Templates officially gone ?

[Kralljin]

you call it a success.

Yeah, some success.

legion was also the lowest point ever achieved in PvP in world of warcraft.
solely based on that, I call the template system a utter and complete failure. worse: they were a disaster.

Feel free to read my posts above why PvP participation dropped.

you're overthinking this like an artschool teenage student, just try to think on the "templates were very unfun, so they had to be removed" side, its easy to understand.

And you think people will return to PvP once Mythic raiders take a massive dump over them with their OP Trinkets and Weapons?
I don't mind, i raid mythic, but those "dedicated PvP'ers" might have a thing to say about it.

If the reward structure sucks, people aren't going to do said content, it's that simple.

Imagine if M+ only awarded like 890-910 items, no one would give a shit about it.

If the reward structure in BfA is as bad as in Legion, PvP participation isn't going to increase, because no one wants to enter an imbalanced shitshow that doesn't yield any good loot.

[Mafic]

Feel free to read my posts above why PvP participation dropped.



And you think people will return to PvP once Mythic raiders take a massive dump over them with their OP Trinkets and Weapons?
If the reward structure sucks, people aren't going to do said content, it's that simple.

Imagine if M+ only awarded like 890-910 items, no one would give a shit about it.

If the reward structure in BfA is as bad as in Legion, PvP participation isn't going to increase, because no one wants to an imbalanced shitshow that doesn't yield any good loot.

This is true.

Just have to see what Blizz decides to do. Right now it isn't looking good for BFA.

[ilik2345]

This is true.

Just have to see what Blizz decides to do. Right now it isn't looking good for BFA.

Have to second this. So far the reward system for BFA looks identical to what we have now in all but presentation

[Kagthul]

Have to second this. So far the reward system for BFA looks identical to what we have now in all but presentation

Worse, actually, because the -only- way to get Conquest is to do rated, which, historically, the vast majority of people,never did and never wanted to do.

[Mafic]

Worse, actually, because the -only- way to get Conquest is to do rated, which, historically, the vast majority of people,never did and never wanted to do.

Non rated play also rewards conquest in BFA but at a much slower pacing compared to other expansions by completing an arena skirmish win, bg win and 40v40 bg win dailies.

So BFA will have rewards for non rated players to work towards long term like conquest since the seasons will go back to being normal length unlike Legion's shorter seasons.

The odd thing is that Aspirant blue gear is 920 ilevel from boxes in beta when the the first conquest reward is an epic gladiator weapon at 880 ilevel. The other problem is that you can't control the stats on gear and the weapon is the first to be unlocked but it is an axe which most specs can't use. I am assuming it is a placeholder at the moment and the ilevel is a mistake and hopefully each spec received the appropriate weapon reward on live.

Combatant gear should be the intermediate gear between Aspirant and Gladiator but there is no clear indication how combatants will be obtained. If it is similar like Legion than increasing your honor level will increase the champion box rewards from Aspirant to combantants.

The Aspirant gear in beta from champion boxes can warforge so I am assuming it can also titanforge.

All in all there is a lot of testing to be done but the Blizz team needs to be more proactive in making the gearing system for BFA PVP more transparent and clear.

[Kralljin]

Worse, actually, because the -only- way to get Conquest is to do rated, which, historically, the vast majority of people,never did and never wanted to do.

Every PvP actions awards conquest, haven't tried if they award it repeatedly but Unrated BG (both normal and epic) award conquest, there's conquest chests in Open PvP+ Open PvP daily.

[Deleted]

I really think templates had it merits, PvP was much more balanced than before and new characters didn't get slaughtered. On the other hand problem was we couldn't stack preferred stats.

In my opinion pvp should be about skill and not gear. I would like to see something similar to WoD mechanic for example all characters in pvp automatically get 300 ilvl and with full pvp gear get 310 ilvl. Very slight advantage but enough to make people get full pvp gear at least and of course there should be cosmetic armor for 2k+ rating.

[Kagthul]

In my opinion pvp should be about skill and not gear.

Then why are you playing a progression-based MMO where gear mattered in PvP in literally every single expansion and the base game?

I would like to see something similar to WoD mechanic for example all characters in pvp automatically get 300 ilvl and with full pvp gear get 310 ilvl. Very slight advantage but enough to make people get full pvp gear at least and of course there should be cosmetic armor for 2k+ rating.

The WoD mechanic for PvP gear was dead-on. They were dumb as hell to cut it.

- - - Updated - - -

Every PvP actions awards conquest, haven't tried if they award it repeatedly but Unrated BG (both normal and epic) award conquest, there's conquest chests in Open PvP+ Open PvP daily.

I haven't logged back into the beta since the last major update, but in the prior build, they were not.

There was a single weekly that awarded CQ and it was a paltry amount.

Thats where my info was coming from.

And open PvP... yeah, no one is going to bother trying to get Conquest from that. Its an unmitigated shitshow. Healers with all cooldowns getting globaled by melee. DPS getting closed out in 3 hits. Rogues literally killing you before they even de-stealth on your screen.

[Deleted]

Then why are you playing a progression-based MMO where gear mattered in PvP in literally every single expansion and the base game?

Because I enjoy the game and PvP. Just because I don't agree with Blizzard's every decision doesn't mean I can't enjoy the game. I criticize what I don't like and my opinion on this matter is PvP should be an even ground for all and only skill should matter. To give players a feel of progression pvp gear should have a slight advantage and of course there should be cosmetic armor, mounts and other rewards.

[ArkantosChampion]

no Resilience, no PvP Power, no Template.

HYPE HYPE HYPE

[Ethidia]

HYPE HYPE HYPE

I kinda liked the Resilience "era", where you could decide for PvE gear which gave you more dmg, or the PvP gear which gave you a more survivability.

[Kralljin]

I haven't logged back into the beta since the last major update, but in the prior build, they were not.

There was a single weekly that awarded CQ and it was a paltry amount.

Thats where my info was coming from.

Yeah, before they opened up the PvP Server, right? Now the reward structure is "sort of" active.

And open PvP... yeah, no one is going to bother trying to get Conquest from that. Its an unmitigated shitshow. Healers with all cooldowns getting globaled by melee. DPS getting closed out in 3 hits. Rogues literally killing you before they even de-stealth on your screen.

My last info was that templates were supposed to be active if you turn on Warmode, Rogues are still a pain in the ass in solo situations but they far less dangerous in instanced PvP.
Really, getting opened in Open PvP vs. instanced PvP is day and night right now, partially due legendaries but still.

I kinda liked the Resilience "era", where you could decide for PvE gear which gave you more dmg

Yeah, i remember the pvp guy in our guild begging us to drag his characters through Dragon Soul Hc just so he could have a shot at those random drop trinkets and DW weapons because they were OP as fuck.

Or me throwing a 7k Lvb into people's face with 9k max HP because DFO just hit max stacks during the right moment, fun times.

[Deleted]

Please no. Let's not have bad players grinding their way to high rating again. Templates meant the most skilled people win not the people who work IRL the least.

[korijenkins]

The problem with templates is that it gives someone in greens and blues from leveling a chance to fight back against someone in a full set. Just on principle, if I've put in 20 hours of time to getting high level gear, and you just hit 110, you should be a gnat to me in a bg.

If they're truly any good, they should be able to kill me without templates in their leveling gear.

[Nnyco]

This doesn't and hasn't ever worked. Every time they tweaked the templates, they still had to go in and manually adjust a bunch of individual abilities anyway. You cant blanket-tune. It doesn't work.

entire pve legion worked with auras and it was probably the most balanced xpac

[Kagthul]

entire pve legion worked with auras and it was probably the most balanced xpac

They were auras that tuned individual abilities. Read what was written, not what is in your head.

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah, before they opened up the PvP Server, right? Now the reward structure is "sort of" active.



My last info was that templates were supposed to be active if you turn on Warmode, Rogues are still a pain in the ass in solo situations but they far less dangerous in instanced PvP.
Really, getting opened in Open PvP vs. instanced PvP is day and night right now, partially due legendaries but still.



Yeah, i remember the pvp guy in our guild begging us to drag his characters through Dragon Soul Hc just so he could have a shot at those random drop trinkets and DW weapons because they were OP as fuck.

Or me throwing a 7k Lvb into people's face with 9k max HP because DFO just hit max stacks during the right moment, fun times.

uhh... that third quote is not something i said.

[skumnasty]

The WoD system of ilvl going up in PvP was amazing IMO. Rewarded people for PvPing, made it so PVE players didn't easily outgear PvP players, made it so you couldn't easily gear in PvP and take that into PVE, and THEY HAD GEAR VENDORS. Doubt they'd ever bring it back now that they scrapped it, but even if they did I'm not sure how they could incorporate it with WPvP.

[Nnyco]

They were auras that tuned individual abilities. Read what was written, not what is in your head.

no the auras are literally every ability, take your own comment to heart

[barrsftw]

So based on a thing that less than 5% of the player base even participates in, that was so universally disliked that it led to an EIGHTY PERCENT falloff in both rated and unrated PvP participation...

you call it a success.

Yeah, some success.

Do you have sources for these stats?

[Kagthul]

Do you have sources for these stats?

The Armory. All you have to do is search for achievements.

For the Arena numbers, its just extrapolating Blizzards own numbers backwards. Its a pyramidal ladder system. If there are X Gladiators, then there are Y people on the ladder as a whole. Its just simple math.