Is Aff BfA Warlock that bad?

[Cainium]

And for many of us that alone is a massive improvement. But yes, it is a very polarizing choice.

IMO the "improvement" will backfire as long as SB doesn't have any interaction with the spec as a whole (which drain soul still has as a resource generator). I don't count Shadow Embrace 'cause for me it is just an altered version of Haunt: a maintenance debuff (which works even better with drain soul than with SB).

So i'm looking forward to how this develops as soon as BfA launches and if there will be any changes in opinions about this or Blizzard make a finally full commitment to one of those two options. 'Cause as of now the talents look like "build your own aff lock". Nightfall+Shadow Embrace+Siphon Life = old style Aff, DS+Haunt+Siphon=MoP Aff, DS+Shadow Embrace=Legion aff (as far as it comes close, UA is still a maintenace debuff now), Deathbolt+anything else=a complete mixed up mess.

Don't think people will like this for a very long time.

[Veyne]

I'm not saying it isn't different, I'm saying I find it weird that people feel so incredibly strong about it.

I have a preference as well, but one or the other isn't going to make or break the spec for me. While others have literally said the spec is "unplayable" with one or the other.

Legion Affliction isn't "unplayable" to me, but definitely feels like wading-through-molasses levels of slow and boring. The only fun I get out the spec right now is speccing Sow the Seeds on large AoE, because boom. I mostly don't like the MG drain cycles, especially on ST fights where your soul doohickies aren't proccing for shit.

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So i'm looking forward to how this develops as soon as BfA launches and if there will be any changes in opinions about this or Blizzard make a finally full commitment to one of those two options. 'Cause as of now the talents look like "build your own aff lock". Nightfall+Shadow Embrace+Siphon Life = old style Aff, DS+Haunt+Siphon=MoP Aff, DS+Shadow Embrace=Legion aff (as far as it comes close, UA is still a maintenace debuff now), Deathbolt+anything else=a complete mixed up mess.

Don't think people will like this for a very long time.

Deathbolt definitely feels messy. I was interested in it at first, but after trying it, it's just ugh.

I plan on main speccing Demo, but I'll actually enjoy Affliction almost as much if Nightfall + Siphon Life + Haunt is viable. With Haunt back to being a near full uptime spell you cast on cooldown, it feels as close to WotLK Affliction as it can get. It's currently a toss up between Creeping Death and Dark Soul for the 100 tier. Creeping Death makes the standard rotation even more fun, but I also like having strong cooldowns

[Deleted]

Hello there.

I've been following this thread for some time now and i decided to post my opinion about Affliction atm (legion) and some questions in BFA.
I mostly play RBG´s and arenas and not much pve tbh, (using destro for raiding) but in pvp i really think we are in are pretty good spot right now. the DS with the healing and the strong execute makes in my opinion a really strong combo for single target damage and survival. Using talents like Contagion, Soul Harvest, Deaths Embrace, plus the artifact weapon power we can melt anything in a blink of an eye. Using DS was a filler is also perfect in arena BG´s when your target is running around and getting out of los, so the shadow bolt replace was a filler at least in pvp doesn't feel pretty good on my pov. Have any one tried the DS talent in BFA in pvp? how does it feel?

[apepi1337]

You know what I find amazing? How many people talk about the change with drain soul. It wasn't so long ago a few of my lock friends quit playing because of the change from shadow bolt. Here we are now talking about how the spec feels clunky because it isn't the same as Legion. The afflic spec in Wrath is by far the most fluid the spec has ever been and the filler was shadow bolt. I also find I can be near the top of meters when it matters in every single expansion to date. Maybe not the very top but competitive enough to be valid.

As for PvP. The game will never be balanced for 1v1 so don't base your expectations on it. An afflic lock in 3v3, even being squishy, has always been stellar. The pressure the dots put on the healer are tremendous. Kite and dot. Stay in the back and rain death. There is no other class in the game that can put sustained pressure on multiple targets in PvP as afflic. However, be prepared to be targeted a lot.

Just my two cents. When reading forums about locks I get the feeling there is not as many people who have played this class or game for very long. Last couple expansions at the most. But to each their own.

[Cainium]

Here we are now talking about how the spec feels clunky because it isn't the same as Legion. The afflic spec in Wrath is by far the most fluid the spec has ever been and the filler was shadow bolt.

This is a good point. Comparing two complete different spec designs and saying "design 1 was good with spell X, so design 2 can't get worse with spell X". That's the point why (at least for me, and i think your response targets my posts too) i say it's "clunky" now, not because it's different from Legion.

[Gallowz]

You know what I find amazing? How many people talk about the change with drain soul. It wasn't so long ago a few of my lock friends quit playing because of the change from shadow bolt. Here we are now talking about how the spec feels clunky because it isn't the same as Legion. The afflic spec in Wrath is by far the most fluid the spec has ever been and the filler was shadow bolt. I also find I can be near the top of meters when it matters in every single expansion to date. Maybe not the very top but competitive enough to be valid.

As for PvP. The game will never be balanced for 1v1 so don't base your expectations on it. An afflic lock in 3v3, even being squishy, has always been stellar. The pressure the dots put on the healer are tremendous. Kite and dot. Stay in the back and rain death. There is no other class in the game that can put sustained pressure on multiple targets in PvP as afflic. However, be prepared to be targeted a lot.

Just my two cents. When reading forums about locks I get the feeling there is not as many people who have played this class or game for very long. Last couple expansions at the most. But to each their own.

I agree that moving away from the Dot into Drain play-style is an upgrade. I don't agree that Wrath was Affliction's most "fluid" design. I think that Affliction in MoP was by far the most fluid - I REALLY miss MoP Soul Swap and snap-shotting our dots.

[Bullarkie]

But we got Shadow Bolt!

</sarcasm>

Affliction is one of my favorite specs but rerolled Monk since it's been gutted. Destro and Demo are pretty good though.

[apepi1337]

I agree that moving away from the Dot into Drain play-style is an upgrade. I don't agree that Wrath was Affliction's most "fluid" design. I think that Affliction in MoP was by far the most fluid - I REALLY miss MoP Soul Swap and snap-shotting our dots.

For fluid I was saying in what order you cast and the constant nature of hitting a button and the speed was always a constant pace. I agree soul swap was amazing but it only helped on two target bosses or when something was going to die and you needed to apply dots to the next target. It really didn't change our rotations. It also was introduced in Cata.

[abtwosix]

affl lock was best in wotlk amiright?

[Deleted]

For fluid I was saying in what order you cast and the constant nature of hitting a button and the speed was always a constant pace. I agree soul swap was amazing but it only helped on two target bosses or when something was going to die and you needed to apply dots to the next target. It really didn't change our rotations. It also was introduced in Cata.

Can't say I've ever thought SS was particularly good - back when it was first added in Cata it had a cooldown and was useful for making afflictions ramp slightly less of a drawback if you needed to swap to an add, but it was still weak enough that it was usually better to just leave the adds to other people in your raid - if your raid couldn't deal with the adds then it was unlikely that the affliction warlock not swapping was the issue, it was the people who HAD target swapping dps not playing well.

In MOP it was complete and utter cancer to the spec and replaced multidotting. One of the main things that made me loath MOP / modern affliction design.

It was either completely unimpactful to the point that even my anti-pruning self wouldn't care if it was gone or completely dominated the spec to breaking point.

affl lock was best in wotlk amiright?

Or Cataclysm - there was a pretty steady progression through TBC -> WOTLK -> Cata of the spec being refined. Cataclysm design was good enough to keep me subbed, playing and enjoying myself through Dragonsoul despite it being a tier where I said I was quitting the game if raids were like that in MOP, but WOTLK had 5 dot Naxx which was pretty fun.

Any steps taken to move the spec closer towards WOTLK / Cataclysm is something I'll love though, getting SB back is one of them - it's just unfortunate that the drain execute cycle has been lost. It feels like I keep getting parts of the jigsaw back but another piece is removed in the process.

[apepi1337]

Any steps taken to move the spec closer towards WOTLK / Cataclysm is something I'll love though, getting SB back is one of them - it's just unfortunate that the drain execute cycle has been lost. It feels like I keep getting parts of the jigsaw back but another piece is removed in the process.

This is exactly how I feel, and my old lock friends would agree. The drain soul execute phase was on point. I am willing to go without it. Nothing like getting into the fight and missing that the boss was in execute range and you were still SB'ing away.