Does Blizzard still think personal loot should be forced in BFA for EVERYBODY?

[Relapses]

This is, in reality, Blizz being lazy.

It's a lazy solution to a problem that isn't a problem.

Blizzard seems to have a hard on for stopping split raiding and even openly asked the community around the launch of Legion for ideas to curb its prevalence. Forced PL was one of the proposed "solutions" and it was debated with exactly the same rebuttals this thread has produced for the last 20-something pages.

Ultimately, the consensus was that it was generally a bad idea and the people it would most negatively affect -- Mythic raiding guilds -- represented such a small fraction of the playerbase that the need for loot control on a larger scale for everybody outweighed their desire to stop guilds from gaming the system.

But alas, we were wrong. Forced PL is now a thing and we're just going to have to deal with it. Why bother trying to find real solutions to problems when you can slap a fucking band aid on it and wash your hands of it? Split raiding has effectively been "solved" and the message is clear:

"Just keep grinding our stupid fucking game. We don't give a shit what you do in it as long as it keeps you subbed. Oh, and make sure you buy the next pretty pony we put up in the lootshop. "

The minority is essentially told to fuck off and deal with it while the far greater number of casual players are none the wiser as they likely never really gave a shit about ML to begin with (and, as this thread has heavily proven... mostly perceived it to be unfair anyway). Since the latter is the only demographic Blizzard cares about these days, lazy decisions like this will continue to occur.

[nnew]

I don't raid so I don't really have a stake in this, but I'm not sure why it's a good idea on Blizz's part to remove ML as an option. Sure, I've been in shitty guilds (who hasn't?) where loot systems were abused, but that was a choice. I got gear eventually and I was a lot more concerned about progression than I was about whether I had the highest ilevel in the guild. These days, everything I run uses personal loot, but ML should still be an option for guilds who plan out their optimisation that way.

[kamuimac]

It's a lazy solution to a problem that isn't a problem.

Blizzard seems to have a hard on for stopping split raiding and even openly asked the community around the launch of Legion for ideas to curb its prevalence. Forced PL was one of the proposed "solutions" and it was debated with exactly the same rebuttals this thread has produced for the last 20-something pages.

Ultimately, the consensus was that it was generally a bad idea and the people it would most negatively affect -- Mythic raiding guilds -- represented such a small fraction of the playerbase that the need for loot control on a larger scale for everybody outweighed their desire to stop guilds from gaming the system.

But alas, we were wrong. Forced PL is now a thing and we're just going to have to deal with it. Why bother trying to find real solutions to problems when you can slap a fucking band aid on it and wash your hands of it? Split raiding has effectively been "solved" and the message is clear:

"Just keep grinding our stupid fucking game. We don't give a shit what you do in it as long as it keeps you subbed. Oh, and make sure you buy the next pretty pony we put up in the lootshop. "

The minority is essentially told to fuck off and deal with it while the far greater number of casual players are none the wiser as they likely never really gave a shit about ML to begin with (and, as this thread has heavily proven... mostly perceived it to be unfair anyway). Since the latter is the only demographic Blizzard cares about these days, lazy decisions like this will continue to occur.

this minority has been negatively influencing whole game for years now spreading toxicity far beyond just mythci raiding

its good that minority god put to the corner where it belong - it was always ridiculous that minority was influencing how majority played the game

[lappee]

this minority has been negatively influencing whole game for years now spreading toxicity far beyond just mythci raiding

its good that minority god put to the corner where it belong - it was always ridiculous that minority was influencing how majority played the game

The minority has also been positively influencing the game for years now, spreading information and knowledge far beyond just mythic raiding.

That minority is also far greater than the minority that is "toxic" and "spreading toxicity", given we haven't actually seen any evidence of anyone being toxic here, just people feeling they didn't get what they thought they deserved. The two are vastly different, but you either don't want to accept it or simply don't understand the difference.

Minority always influences how majority plays the game. No matter what game you look the minority, or "pros" as people call them, are influencing how the game is played by the majority. The more knowledgeable are giving out information by guides, streams, private coaching lessons etc. and its just natural and happens everywhere, in every aspect of the world.

Again, this change does nothing good for the game and the people wanting the change are being hurt as well even if you don't know it yet.

[kamuimac]

The minority has also been positively influencing the game for years now, spreading information and knowledge far beyond just mythic raiding.

That minority is also far greater than the minority that is "toxic" and "spreading toxicity", given we haven't actually seen any evidence of anyone being toxic here, just people feeling they didn't get what they thought they deserved. The two are vastly different, but you either don't want to accept it or simply don't understand the difference.

Minority always influences how majority plays the game. No matter what game you look the minority, or "pros" as people call them, are influencing how the game is played by the majority. The more knowledgeable are giving out information by guides, streams, private coaching lessons etc. and its just natural and happens everywhere, in every aspect of the world.

Again, this change does nothing good for the game and the people wanting the change are being hurt as well even if you don't know it yet.

but is in line with other changes that prove that blizzard see guilds as nothing but toxic and needing deep complete rework.

loot system was just begining - now we will see much deeper changes starting with what they did to guilds.

its pretty obvious that PL was just a prelude to deep game changing system changes.

because blizzard has to get rid of abusement and toxicity if they want to keep people playing the game

the part about people being hurt ? how - just because you assume people will stop making guides and theorycraft ? lol ye sure - ofc they wont now that so many people are making a living from making youtube /patreon videos.

and even if they did - blizzard couldnt be more happier about it because then at least some partial "mysticism" would come back to game instead people knowing 100% what avaits them when patches land.

[lappee]

but is in line with other changes that prove that blizzard see guilds as nothing but toxic and needing deep complete rework.

loot system was just begining - now we will see much deeper changes starting with what they did to guilds.

its pretty obvious that PL was just a prelude to deep game changing system changes.

because blizzard has to get rid of abusement and toxicity if they want to keep people playing the game

the part about people being hurt ? how - just because you assume people will stop making guides and theorycraft ? lol ye sure - ofc they wont now that so many people are making a living from making youtube /patreon videos.

and even if they did - blizzard couldnt be more happier about it because then at least some partial "mysticism" would come back to game instead people knowing 100% what avaits them when patches land.

Oh, so now you have some psychic abilities to predict what Blizzard does and why on top of knowing how to keep people playing the game. Lawl

People who wanted PL loot, aka people who didn't get loot via masterlooter, won't get spots in raids anymore because the guilds would rather take people who are actually good for the progress. Its that simple.
I never said anyone would stop making guides or theorycraft, I dunno how bad your reading comprehension is but if thats what you got from my message then I'd say its in the negative scale.

If people wanted "mysticism" then they would stop reading guides and watching spoiler videos. Yet they all watch and read because they don't want mysticism, they don't want to have to go around the world figuring out what to do in a quest or wipe to a mob because they don't know what buttons to press - quite the opposite.
I'd say your prediction/psychic skills are just as bad as your reading comprehension.

[Deleted]

If people wanted "mysticism" then they would stop reading guides and watching spoiler videos. Yet they all watch and read because they don't want mysticism, they don't want to have to go around the world figuring out what to do in a quest or wipe to a mob because they don't know what buttons to press - quite the opposite.

There are such games up. I played one for any years. They have a very dedicated fan base of around ... well ... let's just say 100 chars (with multilogging) is considered a "wooooo effect".

[Relapses]

this minority has been negatively influencing whole game for years now spreading toxicity far beyond just mythci raiding

its good that minority god put to the corner where it belong - it was always ridiculous that minority was influencing how majority played the game

Way to completely miss the point, dude. It's not so much the minority influencing the majority as it is a really lazy fucking way to solve a problem that isn't a problem. There is literally no motivation Blizzard would have to make this change outside of diminishing the returns from split raiding. Instead of looking for solutions which flat out remove one of the founding tenants of loot distribution which have been in the game for fourteen fucking years, they go for the least involved approach possible.

Adding insult to fucking injury, the Devs refuse to even acknowledge the change as if they're silently trying to guage community response before coming out with some half assed justification once progression raiding in BfA starts.

[Deleted]

Azerite Armor

Ion admitted they've made a mistake with Azerite gear and the current plan is to roll out a hotfix that will take effect with weekly resets next week that makes Azerite gear tradable like other pieces of items

One stupid change reverted at a time. Many more to go.

[Progenitor Aquarius]

Can add on like lootcouncil block personal loot if raid leader uses it?

[PaladinBash]

For pugs, it's the only way. The only people who didn't use it for pugging were ninjas and rubes.

For guilds, I think it should always be your call.

[MidnyteTV]

For pugs, it's the only way. The only people who didn't use it for pugging were ninjas and rubes.

For guilds, I think it should always be your call.

Precisely. If players want to play in a guild that has Personal loot, join one or get off your lazy ass and start your own PL guild.

If a guild wants to use DKP/EPGP/Loot council, that's their choice.

[Deleted]

I got a bis azerite trait shoulders in our first HC clear.

Had they dropped on ML the bros would probably give it to one of themselves.

I am eternally grateful for PL.

[Celestial476]

Bout ready to just let my sub run out for BFA. Two weeks in and out of clearing Heroic Uldir twice I have gotten one drop, and it was something I won the week before so I gave it away.

Because of my RNG every /roll I made for someone else's item they were giving away was too low and lost out. If I was in a guild that did something like EPGP I would actually probably have some things worth my time.

At this point I might as well just only run M+ and call it a day.

[Morae]

Example.
I did normal uldir. Got a ring from mother.
I did heroic uldir. Got same ring from mother, ofc heroic ilvl.
I did mythic uldir. Got again same ring from mother with mythic ilvl.

Had we been using ML, some of those rings would ahve gone to someone else and be more useful. Instead, they all went to me, each time giving onl some upgrade. Yes... upgrade, but would have been far better to spread most(if not all) across raid rather than give them all to me. I could not trade any of them. Now I got 385 ring, so next time I should be able to trade... unless warforge/titanforge... lol.

Personal loot is shit. It has made our raid loot distribution weird and wastes more time.

[shadowmatrix]

For pugs, it's the only way. The only people who didn't use it for pugging were ninjas and rubes.

For guilds, I think it should always be your call.

Guild groups were some of the worst ninja looters in the game between the cliques and guys trying to impress "females". Nothing like being new to a raid team and knowing you were several weeks away from getting any loot.

[Deleted]

Guild groups were some of the worst ninja looters in the game between the cliques and guys trying to impress "females". Nothing like being new to a raid team and knowing you were several weeks away from getting any loot.

I’m terribly sorry for the world you live in. Feel free to look for the real world though. It’s much better.

[Drutt]

Guild groups were some of the worst ninja looters in the game between the cliques and guys trying to impress "females". Nothing like being new to a raid team and knowing you were several weeks away from getting any loot.

Find a better class of guild. Hang with scumbags, experience scumbaggery. I've literally never experienced that problem with any of the guilds I've been in, because I vet guilds before I join.

[Cwimge]

I'm just going to keep going with my Tinfoil hat theory: They fucked up coding so bad for Azerite Gear that they can't hand it out via ML so they removed it.

Alternative idea. Ion got ninja'd and is throwing a fucking tantrum

- - - Updated - - -

I didn't get lucky with personal loot in raids & I have a bad weapon. But I still think personal loot is the best thing that happened to me.

This is coming from someone who was in the loot council for years. Now I no longer have to pay attention on who gets what. Even my guild decided to throw away loot council for BFA all together because now we can focus more on understanding fights.

Your guild is garbage if a loot council is negatively Impacting your performance to the point where NOT doing it is making you improve

[Imperial]

Forced personal loot is dog shit. Might unironically be the worst change blizzard has ever made to this game.