Crusader strike?

[Nikkaszal]

Fury is still somewhat predictable even if it is fast. Enhance is RNG heavy.

Ahhhh right, I see where you were going now

[Chickat]

My recommendations for Retribution:
-Consecration should be baseline,aoe filler same duration/cd as what holy and prot have. Generate 1 HP
-Art of War should be 4PPM baseline
-Crusader strike cd reverted back to 4.5sec cd. 2 charges is enough
-Hammer of Wrath should be baseline,one of the most iconic abilities since vanilla.
-Wake of Ashes should be baseline,revert cd to 30sec like in legion. The fact that it gives 5 HP fixes the rotation in many ways and makes it more fluid.

The rotation shouldnt be "press the button which is off cd". Skillcap doesnt exist in that case,only latency and input lag. Rotation should be based on decisions,planning,reacting etc. Downtime shouldnt exist or be very small.
The talents shouldnt feel mandatory to make the spec feel wholesome/fluid. They should change the feel/how the spec/abilities works.

-New talent in place of Blade of Wrath - the procs increased dmg is cool,maybe make it crit,or make it apply a dot to burn the target, or some other thing
-New talent in place of Hammer of Wrath - maybe give some procs to HoW, or increase % to 35%, or some other thing
-New talent in place of Wake of Ashes - something like Crusader Strike also hits 2 closest targets for X% dmg,just like zeal or hammer of righteousness shockwave of dmg.
-New talent in place of Consecration - something new to change up Divine Storm,more dmg or less HP cost,maybe the projection from artifact trait.

Just give us the echo from artifacts on divine storm as a talent.

[Kalisandra]

Just give us the echo from artifacts on divine storm as a talent.

I'd prefer Empowered Divine Storm - it makes for a more interesting rotation, both ST and cleave.

[PaladinBash]

Good old Ret, the spec that doesn't even get a glorified auto-attack as a filler ability because "that would be boring" but sitting there not casting anything is a more interesting choice.

[Tokas]

My recommendations for Retribution:
-Consecration should be baseline,aoe filler same duration/cd as what holy and prot have. Generate 1 HP
-Art of War should be 4PPM baseline
-Crusader strike cd reverted back to 4.5sec cd. 2 charges is enough
-Hammer of Wrath should be baseline,one of the most iconic abilities since vanilla.
-Wake of Ashes should be baseline,revert cd to 30sec like in legion. The fact that it gives 5 HP fixes the rotation in many ways and makes it more fluid.

The rotation shouldnt be "press the button which is off cd". Skillcap doesnt exist in that case,only latency and input lag. Rotation should be based on decisions,planning,reacting etc. Downtime shouldnt exist or be very small.
The talents shouldnt feel mandatory to make the spec feel wholesome/fluid. They should change the feel/how the spec/abilities works.

-New talent in place of Blade of Wrath - the procs increased dmg is cool,maybe make it crit,or make it apply a dot to burn the target, or some other thing
-New talent in place of Hammer of Wrath - maybe give some procs to HoW, or increase % to 35%, or some other thing
-New talent in place of Wake of Ashes - something like Crusader Strike also hits 2 closest targets for X% dmg,just like zeal or hammer of righteousness shockwave of dmg.
-New talent in place of Consecration - something new to change up Divine Storm,more dmg or less HP cost,maybe the projection from artifact trait.

basically 10 rotational abilities.
it's just stupid.

[Rollatorklm]

I think the main point of that is so that players are discouraged to just press crusader strike over and over. (I know it's super wrong but imagine how many LFR lvl players will just remove other abilities from their action bars. I mean its the path of least resistance, just like not learning your class - it WILL happen)

But thats not bad? its okay that people play their specs wrong, there is nothing wrong with having to learn your spec
Its the same as a frost mage spamming frostbolt not using its procs?
Its a dps loss

[Kaver]

My recommendations for Retribution:
-Consecration should be baseline,aoe filler same duration/cd as what holy and prot have. Generate 1 HP
-Art of War should be 4PPM baseline
-Crusader strike cd reverted back to 4.5sec cd. 2 charges is enough
-Hammer of Wrath should be baseline,one of the most iconic abilities since vanilla.
-Wake of Ashes should be baseline,revert cd to 30sec like in legion. The fact that it gives 5 HP fixes the rotation in many ways and makes it more fluid.

The rotation shouldnt be "press the button which is off cd". Skillcap doesnt exist in that case,only latency and input lag. Rotation should be based on decisions,planning,reacting etc. Downtime shouldnt exist or be very small.
The talents shouldnt feel mandatory to make the spec feel wholesome/fluid. They should change the feel/how the spec/abilities works.

-New talent in place of Blade of Wrath - the procs increased dmg is cool,maybe make it crit,or make it apply a dot to burn the target, or some other thing
-New talent in place of Hammer of Wrath - maybe give some procs to HoW, or increase % to 35%, or some other thing
-New talent in place of Wake of Ashes - something like Crusader Strike also hits 2 closest targets for X% dmg,just like zeal or hammer of righteousness shockwave of dmg.
-New talent in place of Consecration - something new to change up Divine Storm,more dmg or less HP cost,maybe the projection from artifact trait.

If all the abilities you mention become baseline they will have to do the same for every other spec in the game or it wont be fair

[Tokas]

he wants 8 rotational abilities for some reason, why... just why... warlocks in cata had that and it was shit, it's much nicer to have less but react to something, like frost dk for example.

[Titans]

Fury is still somewhat predictable even if it is fast. Enhance is RNG heavy.

Like MoP ret, super fast rotation but very predictable, maybe spamming exorcism during any momentary downtime in case art of war procced. Simple rotation but very quick. I liked it, part of why the bfa one feels so clunky.

[Grogplus]

But thats not bad? its okay that people play their specs wrong, there is nothing wrong with having to learn your spec
Its the same as a frost mage spamming frostbolt not using its procs?
Its a dps loss

I agree, I'm just pointing out that it makes sense from the game designer perspective rather than player perspective.

[ipoststuff]

I've played around with both Fires of Justice and Blade of Wrath to post here. I also have divine purpose.

Blade of Wrath is my default choice here. Mostly because of PvP. I use Law and Order PvP talent and BoW talent synergies with it well.
Fires of Justice on a training dummy has less empty GCDs in comparison. But you still get moments where you just wait which doesn't feel great.
I don't think removing cs cooldown is the right thing to do though. Because you can end up with more empty GCDs if you don't play right and removing cs cooldown would lower the difference between a skillful player and a keyboard-smasher.

My suggestion is to change Fires of Justice, to give player more CSs but still care about the cooldown management.

Fires of Justice
Increase the charges of Crusader Strike to 3. Your holy power spenders grant a charge of Crusader Strike.

[Absintheminded]

Repeat after me: Ret. Is. Fine.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Repeat after me: Ret. Is. Fine.

Did you play Mythic + on beta? (120)
There's a massive lack of AoE / cleave or even talent into it.

[Absintheminded]

Did you play Mythic + on beta? (120)
There's a massive lack of AoE / cleave or even talent into it.

There's several AoE talents, but if you feel the need to be top DPS then feel free to level several classes /shrug

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

There's several AoE talents, but if you feel the need to be top DPS then feel free to level several classes /shrug

There’s only one specific AoE talent and that’s Consecration.
DP increases ST and AoE alike and isn’t a "AoE option", Just like Inquisition is equally good at both... Judgement talent isn’t AoE either, even wake of ashes is a strong ST option for holy power gain.

But go ahead and convince me otherwise.

Consecration should be baseline 100% uptime and scaled to be a dps gain on 3 targets or just as a filler. Obviously it shouldn’t generate Holy Power.
The talent should be replaced with Lights Hammer from old expansions but as a 6 second duration "bladestorm-esc" tool + healing. Put it on a 45sec CD and it replaces Consecration.
See this way you have your sustained 3+ target AoE which you can opt to make into a Burst AoE ability through talents.
Judgement Talent can stay as the "priority target dps" option.
Wake of Ashes can stay as the Holy Power button.

[Absintheminded]

There’s only one specific AoE talent and that’s Consecration.
DP increases ST and AoE alike and isn’t a "AoE option", Just like Inquisition is equally good at both... Judgement talent isn’t AoE either, even wake of ashes is a strong ST option for holy power gain.

But go ahead and convince me otherwise.

Consecration should be baseline 100% uptime and scaled to be a dps gain on 3 targets or just as a filler. Obviously it shouldn’t generate Holy Power.
The talent should be replaced with Lights Hammer from old expansions but as a 6 second duration "bladestorm-esc" tool + healing. Put it on a 45sec CD and it replaces Consecration.
See this way you have your sustained 3+ target AoE which you can opt to make into a Burst AoE ability through talents.
Judgement Talent can stay as the "priority target dps" option.
Wake of Ashes can stay as the Holy Power button.

Yeah I was thinking execution sentence was Lights Hammer, but it really doesn't change my opinion. If you want more AoE and Cleave, there are plenty of other DPS specs that provide that.

[nyc81991]

I'd prefer Empowered Divine Storm - it makes for a more interesting rotation, both ST and cleave.

Yeah, Empowered Divine Storm / Divine Crusader procs need to return. Ideally with the old Divine Storm animation as well.

[Titans]

I'd prefer Empowered Divine Storm - it makes for a more interesting rotation, both ST and cleave.

Fully agree, it was rewarding to time the useage well, it was a rotational gap filler in aoe and single target, and felt good to press.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Regardless of Emp DS or Lights Hammer, bouncing Judgements or Hammer of the Righteous...
There’s a serious lack of options that makes ret swap from ST (baseline) to AoE. Which is going to impact Ret demand (or "viability") for heigher content, we don’t even bring big/impactful utility or buffs anymore.

Ask yourself, why bring a ret when most other melee do the same or more? That’s my worry.

[Talon8669]

With the changes to other classes (mainly fire mages) to make early expansion playstyles more fun to play, i don't personally see why crusader strike (and hammer of the righteousness for prot) needs a cooldown? it just slows down the spec in an uneeded way @Low haste values

once you get proper gear, you'd rather hit your bigger abilities anyways, it just removes downtime? and makes classes like ret feel slow for the first 2 raid tiers

Does anyone know blizzards reasoning with this?

Ret isn't meant to be GCD locked it's meant to be CD locked. Having no CD on crusader strike would mean the spec needs to be re-tuned to account for the constant HP generation.