Crusader strike?

[Rollatorklm]

With the changes to other classes (mainly fire mages) to make early expansion playstyles more fun to play, i don't personally see why crusader strike (and hammer of the righteousness for prot) needs a cooldown? it just slows down the spec in an uneeded way @Low haste values

once you get proper gear, you'd rather hit your bigger abilities anyways, it just removes downtime? and makes classes like ret feel slow for the first 2 raid tiers

Does anyone know blizzards reasoning with this?

[Nobleshield]

I don't get their reasoning, but I want to add that I agree. I think every class needs at least 1 (and maybe more) spammable filler ability. I am testing Prot on the Beta right now as that will be my main spec again for BfA, and having those gaps where I have nothing to do because everything is on cooldown seems like just awful game design. Making a spec feel clunky until you get higher end gear is IMHO terrible from a design standpoint.

[Deleted]

I agree... i played Legion as Pala tank with the third talent of the first line just to play "faster"... :/.

For pala DPS i don't feel the same frustration as you always have something else to do, but when you picked the "Blade of justice" to turn it AOE, yeah you've some 3-5 seconds gap where you just wait, and it feels bad.

Not played the BETA but i can imagine with the GCD change, it could be much slower.

[Grogplus]

I think the main point of that is so that players are discouraged to just press crusader strike over and over. (I know it's super wrong but imagine how many LFR lvl players will just remove other abilities from their action bars. I mean its the path of least resistance, just like not learning your class - it WILL happen)

[Goonette]

As Holy I find myself spamming Consecrate to fill those dead times, and even then there's times where everything is on cooldown and I can only wait.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

I don't understand why Ret doesn't have Hammer of the Righteous AND Crusader Strike (shared CD) so you can chose if you want to ST or Cleave like more or less all other melee can, especially considering how abysmal Ret AoE/Cleave is atm I just don't get it...

[capri sunset]

I don't understand why Ret doesn't have Hammer of the Righteous AND Crusader Strike (shared CD) so you can chose if you want to ST or Cleave like more or less all other melee can, especially considering how abysmal Ret AoE/Cleave is atm I just don't get it...

I guess we can't complain about it being targeted if it doesn't exist. Tbh I miss the satisfying animation most of all, I agree though I can't think of a reason why it was removed in the first place beyond pruning?

[Kalisandra]

Pruning is the entirely of the reasoning behind its removal.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Pruning is the entirely of the reasoning behind its removal.

Well why do we have Templars Verdict and Divine Storm then? They have the same "relationship" as Crusader Strike and Hammer of the Righteous in that you only use one for ST and the other for Cleave/AoE...

It's the same with Execution Sentence and Light's Hammer/Consecration, one of them is specifically for ST and the other is specifically for multi-target. They simply make for choices and options in what you're doing, all this "pruning" is just removing options and freedom in the game- even if that freedom makes people do the "wrong choices" it's something that SHOULD be in the game.

[Cofic]

My recommendations for Retribution:
-Consecration should be baseline,aoe filler same duration/cd as what holy and prot have. Generate 1 HP
-Art of War should be 4PPM baseline
-Crusader strike cd reverted back to 4.5sec cd. 2 charges is enough
-Hammer of Wrath should be baseline,one of the most iconic abilities since vanilla.
-Wake of Ashes should be baseline,revert cd to 30sec like in legion. The fact that it gives 5 HP fixes the rotation in many ways and makes it more fluid.

The rotation shouldnt be "press the button which is off cd". Skillcap doesnt exist in that case,only latency and input lag. Rotation should be based on decisions,planning,reacting etc. Downtime shouldnt exist or be very small.
The talents shouldnt feel mandatory to make the spec feel wholesome/fluid. They should change the feel/how the spec/abilities works.

-New talent in place of Blade of Wrath - the procs increased dmg is cool,maybe make it crit,or make it apply a dot to burn the target, or some other thing
-New talent in place of Hammer of Wrath - maybe give some procs to HoW, or increase % to 35%, or some other thing
-New talent in place of Wake of Ashes - something like Crusader Strike also hits 2 closest targets for X% dmg,just like zeal or hammer of righteousness shockwave of dmg.
-New talent in place of Consecration - something new to change up Divine Storm,more dmg or less HP cost,maybe the projection from artifact trait.

[Pandragon]

Probably the same reason why a resource generating cooldown based spec like Fury still runs off a 1.5 sec gcd. Or DK, whose very limited on runes regenerating, does as well.

[Nobleshield]

Honestly, I liked the concept of builder/spender: You have abilities that generate a resource, and those that spend them. I really enjoyed that style of gameplay because it felt solid. I also enjoy the more modern MMO style of base attacks with a mouse and abilities (e.g. SWL, ESO, Neverwinter style, also seen in D3) but the WoW engine can't support mouse-based combat, so builder/spender worked really well. It's a shame they moved away from it.

[Kalisandra]

Honestly, I liked the concept of builder/spender: You have abilities that generate a resource, and those that spend them. I really enjoyed that style of gameplay because it felt solid. I also enjoy the more modern MMO style of base attacks with a mouse and abilities (e.g. SWL, ESO, Neverwinter style, also seen in D3) but the WoW engine can't support mouse-based combat, so builder/spender worked really well. It's a shame they moved away from it.

I'm not sad that they did, because they didn't for many specs - Ret is still very much build+spend, for example. However, moving away from it for others was a good move because in Legion far, far too many specs were changed to build-spend. Not every spec needs to have the same theme.

[rubenmsalles]

Is literally, the carrot on a stick for Rets (aside from "We will fix them in the next exp/patch/armageddon")

[Super Kami Dende]

With art of war baseline again and CS on a fairly low CD with charges, we rarely get large gaps even with low haste.

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Honestly, I liked the concept of builder/spender: You have abilities that generate a resource, and those that spend them. I really enjoyed that style of gameplay because it felt solid. I also enjoy the more modern MMO style of base attacks with a mouse and abilities (e.g. SWL, ESO, Neverwinter style, also seen in D3) but the WoW engine can't support mouse-based combat, so builder/spender worked really well. It's a shame they moved away from it.

I enjoy Build Spend as well. Ret is the "predictable" Dps spec for Melee. If you want frantic button mashing go do Enhance shaman.

[Nikkaszal]

With art of war baseline again and CS on a fairly low CD with charges, we rarely get large gaps even with low haste.

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I enjoy Build Spend as well. Ret is the "predictable" Dps spec for Melee. If you want frantic button mashing go do Enhance shaman.

Fury is the most frantic spec in BFA currently. It's so unbelievably fast and hectic, even in levelling gear.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Fury is the most frantic spec in BFA currently. It's so unbelievably fast and hectic, even in levelling gear.

You can make a 120 character on PvP realm now (pvp content only), not the same as PvE gear but it gives you some ideas about 120 and decently geared.

[Kithelle]

As long as they don't become the norm, there is a alternative I could care less. I personally hate spammable fillers...there is a reason why those kind of abilities usually don't even last a expansion..even the holdout DH has alternatives for both specs.

[Nikkaszal]

You can make a 120 character on PvP realm now (pvp content only), not the same as PvE gear but it gives you some ideas about 120 and decently geared.

I know, I also levelled a Fury Warrior on the beta last month.

Even without haste, it's speedy. With haste, Fury becomes obscene.

[Super Kami Dende]

Fury is the most frantic spec in BFA currently. It's so unbelievably fast and hectic, even in levelling gear.

Fury is still somewhat predictable even if it is fast. Enhance is RNG heavy.