Beta Key Giveaway Week 3: Winners have been selected!

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  1. #421
    I don't know. You better ask them.

  2. #422
    No ML option on any client as of today. I guess that answers the OP.

  3. #423
    Legendary! Tharkkun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taeldorian View Post
    That’s completely innacurate. I put my own gaming experience in the hands of toxic players. I did that, not master loot. I joined a random guild that had the raid progress I wanted at the time and I knew they used master loot. It was my choice to join, master loot didn’t make me do anything.

    On the other hand, if you say master loot allowed these problems to happen then what about personal loot? Back when I pugged a lot of m+/raids I was harassed a ton for loot. I’ve had players tell me I’m garbage because I didn’t give them loot they wanted because I needed it. There is very obvious harassment issues with personal loot especially within pugs which I believe the majority of people participate in. Not only that but it promotes this toxicity while also promoting loot whoring and selfishness. Another example is transmog, I’ve had people tell me to fuck off because they wanted something for transmog when it was a huge upgrade for me. That’s fine, I get it’s there loot but that’s a very selfish mentality to have.

    And now players are going to have that exact mentality going into heroic/mythic raid guilds. “What’s mine is mine everyone else can fuck off” isn’t a mentality that’s healthy or positive in an environment that should be promoting teamwork to the best degree possible. Yeah this really sounds great for the game. Exactly what it needed.

    Master loot and personal loot should be options. Neither of these should be forced on the game. Do you remember how bad forced group loot was in LFR? People would roll need on shit they didn’t need just to spite people. So, these should both be options so guilds/pugs can go with whatever option they please. If you decide to join a guild that uses ML and it’s a no name guild then any consequences that come with that are on you, not the system. It works the same way with personal loot, if you join a guild that uses PL and you end up asking people for gear they don’t need that you do and they don’t give it to you, those are consequences you need to accept as your own fault for joining that environment.
    Those same jerks you describe can be found in any guild with an actual loot system also. Have you never been harassed over winning a drop over someone else because you purchased it with DKP/EPGP or were awarded it by the council? You've never seen people throw tantrums the first time a trinket drops they feel they deserve just because they are top DPS? Personal loot won't fix those individuals who are not team players. That's up to your guild to weed those people out.

    What it fixes is the distribution being decided by a few players who may or may not be toxic when making their decisions.

    I remember group loot. Every guild would stack people to roll for each other and trade because you'd have 4-5 groups in there doing the same thing. It was turned into personal loot because people abused the system. Remember the guild that was suspended for a week for doing it?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by lappee View Post
    Except ML and loot council were fair if you were in a fair guild which large majority are, just because you didn't feel like its fair (aka "I did good, give me loot" when you died to first mechanic) doesn't mean it wasn't fair.
    Abusive players will still find ways to abuse even with forced PL, as shown multiple times in this thread.
    You can't abuse personal loot. You can be a dickhead but the loot system didn't cause that player to act that way. They would've done the same in any loot system.
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  4. #424
    Quote Originally Posted by Tharkkun View Post
    You can't abuse personal loot. You can be a dickhead but the loot system didn't cause that player to act that way. They would've done the same in any loot system.
    You could be a dickhead with ML but the loot system didn't cause that player to act that way, you can be a dickhead with PL too. So with your logic no player abused ML, they were just "dickheads".
    "Abusive" people will stay "abusive" and the loot system change won't change that.

    Forced PL for guilds just isn't a good change.

  5. #425
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    Quote Originally Posted by lappee View Post
    You could be a dickhead with ML but the loot system didn't cause that player to act that way, you can be a dickhead with PL too. So with your logic no player abused ML, they were just "dickheads".
    "Abusive" people will stay "abusive" and the loot system change won't change that.

    Forced PL for guilds just isn't a good change.
    If the loot system change causes someone to be a dickhead then they always were one. They just fooled you into thinking otherwise. Now that they can't control you their true self comes out. Just like a control freak girlfriend or boyfriend. They will be super happy and nice all the time until they are told no. Then they lose their shit. Entitlement, spoiled, Daddy never told them no, Mom ran over their pet frog. Whatever you want to call it.
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  6. #426
    Quote Originally Posted by Tharkkun View Post
    If the loot system change causes someone to be a dickhead then they always were one. They just fooled you into thinking otherwise. Now that they can't control you their true self comes out. Just like a control freak girlfriend or boyfriend. They will be super happy and nice all the time until they are told no. Then they lose their shit. Entitlement, spoiled, Daddy never told them no, Mom ran over their pet frog. Whatever you want to call it.
    If you didn't notice people were "dicks" with ML then you won't notice it with PL. You'll be oblivious to the fact that you're being screwed over (which is a rare case, its far more common for people to think they're being screwed over when its just the guild looking out for itself and YOU being the "dick", which is why some people are supporting the change)
    The "dicks" that actually abused ML will abuse PL just the same, you either deal with it or get kicked/leave the guild just like before. Forced PL for guilds won't change that in any way. You can have wet dreams about it doing something but in reality it won't, its just a matter of time before the supporters realize it.

  7. #427
    Quote Originally Posted by Tharkkun View Post
    That's up to your guild to weed those people out.

    What it fixes is the distribution being decided by a few players who may or may not be toxic when making their decisions.
    So you trust the same people to make good judgment calls on people (ginv, gkick) but not on loot distribution? How ...?
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  8. #428
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    Quote Originally Posted by lappee View Post
    If you didn't notice people were "dicks" with ML then you won't notice it with PL. You'll be oblivious to the fact that you're being screwed over (which is a rare case, its far more common for people to think they're being screwed over when its just the guild looking out for itself and YOU being the "dick", which is why some people are supporting the change)
    The "dicks" that actually abused ML will abuse PL just the same, you either deal with it or get kicked/leave the guild just like before. Forced PL for guilds won't change that in any way. You can have wet dreams about it doing something but in reality it won't, its just a matter of time before the supporters realize it.
    Except you won't be able to trade items until you already have a better ilevel piece. So that really won't be happening as often as you might think. Former tier item slots aren't tradeable so that's 6 slots already out of the equation. Weapons don't warforge so you either have the weapon and can trade or you don't.

    Bullies won't have the same power they had.
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  9. #429
    Quote Originally Posted by Tharkkun View Post
    Except you won't be able to trade items until you already have a better ilevel piece. So that really won't be happening as often as you might think. Former tier item slots aren't tradeable so that's 6 slots already out of the equation. Weapons don't warforge so you either have the weapon and can trade or you don't.

    Bullies won't have the same power they had.
    Oh they will have the same power, it'll just manifest differently.

    People won't be able to trade items that are ilvl upgrades to them, the bullies will force to trade everything one can and if you don't already have ilvl from M+ etc. then they'll likely won't even take you into the raid if they have other options.

    "Bullies" will be "bullies", no matter what loot system there is as long as they have a choice in the matter. If you make the entire game LFR without the option to kick and all loot non-tradeable then you've successfully beaten the "bullies" but at the cost of playerbase.

  10. #430
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    there is nothing you can do to change it
    Bitch until it gets changed

    Do you think it won't ever get changed? If so welcome to WoW!
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  11. #431
    Quote Originally Posted by Raldazzar View Post
    agreed.

    find me a top guild where the loot council weren't the first guys decked out. with whatever excuses they could find...
    Define top, my top 1000 guild has a loot council consisting of a tank and a healer. Both are very low on loot prio. I even got all the tanking trinkets I really wanted.
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  12. #432
    Quote Originally Posted by Tharkkun View Post
    What it fixes is the distribution being decided by a few players who may or may not be toxic when making their decisions.
    What it fixes affected few while negatively impacting the many. If the guild was being that bad, you leave. There are still many, many other guilds to join. I have been in over a dozen guilds over the years, and I've only run into it once which prompted me to leave. Never had a problem finding another guild.

    This is, in reality, Blizz being lazy.

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