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  1. #41
    Legendary! Tharkkun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nagassh View Post
    Blizzard have explicitly said it's not to cater to top 100 guilds doing split runs. It's completely retarded to design the game around those as well - that's the kind of thinking that gets tier sets removed from LFR or makes it so that there's one save between heroic and mythic.

    Both changes that would "help" the top 100s not feel over worked.
    Both changes that would be absolute cancer to have to deal with for the other 99% of the playerbase.
    Like I said. Top guilds abused the loot system with split runs. There was no catering to them at all.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Yggdrasil View Post
    If you are so toxic that you throw way people and possibly friends for a cosmetic reward then you need to look in the mirror and say.. my god.. why was I this way.. why did I do what it took to make this change happen..

    The same logic should have you thinking to never bring someone that has it either then. It could go to them and not be able to trade it..

    Jesus you people are so horrible to each other..
    This just reinforces why Blizzard make the decision they did. Some people are so out of touch with reality sometimes when loot drops.
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  2. #42
    Over 9000! Yggdrasil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tharkkun View Post
    This just reinforces why Blizzard make the decision they did. Some people are so out of touch with reality sometimes when loot drops.
    Exactly. What is sad is it comes from the people that walk around and stick there chest out saying they are in it for the challenge, skill, and loot is secondary that suddenly when loot doesn't get handed out the way they want it to go into this dark place of not wanting to deal with people, hate, and just straight up against everything they pretended they were all about for a long time.

  3. #43
    It was fun progressing antorus and tomb on hc with guild, i was only warrior and i was constantly 10 ilvls behind because i was unlucky and rarely got anything with pl on and most of the items i would get arent upgs due to bad stats. Antorus 4 set i got last. And that was a month after ,in friends pug and only cuz he got it and traded me. When i used to raid hardcore with ml ,loot could be assigned properly to who will benefit it most and rarely went to waste. With pl there willbe plenty of discarded items cuz you get it but shit stats and cant trade
    Last edited by Alhazred; 2018-07-16 at 07:26 AM.

  4. #44
    of the Dark Star Tinytalon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yggdrasil View Post
    If you are so toxic that you throw way people and possibly friends for a cosmetic reward then you need to look in the mirror and say.. my god.. why was I this way.. why did I do what it took to make this change happen..

    The same logic should have you thinking to never bring someone that has it either then. It could go to them and not beable to trade it..

    Jesus you people are so horrible to each other..

    I was kinda borderlinely with you on some things you said until now. As someone who really likes mounts and used to raid mythic/old heroic with that as a carrot, I'd be very iffy on inviting someone who disappeared randomly without a word during progression for something that drops an untradable mount as PL. Maybe when most of the group has it already and if we have time before expansion launch to get it for everyone, sure. Hop right in, imho. But when there are still many people who need it, I'd rather let those people who were there for the progression to get it. I feel like they've earned it a little bit more than the guy who disappeared without a word and came back after the progression was already done. I mean, if he was such a good friend, he could've atleast told others that he can't play or even after he returns, he could've explained himself were he not able to give a notification before-hand. If you just disappear randomly during progression and come back after it's done, I fully understand why people would be iffy with inviting him for something like that until everyone else or atleast most of the people have it already.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Tinytalon View Post
    I was kinda borderlinely with you on some things you said until now. As someone who really likes mounts and used to raid mythic/old heroic with that as a carrot, I'd be very iffy on inviting someone who disappeared randomly without a word during progression for something that drops an untradable mount as PL. Maybe when most of the group has it already and if we have time before expansion launch to get it for everyone, sure. Hop right in, imho. But when there are still many people who need it, I'd rather let those people who were there for the progression to get it. I feel like they've earned it a little bit more than the guy who disappeared without a word and came back after the progression was already done. I mean, if he was such a good friend, he could've atleast told others that he can't play or even after he returns, he could've explained himself were he not able to give a notification before-hand. If you just disappear randomly during progression and come back after it's done, I fully understand why people would be iffy with inviting him for something like that until everyone else or atleast most of the people have it already.
    Yep, somehow people who wanted to reward guild loyalty over being irresponsible and unreliable are "horrible", but people who ditch guilds, stop showing up with no warning, get few pieces of loot, achievement and/or mount then quit are not "horrible"? The second type of people are the bane of every guild, when the guild is going through the hardest part like content drought or difficult lots of wipes boss these people leave them in need because they only care about their own "fun" and "they play how they wanna".

    WOW community got irreversibly tainted with pug mentality which is "I play for myself and my own loot, I join when I want and I leave as I please", zero consideration for other people despite pve from mythic+ to raiding is an exercise in teamwork and cooperation.

    And it's not even about punishing those, it's about rewarding the people who are examples of maturity and human decency. Who will be there when you need them and who will warn you if they can't come due to irl. Who will keep coming even if they personally don't need anything but other guildies still do. Take for example Gul'dan mount - you still need 20 people even if you can kill him with less, because we once killed him with 19 and no mount dropped. So if we want to give these to newer guild members that didn't play with us during Nighthold, we rely on getting 19 other people with the mount to have the run happen.

    Unfortunately what the change will facilitate in BFA is helping more pricks to exercise their attitude of "I got mine, now cba".

    Especially now that expansion is at an end it's hilarious how many of these "I quit 6 months ago" types wake up from their slumber and want a last minute cutting edge. And exactly the same happened in WOD. Unfortunately guilds require continuity to function, so if everyone was so smart to save themselves 90$ and come back when everything is nerfed, there would be no guild to return to. Guilds that "take a break" out of necessity due to roster issues, rarely revive and rebuild, and most commonly just die out.

    People keep being nostalgic about the community of old, but it only existed because the game didn't have yet all the tools it has now to empower the anti-social element that only plays for themself. Years and years of diminishing importance of guilds and realms and increasing the convenience of pugging, solo play and personal loot and we are where we are now.

  6. #46
    Of course

    Personal loot is good.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Blorgo View Post
    If I were in a guild that didn't distribute loot in a way that has the raidteam benefit the most from itemdrops, I'd just leave.
    Bears repeating. I'm out on this whole expansion because of this loot change. It's such a waste of time to raid in a normal guild (i.e. not top 50 tryharding) when so much loot will just vanish out of the group every few weeks when the trial goes MIA.

    It will kill so many guilds because core raiders will be disillusioned with their slower progress.
    Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler (Blue Tracker)
    We don't think burst is a problem in PvP right now.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by stupid11 View Post
    Bears repeating. I'm out on this whole expansion because of this loot change. It's such a waste of time to raid in a normal guild (i.e. not top 50 tryharding) when so much loot will just vanish out of the group every few weeks when the trial goes MIA.

    It will kill so many guilds because core raiders will be disillusioned with their slower progress.
    The game will survive.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by trajandreps View Post
    The game will survive.
    In one shape or the other. I mean ... Aion and Rift are still technically alive ...

    RIP Totalbiscuit and his awesome video about WoW from the early days, when he praised it for the social aspects of it's players it helped improve. It's becoming more and more a solo-oriented experience for entitled monkeys and whales. Wonder who will supply the top goods to those RoI-deliverers when progress raiders will dry out. Will Blizz offer mythic boss loot in the shop? Or rather via random loot chances from some form of chests bought in the shop for RL money?
    WoW is in Whales/Dolphins/Minnows model
    Is WoW the video version of Progress Quest yet?
    Both above are links with information about WDM model and what Progress Quest is.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Tsharna View Post
    In one shape or the other. I mean ... Aion and Rift are still technically alive ...

    RIP Totalbiscuit and his awesome video about WoW from the early days, when he praised it for the social aspects of it's players it helped improve. It's becoming more and more a solo-oriented experience for entitled monkeys and whales. Wonder who will supply the top goods to those RoI-deliverers when progress raiders will dry out. Will Blizz offer mythic boss loot in the shop? Or rather via random loot chances from some form of chests bought in the shop for RL money?
    Why do you keep bringing this guy up in every other thread?
    Quote Originally Posted by Breezy Badger View Post
    Fucking joke of a moderator you are.
    Quote Originally Posted by Veshx View Post
    To be fair, this whole sites moderators are a joke.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Tsharna View Post
    In one shape or the other. I mean ... Aion and Rift are still technically alive ...

    RIP Totalbiscuit and his awesome video about WoW from the early days, when he praised it for the social aspects of it's players it helped improve. It's becoming more and more a solo-oriented experience for entitled monkeys and whales. Wonder who will supply the top goods to those RoI-deliverers when progress raiders will dry out. Will Blizz offer mythic boss loot in the shop? Or rather via random loot chances from some form of chests bought in the shop for RL money?
    OK, since you're twisting, the game will survive AND thrive even if, and perhaps ESPECIALLY IF, all "serious mythic environment" guilds quit.

  12. #52
    Legendary! Tharkkun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tsharna View Post
    In one shape or the other. I mean ... Aion and Rift are still technically alive ...

    RIP Totalbiscuit and his awesome video about WoW from the early days, when he praised it for the social aspects of it's players it helped improve. It's becoming more and more a solo-oriented experience for entitled monkeys and whales. Wonder who will supply the top goods to those RoI-deliverers when progress raiders will dry out. Will Blizz offer mythic boss loot in the shop? Or rather via random loot chances from some form of chests bought in the shop for RL money?
    Lootboxes are starting to become illegal in many countries and that's P2W so you're really trying hard to reach for anything. People will continue to earn things the way we always do. By playing the game. One guild dies, another pops up. As populations drop there's less guilds but there will always be people raiding.

    Rift died 3 months after their expansion came out. They just haven't come to terms with it yet.
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  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Alright View Post
    Why do you keep bringing this guy up in every other thread?
    Because he was on point and died recently which made me rewatch that vid, that changed my view on gaming years ago? Appreciate your awareness of my notes from weeks and months ago though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tharkkun View Post
    Lootboxes are starting to become illegal in many countries and that's P2W so you're really trying hard to reach for anything.
    Did you ever read anything about tools for GMs to alter % of impactful events based on their decision or automatically detected chains of events or even behaviour changes? Like ... maybe how Wargaming has automated tools that decrease your chances to win a game if you win too often (and the opposite as well)?

    Is it a far fetch to think about the possibility that how much you spend on the game (which is an information Blizzard obviously has) could impact something currently inaccurately described as RNG? That whales could magically have better chances with drops? Or even how their skills/items proc? That Blizzard could have automated tools in place to detect unwanted player behaviour (i.e. spending drop, burnout, intent to quit) and let "RNG" kick in to influence the player to stay, spend more, etc.?

    Blizzard is not the warm, cozy and fluffy uncle who will fight for your well being. They will do what is needed to deliver financial results with best RoI. Automated player behaviour analysis which serves as a trigger for automated player behaviour influencing tools is relatively cheap to develop and implement. They have all the data they need. They can test it live as they please. Data scientist paradise.

    You believe what you want. I believe what I want.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tharkkun View Post
    People will continue to earn things the way we always do. By playing the game. One guild dies, another pops up.
    Do we earn the things by playing the game? Like there is this dude in my guild who has &#&%!%&$ luck with drops. He sweeps all the mounts and mog from old raids. He sweeps all the bis items with his bonus rolls. All the while noone else is even close to his luck. He is also very prone to quick decisive decisions, like quits or breaks or logouts. MAYBE what I am writing about is already in place but you are incapable of seeing it?

    Neo: What truth?
    Morpheus: That you are a slave, Neo. Like everyone else you were born into bondage. Into a prison that you cannot taste or see or touch. A prison for your mind.
    Slave to "RNG" that is not really "random".
    Last edited by Tsharna; 2018-07-19 at 08:51 AM.
    WoW is in Whales/Dolphins/Minnows model
    Is WoW the video version of Progress Quest yet?
    Both above are links with information about WDM model and what Progress Quest is.

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