Beta Key Giveaway Week 3: Winners have been selected!

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  1. #81
    I find it very bizarre that they are enabling PvE trinkets in PvP. Either PvP trinkets will be OP as fuck, or they will push everyone to mythic raiding. PvE trinkets in PvP was one of the biggest problems in WoW PvP (to be fair the human racial made this much worse), and it is the last thing most people meant when they said they wanted gear to matter in PvP.

    I'm also curious exactly how lame the new conquest system will be; how many months of subscriptions it will take someone to get to actually useful gear. My suspicion is that people that don't do any rated PvP will be just as fucked as they were in Legion, if not FAR worse with trinkets dominating.

    Overall I am quite confused with these changes. In Legion it was crystal clear to me that PvP rewards had to be seriously compromised to make room for the extreme RNG and timesinks tied to the revamped PvE reward systems; you can't tell PvErs to buy a lottery ticket for something PvPers can get from a vendor. BfA on the other hand, I haven't quite figured out yet. Seeing how these new systems do not benefit truly casual players however, things are looking pretty grim.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Osanger View Post
    By removing core concepts of what makes a mmo feel like an mmo, and people dont like it, which is why they are gone.
    And if you think people will return if Blizzard just removes them, you're mistaken.

    Quote Originally Posted by shuubi View Post
    So tldr; are templates gone or what?
    As of now? Yes, as you can see on live.
    Question is whether that's intended, because originally they wanted to alter the system, not remove them.

    BfA is horribly unfinished, not exactly a secret anymore.

  3. #83
    Having spent sixty-seventy hours indulging in rated PvP in Legion, I must say that I've found the backlash against templates to be overblown.

    Yes, Legion's reward structure was a huge step down from MoP's, and the template system ended up giving an unfair advantage to raiders over those who actually PvPed, but at the end of the day, the power difference was minimal. Templates gave players a 1% increase in power for every 10 items levels over 800. You can get to ilevel 925 through PvP, and heroic raiding will get you 945 items. It's a 2% difference in power at best. Yes, these small "1-2%" differences in power eventually add up to give players a massive advantage over another, but at the end of the day, a good PvPer is unlikely to be beaten by a raider simply because the raider had a two or even a three percent boost to their power (not counting the 1% of the 1% of raiders who have mythic titanforges and nothing better to do). Even then, PvP in WoW is never a straight up one-on-one scenario unless you either 1. in a casual match or 2. dueling on the open world. The result of a PvP match is determined by which tools a group has access to and how well they can coordinate their usage of said tools.

    My problem with Legion's reward structure isn't how it affects PvP, but how it affects how you play the game outside of PvP. Blizzard has centered WoW's progression around climbing the ilevel ladder. The goal has been, and always will be, to increase your ilevel, with the people who put in the most time and effort getting the highest ilevel. The problem with Legion's reward structure is that it doesn't matter if you pour forty hours into rated PvP every season; you're ilevel will always be on par with the people who spent five hours on Argus and in Antorus LFRs. If you're getting combatant achievements, you've proven that you know your class and how to coordinate with a group. You should be permitted to participate in the PvE equivalent of rated PvP content, that being heroics and mythics. Unfortunately, because you're ilevel is on par with LFR and Argus questers, you'll have to pour another forty hours into raiding just to climb another ladder just to begin that content. Meanwhile, heroic raiders who have climbed their ladder and proven their ability to play their class and coordinate can jump right in to rated PvP no problem. See the double standard?

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  4. #84
    Brewmaster torish's Avatar
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    I wonder why it needs iteration after interation before blizzard gets it right.

    Is it hard to understand people dont want to be instagibbed by better equipped players?
    Is it hard to understand that people want rewards for doing pvp, and that there are close to none in matchmade battlegrounds?
    Is it hard to understand that world pvp will not survive very long if it is heavily unfair?

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    And if you think people will return if Blizzard just removes them, you're mistaken.
    You underestimate what the majority of the player base wants, thats why you dont get why they are gone.

    People will be returning not just because templates are gone but because pvp will actually be a rewarding experience again and gear matters. Its an mmo, theres LOL if you dont like that side of things.

  6. #86
    No templates in Arena is a ludicrous notion for anyone wishing for balance.

    Time to ignore the feature as a lawful player and let the butchers butcher each others.

  7. #87
    I never would have thought I would miss templates so much. PvPing on any alt is impossible now. Why did they remove them in the first place?
    They're parking their car there.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by BonesDeLarge View Post
    I never would have thought I would miss templates so much. PvPing on any alt is impossible now. Why did they remove them in the first place?
    Because there is nothing more ideal than starting a pvp-centric expansion by removing the actual safeguarding measure that allowed equity and fairness to be somehow maintained amongst players regardless of their previous implications in the current and past content.

    Truly a brilliant way to produce deterrence for many a newcomer or returning pvp enthusiast ; if deterrence was indeed their ambition there, that is.
    Last edited by Belturone; 2018-07-19 at 03:43 AM.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Osanger View Post
    People will be returning not just because templates are gone but because pvp will actually be a rewarding experience again and gear matters.
    You can only guess that it will be a rewarding experience again.
    Because without resilience, it will be just like in Legion, if PvE gear is easier to acquire, that's the better way to gear yourself even for PvP, period.

    Especially if Trinkets and other PvE shenanigans also work in PvP.

    Quote Originally Posted by BonesDeLarge View Post
    I never would have thought I would miss templates so much. PvPing on any alt is impossible now. Why did they remove them in the first place?
    Because some people still believe the template system was the root cause of drop in PvP participation.

    Other options like:
    1.PvE being more rewarding
    2.PvP having shit + random rewards
    3.A lot Players only seeing PvP as side game and the increase of PvE Content (M+) made them disregard PvP

    No, none of these issues, just the template system.
    Last edited by Kralljin; 2018-07-19 at 02:54 PM.

  10. #90
    PvP s currently a horrible joke. Everyone dies in 2 globals.

    It was much better with the templates. Like, by FAR. T'was a mistake to remove them. PvP is back to the gutter it was pre-Legion.

  11. #91
    What is really frustrating is that there is no info about this in the patch notes? How am I supposed to know what works in PvP now, and what doesn't? Do set bonuses work? Enchants? On use items? Does it matter what trinkets I wear in pvp now? Where is the blog post about this? Heads up?

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    And if you think people will return if Blizzard just removes them, you're mistaken.



    As of now? Yes, as you can see on live.
    Question is whether that's intended, because originally they wanted to alter the system, not remove them.

    BfA is horribly unfinished, not exactly a secret anymore.
    Pvp seems like a complete mess. Its like they have no plans and removed every restriction from pvp. Right now no gear scaling and no template, if we go into BfA like this then mythic raiders will rule pvp.

  13. #93
    If they actually go for no more templates and go back to "let the mythic players stomp everyone" well good bye pvp it is. WHY THE FUCK can't we have fair pvp?

  14. #94
    Herald of the Titans Lazuli's Avatar
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    Templates in casual BGs is incredibly boring, there should be a baseline stat templates so you are't completely fucked as a new max lvl but gear should definitely matter. It's what makes BGs fun. In rated pvp there should absolutely be templates. Pvp was sooooooooooooooooo fucking boring in Legion. Arena was dead as fuck, near impssible to keep partners and removal of teams is still massively fucking us over cuz no one wants to stay and put in the effort anymore. Rage quits after 1 match and on to the next LFG.. lel. Pvp fucking sucks now may as well let us have some fun!

    I hope BGs make a return in BfA I really do because I have 0 hope for arena.
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