Does Blizzard still think personal loot should be forced in BFA for EVERYBODY?

[Deleted]

I don't see an issue with PL. as long as people can trade items that they don't want, it's fine.

To be able to trade unwanted raid gear, people will need to farm non-raid high ilvl content to set their own "tradeable" ilvl for each slot as high as possible. This will be the difference between teamplayers in good guilds and entitled egoistic monkeys. This will force people to spend more time in the game overall. Especially at new raid tier launches, or other average ilvl increase moments.

[Relapses]

Yet another change to fix an issue that isn't an issue. It's obvious why it's controversial because frankly it's really, really fucking stupid; but it's more indicative of a change in philosophy by the developers. It's no longer about giving people tools to increase efficiency, it's about increasing the need to grind literally fucking everything at every fucking level of play for every player. In the process, they're alienating some of the most loyal players of their game... sadly, this is a demographic Blizzard cares less and less about so I doubt anything will change moving forward.

[kamuimac]

https://news.blizzard.com/en-us/worl...tfixes-june-26

Most of the loot you're capable of trading is due to having a legendary item covering that slot. In BfA you will only be able to trade items that has the same item level or lower than any item you have ever received in that slot. For example, if you were to loot a 250 bracer for the first time you wouldn't be able to trade it, but even if you sell or disenchant it you will be able to trade all future bracer's of item level 250 or lower on that character.

and it wont matter in 99% of cases besides rings. pls do yourself and many other a favour and learn how items bugets and stats scaling on gear work on beta.

will there be ocasional case when a 5 itlv higher item with worst secondaries be worse then what you wear? you have maaaybe 1 % chance of it - oh hell lets go crazy - 3 % - but not higher. only difference will be rings and i cant see raid breaking up over a person not geting a ring that they want.

[Deleted]

and it wont matter in 99% of cases besides rings. pls do yourself and many other a favour and learn how items bugets and stats scaling on gear work on beta.

will there be ocasional case when a 5 itlv higher item with worst secondaries be worse then what you wear? you have maaaybe 1 % chance of it - oh hell lets go crazy - 3 % - but not higher. only difference will be rings and i cant see raid breaking up over a person not geting a ring that they want.

They give you all these scenarios of woe, but bottom line it's the loss of control and privilege.

That's why:

a. there are so few of them (as privilege by definition is enjoyed by a tiny minority)

b. they are extremely emotionally invested in maintaining the privilege (to the point of unsubbing since *playing WOW* without playing God of Loot over other people doesn't even mean anything to them. Without it they may as well unsub.)

c. they are hoping against hope to foment some kind of "outrage" that would make Blizzard reverse course and re-enable the Gods of Loot in their own game

Of course they cannot really quote (a)/(b) as a basis of any kind of argument in support of (c) so they concoct stories such as inability to trade BiS trinkets, inability to bring they grandma and "friends" to HC-funneled runs etc. etc. All sounding very benign but in their very essence completely inane.

[asil]

They give you all these scenarios of woe, but bottom line it's the loss of control and privilege.

That's why:

a. there are so few of them (as privilege by definition is enjoyed by a tiny minority)

b. they are extremely emotionally invested in maintaining the privilege (to the point of unsubbing since *playing WOW* without playing God of Loot over other people doesn't even mean anything to them. Without it they may as well unsub.)

c. they are hoping against hope to foment some kind of "outrage" that would make Blizzard reverse course and re-enable the Gods of Loot in their own game

Of course they cannot really quote (a)/(b) as a basis of any kind of argument in support of (c) so they concoct stories such as inability to trade BiS trinkets, inability to bring they grandma and "friends" to HC-funneled runs etc. etc. All sounding very benign but in their very essence completely inane.

Or, you know, people like handing out loot to where it needs to go. And, you know, not having trials snipe up mounts/bis gear due to personal loot.

There's zero rational basis to defend forcing personal loot on everyone. If you don't want to raid with ML, then don't raid with ML.

[Deleted]

They give you all these scenarios of woe, but bottom line it's the loss of control and privilege.

That's why:

a. there are so few of them (as privilege by definition is enjoyed by a tiny minority)

b. they are extremely emotionally invested in maintaining the privilege (to the point of unsubbing since *playing WOW* without playing God of Loot over other people doesn't even mean anything to them. Without it they may as well unsub.)

c. they are hoping against hope to foment some kind of "outrage" that would make Blizzard reverse course and re-enable the Gods of Loot in their own game

Of course they cannot really quote (a)/(b) as a basis of any kind of argument in support of (c) so they concoct stories such as inability to trade BiS trinkets, inability to bring they grandma and "friends" to HC-funneled runs etc. etc. All sounding very benign but in their very essence completely inane.

Your world must be a terrible place to live in. I'm sorry for you.

[lappee]

and it wont matter in 99% of cases besides rings. pls do yourself and many other a favour and learn how items bugets and stats scaling on gear work on beta.

will there be ocasional case when a 5 itlv higher item with worst secondaries be worse then what you wear? you have maaaybe 1 % chance of it - oh hell lets go crazy - 3 % - but not higher. only difference will be rings and i cant see raid breaking up over a person not geting a ring that they want.

But it will matter in a huge amount of cases when you actually think whats good for the raid rather than whats personally good for you.

Whenever you get a 5 ilvl upgrade (WF/TF) you can't trade it to a guy who'd get 15, heck even 30 ilvl's from it. Thats a huge loss for the raid. Then you have trinkets and rings that might not even be dps upgrades with being ilvl upgrades.

On top of that you have azerite gear that is straight down untradeable

PL is simply worse than ML and going to feel bad for people who care about the success of the guild rather than their own e-peen.

[Nnyco]

All I care about is that they don't force personal loot in old soloable raids anymore. Is that change going live with the pre-patch or at launch?

old raids will give loot to the group as if there were 20 people in it, even when youre alone

[Raelbo]

I never said anything about competitive guilds. People have been saying this is a change made for the casual guilds. If the casual guilds aren't ALREADY using PL, that means the majority prefer ML.

The people complaining about this change aren't the casuals, it's the mythic raiders. My understanding of the situation is that most casual raiding guilds do already use PL.

Anyway it doesn't really matter whether you're talking about casual or hardcore, the same principle applies. The choice of using ML isn't necessarily based on preference rather than using what is results in the most optimum gearing. It is also, incidentally, the preferred looting mechanism for guild leaders who want to be selfish with gear (not necessarily for the good of the guild but purely for themselves and their friends).

And I'll go ahead and prove you a liar right now:

Jeez, talk about being dramatic. I have stated an opinion based on what I genuinely believe. If I am actually wrong, that doesn't make a liar, like it was my intent to present some fact I know to be wrong. At worst it makes me mistaken. Calm down.

I prefer seeing other people in my runs get gear first. I already know what I can do, I already know I can handle myself and perform well enough. Seeing other people get gear is preferable to me because it means I know they'll do better. They can survive being slower to get out of the fire, they can put out more damage while they slowly move from A to B... AND if I'm the worst-geared person in my run, I don't feel as bad if I die to a mechanic; because I'm not as big a percentage of the DPS as I could be.

I can't really say this makes much sense to me. It almost sounds as if you're happy to give everyone else loot first because then it means you don't have to feel responsible if you fail? But at the same time you seem to indicate that you're better at the game than those other people who you donate your gear to? I mean, I could understand if you were the weakest link in your raid group that you're happy to give all your gear to people who will make better use of it, but if you're actually the strongest (or one of) then surely it would make more sense for team for the gear to go to you.

But ok whatever. I'll accept that you are a genuine minority player who prefers being last on the list for gear. I'll amend my assertion if it makes you happy:

Almost no one prefers seeing all the best loot consistently going to other people over getting their fair share for themselves. But we do it willingly because it's how you game the system.

So no. There are people who DO prefer seeing the best loot consistently go to others. It's only selfish people who are convinced that EVERYONE wants all their loot and wants it now.

I never said anything about wanting all the loot and wanting it now. My point is that getting a gear upgrade is a nice feeling (for the vast majority of players).

Furthermore, wanting something isn't selfish. Selfish is doing what we want without consideration for the greater good. PL allows players to get what they want more often without having to be selfish.

[kamuimac]

But it will matter in a huge amount of cases when you actually think whats good for the raid rather than whats personally good for you.

Whenever you get a 5 ilvl upgrade (WF/TF) you can't trade it to a guy who'd get 15, heck even 30 ilvl's from it. Thats a huge loss for the raid. Then you have trinkets and rings that might not even be dps upgrades with being ilvl upgrades.

On top of that you have azerite gear that is straight down untradeable

PL is simply worse than ML and going to feel bad for people who care about the success of the guild rather than their own e-peen.

and it will be a good change. this will allow blizzard to tune content lower since due to lack of extremal targeting gearing overall teams wont be getting as much power each week and facerolling content too soon

[Kaver]

Trials will not be brought for end-bosses before all of the main team have gotten their mounts. Good job Blizz

[Keltas]

and it will be a good change. this will allow blizzard to tune content lower since due to lack of extremal targeting gearing overall teams wont be getting as much power each week and facerolling content too soon

Except they won't.

they'll keep it tuned as if you are one of the lucky PL people, plenty of people will be left behind by their guild purely because they weren't lucky, and we will all move on and deal with it, because blizzard won't change it.

The only thing I expect them to change is the rate that mail gear drops. They'll see how much lower ilvl mail users are when they are the only one in their guild and have nobody to trade with.

[lappee]

and it will be a good change. this will allow blizzard to tune content lower since due to lack of extremal targeting gearing overall teams wont be getting as much power each week and facerolling content too soon

If they wanted to reduce gearing speed they could've implemented any of the dozen systems that do exactly that without fucking up loot systems.

How Blizzard will tune the content is likely irrelevant, WF race will be over at the end of the 3rd Mythic reset by the latest and the first 80% of the bosses will be facerolled.
If somehow a miracle happens (aka Blizzard fucks up tuning) and WF guilds are stuck on 2nd to 4th boss for multiple days then Blizz will just nerf it as they want to keep ~linear difficulty among the bosses, unless all the rest of the bosses are even more difficult (something that has never happened) which will cause those rank +100 guilds whine about "this instance too difficult, can't kill 2nd boss".

Its simply a bad change and as you can see all your points were instantly countered.

[kamuimac]

If they wanted to reduce gearing speed they could've implemented any of the dozen systems that do exactly that without fucking up loot systems.

How Blizzard will tune the content is likely irrelevant, WF race will be over at the end of the 3rd Mythic reset by the latest and the first 80% of the bosses will be facerolled.
If somehow a miracle happens (aka Blizzard fucks up tuning) and WF guilds are stuck on 2nd to 4th boss for multiple days then Blizz will just nerf it as they want to keep ~linear difficulty among the bosses, unless all the rest of the bosses are even more difficult (something that has never happened) which will cause those rank +100 guilds whine about "this instance too difficult, can't kill 2nd boss".

Its simply a bad change and as you can see all your points were instantly countered.

You didnt counter anything all you speculated is "would could should " scenarios . Its as pointless as aby other argument since ml is gone forever now and its the best change that happened to game sińce forever for players

[Deja Thoris]

You didnt counter anything all you speculated is "would could should " scenarios . Its as pointless as aby other argument since ml is gone forever now and its the best change that happened to game sińce forever for players

Why is it though? I've still never seen a decent answer to why ML can't stay for those that want it? People that don't like ML don't have to use it...

[lappee]

You didnt counter anything all you speculated is "would could should " scenarios . Its as pointless as aby other argument since ml is gone forever now and its the best change that happened to game sińce forever for players

Loot is random thus we must speculate the drops. Your arguments on behalf of the change are also speculative "would could should" scenarios so by your own logic they're pointless points to be made.

Forcing PL on everyone is a bad change overall, thats what the facts state. You can base your opinion on your hopes and dreams as much as you like, just stop spouting them to anybody else than yourself in front of a mirror.

[LookingForGroup]

Why not? Guilds are NOT designed for raiding. If your guild is built for raid, it was wrong in the first place and should be killed.

[MisterBigglez]

They seem to think so, despite multiple reasons as to why it is a bad idea to enforce such a rule. The only people saying it's good are those who were already using personal loot to begin with, so they shouldn't even have a say in the matter.

[LookingForGroup]

They seem to think so, despite multiple reasons as to why it is a bad idea to enforce such a rule. The only people saying it's good are those who were already using personal loot to begin with, so they shouldn't even have a say in the matter.

Guilds ARE NOT designed for raiding. They should be killed. I agree ALL changes which will diminish raiding guilds because they are objectively corrupt and bad. They take away of resources which shouldn't be put in the first place.

[MisterBigglez]

Guilds ARE NOT designed for raiding. They should be killed. I agree ALL changes which will diminish raiding guilds because they are objectively corrupt and bad. They take away of resources which shouldn't be put in the first place.

What are they designed for then?