icon" 10 years ago. It isn't anymore.
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    PS - you might want to update your sig, since the player you are quoting was long ago banned for being a troll and trouble maker.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyky View Post
    PS - you might want to spend more time researching why he's actually banned. Most of the time it's because his opinion doesn't line up with the opinions of threads he posts in and because the mods of this forum are most of the time a joke and just instantly ban people instead of actually looking at the reason.

  11. #91
    Iagree something needs to happen ive tried countless times to get friend's to play who play games at a high lvl. Is this the right way? Who knows.
    Its clear alot of people here don't have alpha/beta some speccs feel slow but alot of them are very fun. Losing leggoos and weapon and tiers at the same time is rough BUT we were told before that leggos and weapon would go.
    Now tier sets i agree should go cause it made it harder for people due to elitist assholes. I am a player who does 1 carry per week atleast m+ or raid it so rewarding ! Being praised for healing or tanking a guild normal run and helping them clear it is awesome.
    There so many different skill lvls in this game which alot of people don't understand will this be the right way we will see BUT bfa is not the worst ever so many have short memories.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    I don't think there is a new player, if blizz is ignoring reality, wow now is mainly on ppl who playing it, or used to play it and return every now and then, which is the overwhelming majority
    I didn't meet a single 'new' player in legion, the 'newest' one was someone who stopped after Cata, and i'm pretty sure that the 'new' players don't even think of mmo anymore, but they used to moba, then now they go to battle royal, and who knows what will be next hot game genre

    And while I liked legion, I still feel disgust that my taskbar had more spells during Wrath than in Legion, situational flavor spells are what make the game RPG, why remove them ? Why remove mind sooth for example, why remove quivers that can be shown on character ?
    And why are emotes on gcd !
    Oh, YOU haven't met a new player? What a great argument! But let me give you an example still - my friend who has been hating on WoW for 8 years finally decided to give the game a try for BfA and started playing it the other day. He is in love with it now. And I keep meeting new players all the time. You not having met any is just your problem. Using that as an argument just embarasses you in front of everyone. Don't do that mate.

    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    raid in TBC specially and u'll know them
    Care to give an example, oh glorious TBC raider guy? I've been playing this game since the end of Vanilla (2006).

    Quote Originally Posted by Rendark View Post
    But I'm right tho.
    Exactly! That's what we call a contradiction! Beautiful.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by scarecrowz View Post
    This game doesn't have more than 4 million subs and that's being generous.



    - - - Updated - - -





    I'd say the 2-4 mark is generous.


    People don't seem to understand that the MMO genre is dying.

    WoW was a pop culture "icon" 10 years ago. It isn't anymore.
    How did you calculate those numbers and how did you decide that MMO genre is dying? Seems quite alive to me, more so than ever. Sorry.
    Quote Originally Posted by Citamorf
    To THINK that they'd release FOUR of the SIX new Allied Races to play BEFORE the Expansions release is FOOLISH to think
    Quote Originally Posted by Arikan View Post
    Facts I've been told: Horde will never have paladins/Alliance will never have shaman, goblins/worgen/pandaren will never be playable races, demon hunters will never be a playable class, Blizzard will never sell in-game items for real world money, Blizzard will never have classic servers, the max level cap can't go past 100.

  13. #93
    The Lightbringer scarecrowz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shinrael View Post
    Yeaaaah. I am pretty sure I already told you these statements are hilariously abstract without an actual EXAMPLE? Wanna try again? When did gameplay not consist of "same monotonous builder, spender and proc"? Oh right, when there were no builders and procs, just mana spenders! And when your mana drops to 0, you wand or auto attack the boss till it dies Great engaging gameplay, amirite?

    And what situations and what options would you sir be refering to? Enlighten me. "X is happening, good thing I have a way to deal with this." "Y is happening, good thing I have a way to deal with this." "Z is happening, good thing I have a way to deal with this." Good thing you have a way to deal with EVERYTHING, amirite? Whoever needs to try to avoid mechanics, think in advance, plan WHEN to use their utility instead of just having a counter to everything on demand without the need to use your brain....

    - - - Updated - - -



    Good job, you just proved your entire post (as short and meaningful as it was) is utterly pointless and silly.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Well I do hope and expect to see more intriguing traits as the expansion unfolds. Blizzard always tends to do it with trinket and set bonuses as well. In the beginning of the expansion they are weak and don't alter the gameplay that much but later on end up completely messing up everything around (as in one item can change your entire rotation). This was not so much the case with Legion because it had those Nighthold trinkets and the Legendaries. But let us see.
    Yeah that's why prominent community members and anyone with a brain wishes they would bring back "MOMENTS OF GLORY".

    You know - when you had the utility to perform fun and amazing feats. Saving a wipe, 2v1ing someone in PvP through outplay.



    I also love it how people like you LOVE comparing Class Design from 2018 to Class Design from 2005.

    How about you do a fair comparison like.... MoP Class Design. You know, before the prune began.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Shinrael View Post
    Oh, YOU haven't met a new player? What a great argument! But let me give you an example still - my friend who has been hating on WoW for 8 years finally decided to give the game a try for BfA and started playing it the other day. He is in love with it now. And I keep meeting new players all the time. You not having met any is just your problem. Using that as an argument just embarasses you in front of everyone. Don't do that mate.



    Care to give an example, oh glorious TBC raider guy? I've been playing this game since the end of Vanilla (2006).



    Exactly! That's what we call a contradiction! Beautiful.

    - - - Updated - - -



    How did you calculate those numbers and how did you decide that MMO genre is dying? Seems quite alive to me, more so than ever. Sorry.
    That's the problem isn't it - no one knows.

    But looking at evidence through stat tracking sites, achievement tracking sites and all the dead realms. It's safe to say the game never recovered from WoD.


    The kids of this generation don't play MMOs. They play MOBAs and Battle Royale games. The genre has stagnated - face facts.

    Where are all the new AAA MMOs? All we get now is ported Korean MMOs that die within 1-2 years of release.
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    PS - you might want to update your sig, since the player you are quoting was long ago banned for being a troll and trouble maker.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyky View Post
    PS - you might want to spend more time researching why he's actually banned. Most of the time it's because his opinion doesn't line up with the opinions of threads he posts in and because the mods of this forum are most of the time a joke and just instantly ban people instead of actually looking at the reason.

  14. #94
    I like compact kits, so I'm with you there OP

    However, they did it wrong, they pruned down to filler abilities instead of unique and exciting loadouts, they also didn't offer any more choice in building your rotation.

    So they had the right idea but they don't have enough talent to pull it off. Everything is boilerplate at best and horribly boring on the beta.

    But even if they nailed the classes I wouldn't stay, as the content in beta is dogshit awful. The worst I've seen in WoW since Cataclysm. WoW is staffed with C-tier employees that have no passion for an old game made by other people.

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by scarecrowz View Post
    Yeah that's why prominent community members and anyone with a brain wishes they would bring back "MOMENTS OF GLORY".

    You know - when you had the utility to perform fun and amazing feats. Saving a wipe, 2v1ing someone in PvP through outplay.



    I also love it how people like you LOVE comparing Class Design from 2018 to Class Design from 2005.

    How about you do a fair comparison like.... MoP Class Design. You know, before the prune began.

    - - - Updated - - -


    That's the problem isn't it - no one knows.

    But looking at evidence through stat tracking sites, achievement tracking sites and all the dead realms. It's safe to say the game never recovered from WoD.


    The kids of this generation don't play MMOs. They play MOBAs and Battle Royale games. The genre has stagnated - face facts.

    Where are all the new AAA MMOs? All we get now is ported Korean MMOs that die within 1-2 years of release.

    What is why?? What are you talking about in that first line of yours?

    You still have the utility to perform fun and amazing feats. This will be the 3rd time I tell you but: Saying X is no more without giving a concrete example (especially having in mind that it actually still exists) makes you sound hilarious. Stop it. Stop embarassing yourself.
    You wanna talk about MoP class design? I will never forget how I saved a wipe with my guild in SoO on heroic. Divine Shield as the last person standing and finishing off the boss. If this isn't moment of glory, then IDK what is. I also had many similar experiences while raiding Normal and Heroic Antorus (though I was pugging it so no guild to cheer for me on ventrillo or teamspeak). 2v1 someone in PvP You can't do that anymore? I just did the other day when I started doing arenas for the first time. It was so epic! In just 3 hours I had so many epic moments happen to me, learned so many things. Your point? Maybe you're the one who is falling behind, no?

    And what would "People like me" refer to anyway? Of course I will refer to game design in 2004 and in 2005 and in 2006 and in 2007 and in 2008 and in 2009 and in 2010 and in 2011 and in 2012 and in 2013 and in 2014 and in 2015 and in 2016 and in 2017 and in 2018. That's the period during which the game has existed. If people like you are going to keep saying "the current wow is bad" then that means they are making a comparison with the old WoW. YOU are the ones, making that comparison. I am merely replying back. And while MoP is still my favourite expansion for its theme (the art, the music, the story) it cannot compare to Legion in terms of gameplay/combat. Been playing this game for 12 years and up until Legion I have always said to my friends (and online as well) that I play WoW solely for its art and aesthetics and do not really enjoy the gameplay. And for the first time, in Legion, was I able to say "Wow, I love the gameplay/combat".

    If you don't know and nobody else knows either, then you simply don't make assumptions. It's downright stupid. It's delusional at best. Saying "WoW is dying because the subs are going low" or "The subs are declining because WoW is dying" or anything of the sort is just as stupid as the people you claimed to be delusional for thinking it has 8 m subs. Dead realms? Which has never ever happened before during an end-game patch where people are waiting for the new expansion to hit or just busy with graduating university or preparing for the Summer? Nooooo. "Looking at evidence"? What evidence? I meet new players of all ages, so apparently some of the new kids like MMOs too. Yes, Battle Royale and MOBA games are popular and they get lots of coverage on twitch and youtube. Doesn't mean MMOs are dead or unpopular. Just people playing MMOs are more inclined to focus on their games instead of watching others. Plus there is more stuff to do in an MMO. And there are sooo many new MMOs coming out (and some of them are looking solid like Ashes of Creation). Them failing flat on their faces has nothing to do with WoW. Other than I guess not being able to reach the high standards set by WoW.

    Just because you are on the hater side doesn't make you any more cooler or correct. And that is why people like me have to interfere and teach you guys some proper manners. Come at me with facts and examples and logic and stop repeating the same old stupid shit without any basis or explanation, it's awkwardly embarassing.
    Last edited by Shinrael; 2018-06-29 at 02:05 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Citamorf
    To THINK that they'd release FOUR of the SIX new Allied Races to play BEFORE the Expansions release is FOOLISH to think
    Quote Originally Posted by Arikan View Post
    Facts I've been told: Horde will never have paladins/Alliance will never have shaman, goblins/worgen/pandaren will never be playable races, demon hunters will never be a playable class, Blizzard will never sell in-game items for real world money, Blizzard will never have classic servers, the max level cap can't go past 100.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Shinrael View Post

    Dumbing down class design and make the game less full of clutter and obsolete systems and menus are two different things. If anything, the combat is much more engaging than it has ever been. At this point you're just throwing random accusations without a basis (or with an imaginary basis).
    but blizzard is doing the former, not the latter, if anything they're adding more clutter with azerite AND dumbing down classes at the same time. so yeah.
    Last edited by shaunika123; 2018-06-29 at 02:06 AM.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by shaunika123 View Post
    but blizzard is doing the former, not the latter, if anything they're adding more clutter with azerite AND dumbing down classes at the same time. so yeah.
    How are they adding more clutter with Azerite when it's only passive traits? Do you even have any idea what you're saying?

    And no, they are not dumbing down classes. They are making them actually fun to play for once. Like Fury, like Subtlety, like Fire, like Retri, like Arms, like Holy, like Havoc, like Vengeance, like Marksmanship, like BM, like Outlaw, like Demonology and so on. These classes have never been as much fun as they are now. And there's more.
    Quote Originally Posted by Citamorf
    To THINK that they'd release FOUR of the SIX new Allied Races to play BEFORE the Expansions release is FOOLISH to think
    Quote Originally Posted by Arikan View Post
    Facts I've been told: Horde will never have paladins/Alliance will never have shaman, goblins/worgen/pandaren will never be playable races, demon hunters will never be a playable class, Blizzard will never sell in-game items for real world money, Blizzard will never have classic servers, the max level cap can't go past 100.

  18. #98
    Dreadlord Pigglix's Avatar
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    I love when people pull numbers out of their arses and say stupid shit like: WoW is under 4M subs or w/e pipe dream they're having.

    Its like they ignored what blizzard said when legion launched "Reached Wrath numbers" or ignore the blizzard calls thing or w/e they do each quarter.

    I mean, sorry, they dont ignore, they just twist blizzard words into some "Oh that's just some PR talk bs lolol white knights cant face the facts lulz"

    Now, speaking of facts, please, show me the facts that says WoW is equal or under 4M, and dont tell me to check some lolz stat website, if you cant come here and really show the numbers with said fact, then, well, guess its time for you to face the facts.

    Also dead realms? Really? This talk of "dead realms" is going since idk..TBC? Its always the same speach: "Omg some realms are dead, wow/ mmo genre is dying"
    Last edited by Pigglix; 2018-06-29 at 02:40 AM.

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Saverem View Post
    Sorry, but the new design has less depth and less freedom while also being slower thanks to GCD changes.

    Not even Fox News could spin this into a positive change.
    i'm thinking the game is gonna be worse than during legion. legion was very bad on class design. blizzed is sure pissed at their customers.

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Shinrael View Post
    Exactly! That's what we call a contradiction! Beautiful.
    I'm going to take a guess and say we have the opposite opinion. Oh well i guess it doesn't matter. I won't be playing BfA so i hope you have fun with it.

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