Beta Key Giveaway Week 3: Winners have been selected!

Page 27 of 27 FirstFirst ...
17
25
26
27
  1. #521
    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    Y'all need to be less transparent.
    Whats up y'all.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by element zero View Post
    Y’all really need to think of new insults.
    Quote Originally Posted by element zero View Post
    Tell me where I'm wrong, doofus
    The irony.

  2. #522
    Quote Originally Posted by mysticx View Post
    So yeah, the Alliance did something naughty out there, but since the Horde was going to be picking a fight at the earliest opportunity anyway (They always do, there's always some lame excuse), i'm glad they did, it was the one time the Alliance took any initiative since i don't know when.
    Well duh, even when Alliance does something tiny bit shady, it always turns out they were right like the perfect lawful good protagonists they are.

    This is what happens when Blizzard tries to please the Alliance fans, and of course they will always want more and wont stop until Horde is either destroyed or stomped into dirt.

  3. #523
    The Lightbringer mysticx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    3,612
    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    Well duh, even when Alliance does something tiny bit shady, it always turns out they were right like the perfect lawful good protagonists they are.

    This is what happens when Blizzard tries to please the Alliance fans, and of course they will always want more and wont stop until Horde is either destroyed or stomped into dirt.
    The problem is that i'm not really pleased at all, why is the Alliance only ever responding to the Horde? Let the Alliance do something shady (Without "You blundered into doing the right thing, thank heavens for that!" afterwards), or strike first without a prepared excuse, "They'll attack us anyway" seems a good reason for a fight to me (How many sucker-punches must the Alliance take before they get the message?), as cartoonish-evil as the Horde is these days, (l)awful good is boring too, i'm hoping (Against my better judgment, but hope springs eternal) that the whole Teldrassil-affair awakens some actual fighting spirit in at least some of the Alliance leaders, if the Horde is that dead-set on war, let's give them one! >_<

  4. #524
    Quote Originally Posted by mysticx View Post
    The problem is that i'm not really pleased at all, why is the Alliance only ever responding to the Horde? Let the Alliance do something shady (Without "You blundered into doing the right thing, thank heavens for that!" afterwards), or strike first without a prepared excuse, "They'll attack us anyway" seems a good reason for a fight to me (How many sucker-punches must the Alliance take before they get the message?), as cartoonish-evil as the Horde is these days, (l)awful good is boring too, i'm hoping (Against my better judgment, but hope springs eternal) that the whole Teldrassil-affair awakens some actual fighting spirit in at least some of the Alliance leaders, if the Horde is that dead-set on war, let's give them one! >_<
    Thats because contrary to popular belief, most Alliance players LOVE being the human lawful good empire with friends that cant do bad deeds. Thats why Blizzard is afraid to show anything shady on the Alliance side and when its shown to the horde, they wont acknowledge it because they like playing the good guys only.

  5. #525
    The Lightbringer mysticx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    3,612
    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    Thats because contrary to popular belief, most Alliance players LOVE being the human lawful good empire with friends that cant do bad deeds. Thats why Blizzard is afraid to show anything shady on the Alliance side and when its shown to the horde, they wont acknowledge it because they like playing the good guys only.
    It’s a shame that Blizz goes along with that rather childish outlook so much, both factions could do with a bit more grey to them, as much as the Alliance wallows in “Holier than thou”, the Horde is self-destructively evil, the story would be well served if both factions moved a bit towards the middle, they can both stay at their current side of “Neutral”, but being a bit less extreme wouldn’t go amiss...

  6. #526
    Who cares. It's not like any city other than Org or Stormwind mean anything. Everything just gets put into those 2 cities, and the rest of them are ignored.
    If what doesn't kill you, makes you stronger. Then I should be a god by now.

  7. #527
    Give me WC3 HD, Blizz! The Stormbringer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    ...location, location!
    Posts
    8,023
    Quote Originally Posted by Pandragon View Post
    Who cares. It's not like any city other than Org or Stormwind mean anything. Everything just gets put into those 2 cities, and the rest of them are ignored.
    I find Ironforge much less laggy and more peaceful than Stormwind. It could use some updates, though...

    Avatar by Ely

  8. #528
    Quote Originally Posted by mysticx View Post
    It’s a shame that Blizz goes along with that rather childish outlook so much, both factions could do with a bit more grey to them, as much as the Alliance wallows in “Holier than thou”, the Horde is self-destructively evil, the story would be well served if both factions moved a bit towards the middle, they can both stay at their current side of “Neutral”, but being a bit less extreme wouldn’t go amiss...
    Being reasonable doesn't inflame faction-related passions and, in the context where both factions should by all rights be drained of manpower and resources, doesn't start wars.

  9. #529
    Quote Originally Posted by mysticx View Post
    It’s a shame that Blizz goes along with that rather childish outlook so much, both factions could do with a bit more grey to them, as much as the Alliance wallows in “Holier than thou”, the Horde is self-destructively evil, the story would be well served if both factions moved a bit towards the middle, they can both stay at their current side of “Neutral”, but being a bit less extreme wouldn’t go amiss...
    They were to a degree when Varian was in charge and Jaina was in full rabies mode. Unless Anduin dramatically changes or is killed off it’s gonna be hard for the Alliance to veer off from being the golden choir boy faction. They should put Maiev in charge of the Night Elves since she actually has some balls and the current ruling couple are fucking idiots, give Mekkatorque more screen time, have Genn do more reckless shit and uhh yeah.. kill Anduin.

  10. #530
    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    Being reasonable doesn't inflame faction-related passions and, in the context where both factions should by all rights be drained of manpower and resources, doesn't start wars.
    i think it's more 'reasonable' as in the various characters aren't all dripping with cartoon levels of stupid in their actions or pointlessly jumping into over-the-top antics. Like Garrosh going orc hitler or this handling of azerite... or basically anything Tyrande has done... since vanilla...

  11. #531
    Quote Originally Posted by element zero View Post
    Maiev in charge of the Night Elves since she actually has some balls and the current ruling couple are fucking idiots, give Mekkatorque more screen time, have Genn do more reckless shit and uhh yeah.. kill Anduin.
    All this requires decent writers who don't have an openly stated preference. They had no problem with Super Mega Aspect Thrall of Doom, but Malf can only blind and run away.
    (Removed for Violation of the Avatar & Signature Guidelines)

  12. #532
    The Lightbringer Steampunkette's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    I come from the land of Ice and Snow.
    Posts
    3,356
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    On the last part. I'll toss the bits about Eyir and the like for another thread, but I would recommend checking out the bits with the Tidesage in BFA if you haven't already. The war campaign handles necromancy with much more nuance than Cataclysm and addresses much of what I've said. My positions are two:
    1. That the Forsaken as a political faction are evil, more so than any other playable race. Discussing their nature is moot, since they're just undead humans.
    2. That any undead are inferior to the living based on the CDev and Chronicle statements already gone over, the treatment of undeath in the story as a horrible curse to which death is preferable and their reduced capacities on both the emotional and physical level and their inability to cohabit with other races without massive changes to their state (Be it having Eyir on call or the Light).
    Sorry it took me so long to get back to this!

    So. We know that they've got reduced emotional capacity... to some degree. They're clearly still -capable- of feeling love and passion and joy, even though it's comparatively muted, or had been. Or at least that's what we'd been told during the CDev asks.

    But.

    We also see them EXCITED at the fields of Arathi. On hearing his name read, Parqual, the half-mummified paper-skinned Forsaken -rushes- his ass over to stand in front of his daughter wearing a smile "As big as (Calia's) heart felt". The Felstones glomped onto their mother so tightly they nearly killed the woman with their overwhelming love for her. When his daughter saw her teddy bear on the table Parqual chuckled at the simple delight of seeing his daughter and her childhood toy. When she asked if she could hold his hand, Joy, Love, and Hope flashed across his face, unhindered by the dead and rigid flesh that conveyed the emotions.

    Meanwhile Elsie, for whom there was no one to meet, was sharing in the joy of the rest of the Council's happiness. And when Anduin waved at her, she was so filled with giddy joy. "Pleasure rushed through her" when Anduin waved back. And when Anduin gave her a tiny bow, she laughed brightly in surprise.

    So which is the truth? That they can't feel joy or pleasure? Before the Storm seems to have stepped all over that idea as we're explicitly told what the Forsaken feel in the moment. We're shown them laughing and hugging and gently holding hands. Or waving like lunatics and giggling like little girls when someone important waves back or offers a tiny bow. Is it muted? Then why the happy chuckle at something so small as a girl wanting her childhood toy? Elsie Benton was not a Priest. She didn't use the light or flood herself with it on the regular to build up her emotions back toward "Normal" as the CDevs remarked was possible.

    How can you even share in someone else's joy if you're unable to feel it? Even if your own joy is only -muted- rather than gone, sharing in someone else's joy is a muted happiness to begin with, so wouldn't it barely register?

    Is it a retcon? A Mistake? Do the Forsaken gradually adjust over time to a degree that their emotional threshholds of Joy or Pleasure are lowered so much that even the tiny bit they feel is interpreted as "Filled with Joy"?

    The fact is that the devs didn't say they can't feel positive emotions. Only that they've had "Flashes" of positive emotion so rarely since they became undead. Maybe it has more to do with nothing good really happening in the Undercity? 'Cause we're shown forsaken feeling -prolonged- delight as they spend time with their loved ones that were torn from them by political alliances, here.

    They clearly experience joy at little things, like waving at a king or seeing their daughter happy about a teddy bear, or sharing in the simple joy of a family reunion. Maybe there's just not many "Little Things" to enjoy in the Undercity, much less big things?

    Hell... Velcinda is described as a genuinely caring person with a kind heart long before the Highlands. And she took that kindness and viewed her "Dark Gift" from Sylvanas as a second chance, not a curse. And she describes the other forsaken as:

    Many other Forsaken, such as her friend and fellow Governor Parqual, seemed to miss their loved ones as much as she did. Others seemed lukewarm, and still others didn’t care at all. Some were even…evil. What had happened, to her, to them, to have such differing personalities and mind-sets? It was one of the mysteries about being Forsaken.
    Many care, some kind of care, some don't care, and -some- were evil. So being Forsaken on it's face doesn't -make- you evil by it's nature, though some people do become evil or just let their evil nature out. Like Mr. Lobotomy back in Vanilla.

    And... really... isn't the difference between a Curse and a Gift one's mindset? One's perspective? Can't those things change, in time?
    Last edited by Steampunkette; 2018-07-17 at 03:20 PM.
    When you are accustomed to privilege, equality feels like injustice.

  13. #533
    Both sides are justified if people stop pulling random events from wow's past out of the arse. The issue isn't Sylvanas attacking the alliance, the issue is she attacked Teldrassil/Darkshore and put the torch to women/children/innocents. It would be completely different if she had attacked a military outpost. But the Horde literally rolled into suburbia and started taking out families. THAT is never justified, idc if you are Horde or Alliance.

    Anyway, now that I settled that...move along folks. Nothing to see here anymore except children trying to one up each other by bringing up past events that have no direct impact on the current storyline.
    Kthxhugsbye

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •