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  1. #301
    Quote Originally Posted by therealbowser View Post
    Garithos intentionally was trying to get the blood elves to die, and they followed him loyally despite the fact he was a raging asshole of a human. Even if they did ignore a direct order (or did they? I don't even recall), executing their entire race because they worked with the naga
    He gave them an order. He should've obey it, or die, but he chose to collaborate with an enemy instead. He and his people deserved execution.

  2. #302
    Quote Originally Posted by Tackhisis View Post
    He gave them an order. He should've obey it, or die, but he chose to collaborate with an enemy instead. He and his people deserved execution.
    I bet your Potential Paladin did way more to deserve execution during leveling.
    "To the ordinary, we are unknowable. Fallen, corrupted; rightly feared. You cannot understand our origins, our motives. The dawning realization, that we are not fallen... we are ascended!"

  3. #303
    Quote Originally Posted by JustRob View Post
    First War, started by the Horde... Second War, started by the Horde... All of the faction conflicts during Cata, started by the Horde... Battle for Azeroth, started by the Horde...

    Why can't the Alliance be the aggressors for once? Would be nice if the Horde wasn't always shoehorned into the role of bad guys and Alliance into the role of good guys.
    Because the Horde are the bad guys.

  4. #304
    Banned Mehrunes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tackhisis View Post
    He gave them an order. He should've obey it, or die, but he chose to collaborate with an enemy instead. He and his people deserved execution.
    The Scourge was the enemy. And the order did not say squat about the Naga.

  5. #305
    Mechagnome Whitedragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by therealbowser View Post
    Do you know why Sylvanas was in Stormheim? Was it to form "lasting peace" with the Alliance? No, it was to imprison val'kyr so that she could continue building her undead armies at the cost of human lives. If we're arguing this with the context of knowing what was going on, Genn (coincidentally, perhaps?) had made the correct choice in attacking her, because if he had ignored her, she would have been a far greater threat to the Alliance in the long run.
    I feel It's also worth adding every time this comes up that in addition to what ever evil she would have done by enslaving the Val'kyr, there is also the ramifications of that action, where in Odin decides to not give us the Aegis because we mortals stole one of his prized subjects from him and sided with Helya to do it no less... Yes that's right Sylvanas may have almost doomed us all for her own petty greed.

  6. #306
    Quote Originally Posted by Whitedragon View Post
    I feel It's also worth adding every time this comes up that in addition to what ever evil she would have done by enslaving the Val'kyr, there is also the ramifications of that action, where in Odin decides to not give us the Aegis because we mortals stole one of his prized subjects from him and sided with Helya to do it no less... Yes that's right Sylvanas may have almost doomed us all for her own petty greed.
    I am sure you have proof for such outrageous claim.


    Anyway, if Odyn was such a nice person that he would refuse to give us an artifact to stop Legion invasion just beucause his ego was bruised, I am sure we would get a proper Halls of Valor raid. Maybe they could have even written Helya as someone sympathetic in the game.
    Last edited by Verdugo; 2018-07-11 at 11:04 PM.
    "To the ordinary, we are unknowable. Fallen, corrupted; rightly feared. You cannot understand our origins, our motives. The dawning realization, that we are not fallen... we are ascended!"

  7. #307
    Mechagnome Whitedragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    I am sure you have proof for such outrageous claim.


    Anyway, if Odyn was such a nice person that he would refuse to give us an artifact to stop Legion invasion just beucause his ego was bruised, I am sure we would get a proper Halls of Valor raid. Maybe they could have even written Helya as someone sympathetic in the game.
    Proof that he would be mad the we stole one of his greatest warriors and worked with someone who he hates to do it? Would you be ok if I stole your wife with the help of your mortal enemy for my own personal gain, to then come back and ask hay I really need a car would you let me have yours? Hell even if he would forgive us, why risk it just for Sylvanas's gain? Even If we did ended up raiding him for it in the end the story is implied that we just barely beat the legion as is, why are we disposing of allies that helped us get that narrow victory?

  8. #308
    Quote Originally Posted by Whitedragon View Post
    Proof that he would be mad the we stole one of his greatest warriors and worked with someone who he hates to do it? Would you be ok if I stole your wife with the help of your mortal enemy for my own personal gain, to then come back and ask hay I really need a car would you let me have yours? Hell even if he would forgive us, why risk it just for Sylvanas's gain? Even If we did ended up raiding him for it in the end the story is implied that we just barely beat the legion as is, why are we disposing of allies that helped us get that narrow victory?
    Odyn doesn't care.

    If anything he'd look at it and go "Well now, that is some unique thinking... VALOR!!!!!!!!!!!." Then stroke his lava beard before going "You, Val'kir over there, you're now the leader. Bring me more valourous souls!".

    I mean Odyn was so mad he encouraged and laughed when Horde were killing Alliance right at his door step.

  9. #309
    Banned Mehrunes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whitedragon View Post
    I feel It's also worth adding every time this comes up that in addition to what ever evil she would have done by enslaving the Val'kyr, there is also the ramifications of that action, where in Odin decides to not give us the Aegis because we mortals stole one of his prized subjects from him and sided with Helya to do it no less... Yes that's right Sylvanas may have almost doomed us all for her own petty greed.
    And yet Skovald was still eligible for a challenge for Aegis after he:
    1. sided with the Legion
    2. cheated his way through every trial
    3. still failed the trials because we beat him to the punch

    And then Odyn cheered as Horde and the Alliance continued killing each other because it was VALORous.

    There's jack shit indicating that Odyn would not give us the Aegis because of Sylvanas. Especially since the players were acting on behalf of Class Order Halls for the most part in Legion.


    Quote Originally Posted by Whitedragon View Post
    Hell even if he would forgive us, why risk it just for Sylvanas's gain? Even If we did ended up raiding him for it in the end the story is implied that we just barely beat the legion as is, why are we disposing of allies that helped us get that narrow victory?
    Because chronology of events exists. There was no disposing of our allies at the time of Sylvanas plot, because Odyn revealed himself to us for there to be an alliance with him that could be forged only at the end of Stormheim.

    Also, he replaced Helya with Eyir already Why can't he replace Eyir with another Val'kyr? That way he'd still have a source of Valarjar, while the Forsaken would become immortal thanks to Eyir and be a better force against the Legion. It's a net gain. Hell, he doesn't even need to replace Eyir herself, since he already has boatloads of normal Val'kyr and they can already make Valarjar.

  10. #310
    both factions are the aggressors because they both have leaders that have voices in their head telling them that after a few decades of war, a few decades of constantly working together saving the world and knowing there are more threats to come just isn't enough basis for peace.

    i kinda imagine wow as the reverse of 20th century IRL: initially all the soldiers struck to kill, hated their enemy, etc. then after working together a long time, i bet half the time a horde and alliance patrol run into eachother now they maybe sabrerattle a bit but just let eachother go or aim the fireballs over their heads to scare em off.
    Last edited by Him of Many Faces; 2018-07-12 at 09:50 AM.

  11. #311
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    1. except if you read the book ALOT of people agree with him on using azerite for peaceful means, and he literally thinks of a bunch of peaceful things then once he hits "how many can i kill" he backs up
    2.except this literally has nothing to do with real world politics, im alright to ignore with you, man these last 24 hours i have added more people to ignore then the last like three or four months
    3. HE IS THE LITERAL SPEAKER FOR THE PLANET, AND HAS BEEN PROVEN TO BE THIS IS NOT SOME RANDOM DUDE, ALSO THE GUARDIAN, MEDIVHS STUDENT IS ALSO SAYING STOP
    4. Lol umm Silithus is VERY, VERY far from horde encampments... The closest base is actually an alliance camp but ok buddy... whatever you want. and again its still neutral territory that was owned by the cenarion circle, but whatever bullshit you wanna fucking make bud
    5. except it is? this is neutral territory, the other faction has a right to know whats going on in neutral territory, and if the other faction decides to hide it from you, guess what dude THATS AN ACT OF WAR
    So you seem to have this idea that the horde is allowed to do whatever it wants but then if the alliance punishes them for such behavior its the alliances fault.
    You are arguing with a guy who thinks it's the nightelves fault for not letting orcs deforest ashenvale so they can build more spikes on their mud huts.

    Dude hits bedrock then digs with even more fervor to come up with things like "alliance is not the boss of meeee111!!!!!"

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by aarrok View Post
    If you really think about it, Alliance are the root cause for EVERYTHING. It all starts with the Dranei. They become corrupted by Sargares. Velen and his bunch flee and are being chased thru the cosmos by the Burning Legion. The come to Draneor. Sargares turns the orcs against the dranei to kill them where KJ and Arcamond couldn't. Eventually the dranei leave draneor and crash in azeroth. Who do they befriend? ALLIANCE!

    Then you have Medivh (Human-ish/Alliance) who get corrupted by sargares and makes contact with guldan, who then opens a portal to Azeroth. We all know what happens from there.

    You have the night elves, who 10,000 years prior, get enticed by the power sargares offers...then BOOM...they open a portal in the nightwell to summon demons. We then have the sundering. Night elves are part of ALLIANCE.

    Oh, don't forget about Arthas. Another Alliance member.

    So if you think about it, Alliance and their factions kinda are the bad guys in reality. Everything that has happened has stemmed from an Alliance factions actions.
    There is a cinematic in antorus that shows sargeras taking the blood oath of the horde.
    Blood Elves were based on a STRONG request from a poll of Asian players where many remarked on the Horde side that they and their girlfriends wanted a non-creepy femme race to play (Source)

  12. #312
    It's either the orcs or the Forsaken. The Forsaken cause they are evil and with the orcs it's complicated. It's part manipulation, part their own bloodlust.

  13. #313
    They don't seem as evolved. More animalistic. So.. more aggressive.

  14. #314
    Quote Originally Posted by slime View Post
    They don't seem as evolved. More animalistic. So.. more aggressive.
    The interesting part is that both are degenerations? Degradations ? Of Titan constructs. However as far as corruption goes humans are the result of corruption while orcs are more natural occurances.

    I guess it helps in the sense that while orcs are from a massive ass stone construct humans are from titanforged
    Blood Elves were based on a STRONG request from a poll of Asian players where many remarked on the Horde side that they and their girlfriends wanted a non-creepy femme race to play (Source)

  15. #315
    Quote Originally Posted by Minikin View Post
    The interesting part is that both are degenerations? Degradations ? Of Titan constructs. However as far as corruption goes humans are the result of corruption while orcs are more natural occurances.

    I guess it helps in the sense that while orcs are from a massive ass stone construct humans are from titanforged
    Yeah, pretty much. It makes the orcs more nature based and the humans more void based.

    There are similarities between the descendants of Grond, the Breakers, who include ogres and orcs, and the titan-forged. Grond was created by Aggramar, but in a very different manner to the titan-forged: Aggramar focused elemental energies into a mountain, bringing it to life, while the titan-forged were made from a great chunk of Azeroth's crust without elemental energies. Both Breakers and titan-forged eventually became flesh, the former because of the Spirit energy of the Sporemounds and the latter because of the Old Gods' Curse of Flesh.

  16. #316
    Quote Originally Posted by iamthedevil View Post
    Yeah, pretty much. It makes the orcs more nature based and the humans more void based.
    Yeap. I feel they missed a big opportunity to introduce this in game when an orc player would fight aggrammar. They left a hint of it as one of the artifact relics he dropped is of a sporemound piece.

    On another note it's hilarious that right here in these forums there was a poster who fought tooth and nail, claiming that humans are not at all a part of azeroth and total Invaders as they are just Titan creations. (made literally from the planet lol).
    Blood Elves were based on a STRONG request from a poll of Asian players where many remarked on the Horde side that they and their girlfriends wanted a non-creepy femme race to play (Source)

  17. #317
    I hate these posts. You wanna know why Horde are always the aggressors? Because Blizz wants the horde to be bad ass and awesome and some sort of stupid shit. In the end, The horde are the ones who start shit. Deal with it. Except Stormhiem, That was all alliance.

  18. #318
    Mechagnome Ooid's Avatar
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    The Horde are the aggressors because they have been the invaders from the start. Push them back into Outland where they belong. Bunch of misfits, sins against nature, aliens, and traitors.

  19. #319
    Quote Originally Posted by JustRob View Post
    ...Would be nice if the Horde wasn't always shoehorned into the role of bad guys and Alliance into the role of good guys.
    It's not shoehorning when it's just facts. Traditionally, the Horde is made up of Monstrous races... the "bad guys"... don't be surprised when you are labeled the bad guy at every turn. You signed up for it the moment you choose Horde.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    No fucking way. The worst idea since democracy.

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