Does Blizzard still think personal loot should be forced in BFA for EVERYBODY?

[Taeldorian]

The master loot system allowed these problems to happen. It put your gaming experience in the hands of toxic players and potentially could ruin an entire week of fun for you. You could've gone through 10+ guilds until you found one that did it correctly. You just got lucky. How would that be enjoyable at all?

That’s completely innacurate. I put my own gaming experience in the hands of toxic players. I did that, not master loot. I joined a random guild that had the raid progress I wanted at the time and I knew they used master loot. It was my choice to join, master loot didn’t make me do anything.

On the other hand, if you say master loot allowed these problems to happen then what about personal loot? Back when I pugged a lot of m+/raids I was harassed a ton for loot. I’ve had players tell me I’m garbage because I didn’t give them loot they wanted because I needed it. There is very obvious harassment issues with personal loot especially within pugs which I believe the majority of people participate in. Not only that but it promotes this toxicity while also promoting loot whoring and selfishness. Another example is transmog, I’ve had people tell me to fuck off because they wanted something for transmog when it was a huge upgrade for me. That’s fine, I get it’s there loot but that’s a very selfish mentality to have.

And now players are going to have that exact mentality going into heroic/mythic raid guilds. “What’s mine is mine everyone else can fuck off” isn’t a mentality that’s healthy or positive in an environment that should be promoting teamwork to the best degree possible. Yeah this really sounds great for the game. Exactly what it needed.

Master loot and personal loot should be options. Neither of these should be forced on the game. Do you remember how bad forced group loot was in LFR? People would roll need on shit they didn’t need just to spite people. So, these should both be options so guilds/pugs can go with whatever option they please. If you decide to join a guild that uses ML and it’s a no name guild then any consequences that come with that are on you, not the system. It works the same way with personal loot, if you join a guild that uses PL and you end up asking people for gear they don’t need that you do and they don’t give it to you, those are consequences you need to accept as your own fault for joining that environment.

[Keren]

You do understand that only a certain amount of gear drops when a boss dies, right? Regardless of loot system, it's limited.Progression as a guild hinges on keeping as much of that gear as possible within the guild and on characters that show up long-term.

No, I dont understand. Personal loot is not influenced by the encounter you slay or the group size - its in fact personal. You can raid with 30 people and only see 4 people get loot on a given fight or do the same thing with only 12 people and see 8 items.


Don't get me wrong, for guild progression - tunneling gear and using ML and councils is the better way. But I dont like to see people beeing entitled to the loot of others (as in personal now) or people saying if a trial gets loot in personal its like stealing from the guild.

[kamuimac]

No they don't. They have contributed nothing and if they weren't there the content would still get cleared, their presence is just for evaluation.

luckily blizzard agrees with me not with you and there is nothing you can do to change it only to welcome superior more fair loot system with open arms

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"Raiding" in a supposedly good guild under PL I saw a guy repeatedly pretend to disenchant the loot he got (by disenchanting something else). He claimed it was to troll others. Took a while to prove he was doing it to toss the items to his buddies instead. Then he became the GM. Then I left (he was giving a platform to his very toxic and abusive buddies because they thought it was fun). Then the guild died after years of activity.

Oh - loot distribution systems are toxic. Not people. Legit.

Also - raider.io is toxic. Wowprogress too. Obviously gearscore. People never are. Tools though ... Yep. Legit.

Congratulations on finding the real culprits and crying that others (Blizz) do something about them, while at the same time staying in shi@ty guilds and avoiding to call out and face toxic people. Melting snowflakes.

Thank you for showing me where I need to be extra careful to grow my kids into decent people. For real.

you are always free to leave the game and go play something else which allows such toxic abusive behaviour if its the main part that attracted you to playing wow

and in the same time milions more people will come back to raiding with guilds now that loot will be finally distributed fairly

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Tbh the only people who hate loot council is because they play like garbage and expect to be rewarded for it.

Fuck personal loot.

quoting wow " feed me with ur anger"

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I raid Mythic, and I've never taken recruits or trials to bosses during progression. That's something you do when your guild is on the verge of failure. I've taken recruits / trials AFTER progression to gear them up for next tier, but I've never taken them during progression. That just shows poor recruiting in a healthy guild or that a guild is unhealthy.

If you NEED them there to do progression, then they should be getting something out of it. But then I guess if a guild doesn't plan ahead on recruitment or doesn't have enough of a roster for progression for whatever reason then they're probably not capable of thinking that far ahead anyway. It's literally one or two pieces of gear or you running a same server pug by taking multiple recruits along to progression? What are you even doing that there are multiple recruits or trials in your progression raid?

This change is only bad for control freaks. Everyone else will adjust.

what you describe is proving how deatached far far away from reality are top mythic guilds who have no clue how brutal it is in lower tier mythic guilds where all this toxic shit happens.

but i dont blame you - you dont see it simply because you clear content fast and then have months to try out trials. most of guilds desperately need trials during progress and then all this shit happens - when they bring in trials who contribute to kills and then get no loot.

thats why this change was bound to happen eventually

[Deleted]

Ok then, well when your "trials" get loot and then ditch you a few week later or simply quit while your dedicated raid team gets nothing, frustrated and leave, you come back and tell me how this is a good idea

[RoKPaNda]

what you describe is proving how deatached far far away from reality are top mythic guilds who have no clue how brutal it is in lower tier mythic guilds where all this toxic shit happens.

but i dont blame you - you dont see it simply because you clear content fast and then have months to try out trials. most of guilds desperately need trials during progress and then all this shit happens - when they bring in trials who contribute to kills and then get no loot.

thats why this change was bound to happen eventually

I'm all for the change actually.

[burek]

Ok then, well when your "trials" get loot and then ditch you a few week later or simply quit while your dedicated raid team gets nothing, frustrated and leave, you come back and tell me how this is a good idea

Your dedicated raid team gets nothing? What? The trial being present doesn't take loot from anyone. In those few weeks your dedicated raid team will get as much loot as if you were only 19 or whatever. And if you whine about people that are benched missing out on potential loot, you wouldn't bench them for trials if they were your 'dedicated raid team'. Not to mention that was the price you always had to pay.

[lappee]

Your dedicated raid team gets nothing? What? The trial being present doesn't take loot from anyone. In those few weeks your dedicated raid team will get as much loot as if you were only 19 or whatever. And if you whine about people that are benched missing out on potential loot, you wouldn't bench them for trials if they were your 'dedicated raid team'. Not to mention that was the price you always had to pay.

But he does take the chance from the person he got the spot from. If the guild doesn't have 20 people then he doesn't take it from anyone (yet does when compared to ML system).

There simply isn't a reason, outside of serious need for a filler on progress, to take trials in the raid during progress. The trials that cried they won't get loot with ML now won't even get into the raid but I guess they prefer it.

[Deleted]

Your dedicated raid team gets nothing? What? The trial being present doesn't take loot from anyone. In those few weeks your dedicated raid team will get as much loot as if you were only 19 or whatever. And if you whine about people that are benched missing out on potential loot, you wouldn't bench them for trials if they were your 'dedicated raid team'. Not to mention that was the price you always had to pay.

I'm obviously referring to people who join guilds with the intention of getting gear and then leaving for a better guild. with personal loot forced...

[Grusalugg]

I don't know. You better ask them.

[Deleted]

No ML option on any client as of today. I guess that answers the OP.

[Tharkkun]

That’s completely innacurate. I put my own gaming experience in the hands of toxic players. I did that, not master loot. I joined a random guild that had the raid progress I wanted at the time and I knew they used master loot. It was my choice to join, master loot didn’t make me do anything.

On the other hand, if you say master loot allowed these problems to happen then what about personal loot? Back when I pugged a lot of m+/raids I was harassed a ton for loot. I’ve had players tell me I’m garbage because I didn’t give them loot they wanted because I needed it. There is very obvious harassment issues with personal loot especially within pugs which I believe the majority of people participate in. Not only that but it promotes this toxicity while also promoting loot whoring and selfishness. Another example is transmog, I’ve had people tell me to fuck off because they wanted something for transmog when it was a huge upgrade for me. That’s fine, I get it’s there loot but that’s a very selfish mentality to have.

And now players are going to have that exact mentality going into heroic/mythic raid guilds. “What’s mine is mine everyone else can fuck off” isn’t a mentality that’s healthy or positive in an environment that should be promoting teamwork to the best degree possible. Yeah this really sounds great for the game. Exactly what it needed.

Master loot and personal loot should be options. Neither of these should be forced on the game. Do you remember how bad forced group loot was in LFR? People would roll need on shit they didn’t need just to spite people. So, these should both be options so guilds/pugs can go with whatever option they please. If you decide to join a guild that uses ML and it’s a no name guild then any consequences that come with that are on you, not the system. It works the same way with personal loot, if you join a guild that uses PL and you end up asking people for gear they don’t need that you do and they don’t give it to you, those are consequences you need to accept as your own fault for joining that environment.

Those same jerks you describe can be found in any guild with an actual loot system also. Have you never been harassed over winning a drop over someone else because you purchased it with DKP/EPGP or were awarded it by the council? You've never seen people throw tantrums the first time a trinket drops they feel they deserve just because they are top DPS? Personal loot won't fix those individuals who are not team players. That's up to your guild to weed those people out.

What it fixes is the distribution being decided by a few players who may or may not be toxic when making their decisions.

I remember group loot. Every guild would stack people to roll for each other and trade because you'd have 4-5 groups in there doing the same thing. It was turned into personal loot because people abused the system. Remember the guild that was suspended for a week for doing it?

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Except ML and loot council were fair if you were in a fair guild which large majority are, just because you didn't feel like its fair (aka "I did good, give me loot" when you died to first mechanic) doesn't mean it wasn't fair.
Abusive players will still find ways to abuse even with forced PL, as shown multiple times in this thread.

You can't abuse personal loot. You can be a dickhead but the loot system didn't cause that player to act that way. They would've done the same in any loot system.

[lappee]

You can't abuse personal loot. You can be a dickhead but the loot system didn't cause that player to act that way. They would've done the same in any loot system.

You could be a dickhead with ML but the loot system didn't cause that player to act that way, you can be a dickhead with PL too. So with your logic no player abused ML, they were just "dickheads".
"Abusive" people will stay "abusive" and the loot system change won't change that.

Forced PL for guilds just isn't a good change.

[Tharkkun]

You could be a dickhead with ML but the loot system didn't cause that player to act that way, you can be a dickhead with PL too. So with your logic no player abused ML, they were just "dickheads".
"Abusive" people will stay "abusive" and the loot system change won't change that.

Forced PL for guilds just isn't a good change.

If the loot system change causes someone to be a dickhead then they always were one. They just fooled you into thinking otherwise. Now that they can't control you their true self comes out. Just like a control freak girlfriend or boyfriend. They will be super happy and nice all the time until they are told no. Then they lose their shit. Entitlement, spoiled, Daddy never told them no, Mom ran over their pet frog. Whatever you want to call it.

[lappee]

If the loot system change causes someone to be a dickhead then they always were one. They just fooled you into thinking otherwise. Now that they can't control you their true self comes out. Just like a control freak girlfriend or boyfriend. They will be super happy and nice all the time until they are told no. Then they lose their shit. Entitlement, spoiled, Daddy never told them no, Mom ran over their pet frog. Whatever you want to call it.

If you didn't notice people were "dicks" with ML then you won't notice it with PL. You'll be oblivious to the fact that you're being screwed over (which is a rare case, its far more common for people to think they're being screwed over when its just the guild looking out for itself and YOU being the "dick", which is why some people are supporting the change)
The "dicks" that actually abused ML will abuse PL just the same, you either deal with it or get kicked/leave the guild just like before. Forced PL for guilds won't change that in any way. You can have wet dreams about it doing something but in reality it won't, its just a matter of time before the supporters realize it.

[Deleted]

That's up to your guild to weed those people out.

What it fixes is the distribution being decided by a few players who may or may not be toxic when making their decisions.

So you trust the same people to make good judgment calls on people (ginv, gkick) but not on loot distribution? How ...?

[Tharkkun]

If you didn't notice people were "dicks" with ML then you won't notice it with PL. You'll be oblivious to the fact that you're being screwed over (which is a rare case, its far more common for people to think they're being screwed over when its just the guild looking out for itself and YOU being the "dick", which is why some people are supporting the change)
The "dicks" that actually abused ML will abuse PL just the same, you either deal with it or get kicked/leave the guild just like before. Forced PL for guilds won't change that in any way. You can have wet dreams about it doing something but in reality it won't, its just a matter of time before the supporters realize it.

Except you won't be able to trade items until you already have a better ilevel piece. So that really won't be happening as often as you might think. Former tier item slots aren't tradeable so that's 6 slots already out of the equation. Weapons don't warforge so you either have the weapon and can trade or you don't.

Bullies won't have the same power they had.

[lappee]

Except you won't be able to trade items until you already have a better ilevel piece. So that really won't be happening as often as you might think. Former tier item slots aren't tradeable so that's 6 slots already out of the equation. Weapons don't warforge so you either have the weapon and can trade or you don't.

Bullies won't have the same power they had.

Oh they will have the same power, it'll just manifest differently.

People won't be able to trade items that are ilvl upgrades to them, the bullies will force to trade everything one can and if you don't already have ilvl from M+ etc. then they'll likely won't even take you into the raid if they have other options.

"Bullies" will be "bullies", no matter what loot system there is as long as they have a choice in the matter. If you make the entire game LFR without the option to kick and all loot non-tradeable then you've successfully beaten the "bullies" but at the cost of playerbase.

[Drusin]

there is nothing you can do to change it

Bitch until it gets changed

Do you think it won't ever get changed? If so welcome to WoW!

[Deleted]

agreed.

find me a top guild where the loot council weren't the first guys decked out. with whatever excuses they could find...

Define top, my top 1000 guild has a loot council consisting of a tank and a healer. Both are very low on loot prio. I even got all the tanking trinkets I really wanted.

[unbound]

What it fixes is the distribution being decided by a few players who may or may not be toxic when making their decisions.

What it fixes affected few while negatively impacting the many. If the guild was being that bad, you leave. There are still many, many other guilds to join. I have been in over a dozen guilds over the years, and I've only run into it once which prompted me to leave. Never had a problem finding another guild.

This is, in reality, Blizz being lazy.